Enough farting around on Iran & Nukes

[earth_as_one]

IS "persuaded"?

Are you referring to the brutal 1953 CIA sponsored coup in Iran which overthrew the democratically elected government, installed a pro-US puppet dictator and led to almost 30 years of violent oppression, where the SAVAK secret police would snatch people in the middle of the night, torture and execute people with impunity? Is the the persuasion you reference?

I wonder how happy you'd be if your government was persuaded the same way.

BTW, the Shah's brutal regime was eventually toppled by a popular revolt and when the dust settled, Iran was an Islamic Theocracy, ruled by clerics. There is a good chance that if the CIA did not topple the Iranian democracy, Iran wouldn't be such a pain in the arse now.

 

[mentalfloss]

Blowback after blowback after blowback

 

[Goober]

''On December 18, a day before the truce officially expired, Hamas declared the end of the cease-fire.[85] More than 20 rockets were launched from Gaza into southern Israel on that day.[86]

On December 19, Hamas refused to enter talks to renew the six-month truce and Hamas spokesman announced that it would not extend the cease-fire.[87][88] Palestinian sources said that Hamas wanted to renew the truce, but only on improved terms – a complete opening of the border crossings with Israel''

and because,

''Gaza’s economy has been destroyed since then, under siege from Israel which only allows the bare minimum of humanitarian assistance to enter in a bid to force an end to rocket attacks. Latest UN figures showed that unemployment has risen to 49 per cent and that half of Gaza City’s residents receive water only once a week for a few hours. Homes are also without electricity for up to 16 hours a day.
“The factions’ duty after the calm expires is to protect the people, defend the Palestinian people and confront any aggression,” said Mr Barhoum. “The Zionist enemy bears the responsibility for the end of calm.”



From a Times article in your link/

Gopher
The discussion and rebuttal was regarding a number of topics

Time line of events was one - mentalfloss had not provided accurate information. I post credible links, that is why you can find information on Gaza after the War - But while unemployment is up, so is smuggling, food, weapons, medicines and material to build a Mall.

Another point was Mentalfloss using Turkey as an example of democracy - Not valid -

Lastly - Mentalfloss stated Israel had no Legal Right under International law to defend itself - Again he was grossly in error.

Now over to you - The only fault you find with my points are unemployment etc in Gaza. Well that is the end result of War.

Lastly for you - I take it that you must agree with the points I brought forward as there was no rebuttal of the Facts I presented, vice the misinformation presented by Mentalfloss. Glad to see you agree.

 

[petros]

Time line of events was one - mentalfloss had not provided accurate information. I post credible links, that is why you can find information on Gaza after the War - But while unemployment is up, so is smuggling, food, weapons, medicines and material to build a Mall.

Why do they have to smuggle the essentials?

 

[Goober]

Reading these posts from time to time, I think it is rather naive to say the least, to believe that a preemptive attack on Iran could be contained and not lead to a broader conflict. It is a dangerous delusion. Thankfully those on these forums doing the speculating are basement generals!

Anyone with a lick of common sense realizes that there would be spill over - Hezbollah is heavily armed, well entrenched in fortified bunkers, equipped with longer range missiles that will reach deep into Israel

Syria may or may no engage the Israeli's - But I think not. They will as always provide safe passage for weapons to Hezbollah

Iranian Military-
Iran Military Guide

http://csis.org/program/burke-chair-irans-military-and-nuclear-capabilities

And Iran would have agents if you wish to call them that - These would attempt to disrupt and attack mainly civilian sites in the west - Everything from Pipelines to refineries to embassies.

The question would be - How long would it last - what impact economically as that would be high on the list - disruption of oil supplies and creation of fear. That is why they would in my mind be terrorists.

Oil thru the Persian Gulf would be disrupted - But for how long -

Map of Oil - Has Pipelines

Map - Oil and gas fields, oil and gas pipelines, refineries, export terminals and US military facilities - The Middle East - Information

Lastly - Whether I am sitting in the basement or upstairs having a coffee Iran with a Nuke capability is clearly destabilizing to a region that is always on the brink of War - It would lead to a Nuke Arms race in the Region.

Lastly - The President and the Ayatollah that run the place are at loggerheads as to who is the most powerful - and they are bat**** crazy.

That to me is sufficient reason to ensure they do not have a nuclear weapons capability. They want Security Guarantees - The West will provide them along with asking that they assist in settling the Israeli - Palestinian Wars.

They (Iran) want leadership & presence in the Middle East - Fine - the 2 options I mentioned are easily attained. And without being seen to caving to Western demands.

Why do they have to smuggle the essentials?

Why do they have to smuggle missiles - Why do they have as their belief the complete destruction of Israel

 

[petros]

Why do they have to smuggle missiles - Why do they have as their belief the complete destruction of Israel

Still doesn't explain why they NEED to smuggle food and medicine.

Where do they smuggle homemade missles from? How many homemade rockets have actually hit Israel proper and not some illegal settlement oupost that is actually in Palestine? Are Israelis that piss poor of geographers?

 

[Goober]

Still doesn't explain why they NEED to smuggle food and medicine.

Where do they smuggle homemade missles from? How many homemade rockets have actually hit Israel proper and not some illegal settlement oupost that is actually in Palestine? Are Israelis that piss poor of geographers?

Yes it does - You know as well as i with a fee import system weapons, better capability would be high on the agenda list of what Santa Hamas wants for Christmas. They would then do the same thing that Hezbollah has done. Build bunkers, reinforced to protect weapons systems, and then start another War with Israel. Except this time there would be more Israeli causalities. You know that as well as i do.

 

[Just the Facts]

Still doesn't explain why they NEED to smuggle food and medicine.

Where do they smuggle homemade missles from? How many homemade rockets have actually hit Israel proper and not some illegal settlement oupost that is actually in Palestine? Are Israelis that piss poor of geographers?

Lots of Rockets have hit Israel. Most recently mortars yesterday. Are mortars home made? Where is this Palestine you speak of?


Israeli wounded as Gaza militants launch mortar shells into Negev - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
The man, the head of security in one of the kibbutzim in the Eshkol regional council surrounding Israel's border with the coastal enclave, was reportedly hit in the neck by a piece of shrapnel outside his home. He was airlifted to Soroka hospital in Be'er Sheva.

Councils: Gaza threat growing
Regional councils situated near the border with Gaza released a joint statement on Wednesday following yet more mortar and rocket attacks on the area from Gaza.
“Escalation is only a matter of time,” the statement said. “The threat in the area is constant and growing. We hope that the government will know how to relate to this reality before formulating policy for the southern line of conflict for 2011. The government must realize that this will be an active line of conflict for the foreseeable future.”

Yes it does - You know as well as i with a fee import system weapons, better capability would be high on the agenda list of what Santa Hamas wants for Christmas. They would then do the same thing that Hezbollah has done. Build bunkers, reinforced to protect weapons systems, and then start another War with Israel. Except this time there would be more Israeli causalities. You know that as well as i do.

O come on. They are the victims of Israeli aggression, all they really want is peace, but Israel just wants their land. Didn't you get Hamas' message of peace?

YouTube - Hamas: Kill Christians and Jews "to the last one"

 

[petros]

Lots of Rockets have hit Israel. Most recently mortars yesterday. Are mortars home made? Where is this Palestine you speak of?

Palestine has been around all long long time.

Home made mortars are super easy. Ever been to a fireworks show? It's just a light weight cannon.
Here is some American "good ol' boys" teaching their kids how to be terrorists.
YouTube - Winter Bowling Ball Mortar Firing

Cities hit
Ashdod · Ashkelon · Beersheba
Gedera · Kiryat Gat · Kiryat Malakhi
Netivot · Sderot · Ofakim · YavneRegional Council areas hitHof Ashkelon
(Karmia · Netiv HaAsara
Yad Mordechai · Zikim)
Eshkol
(Nir Oz · Nirim · Yesha)
Sha'ar HaNegev
(Kfar Aza · Nahal Oz · Nir Am)
Sdot Negev
(Sa'ad)
Merhavim

Settlements hit

Atzmona · Dugit · Elei Sinai
Gadid · Ganei Tal · Katif
Kfar Darom · Morag
Netzarim · Netzer Hazani
Neve Dekalim · Nisanit
Rafiah Yam · Slav

Point them out on this map of the West Bank and put all of us evil "Jew haters" in our place.

Fullsize: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Westbankjan06.jpg

 

[Spade]

Saw the RT ad on TV today. Thought it would be interesting to see what their view is.
YouTube - US Will Start WW3 By Attacking Iran (Chossudovsky)

 

[petros]

Saw the RT ad on TV today. Thought it would be interesting to see what their view is.
YouTube - US Will Start WW3 By Attacking Iran (Chossudovsky)

I hope you like rice cabbage rolls because China and Russia will make their move on the US.

 

[Spade]

Prefer mine stuffed with wild prairie strawberries.

 

[earth_as_one]

JTF: Limited and strictly controlled food, clean water and basic medicines. No wonder people build tunnels.

 

[petros]

Prefer mine stuffed with wild prairie strawberries.

Sour or sweet cabbage? Wild strawberry & cottage cheese pyrohy would be delish but I for me wild strawberry and cabbage is a potentially dangerous combination.

Prefer mine stuffed with wild prairie strawberries.

Sour or sweet cabbage? Wild strawberry & cottage cheese pyrohy would be delish but for me wild strawberry and cabbage is a potentially dangerous combination.

 

[Goober]

Saw the RT ad on TV today. Thought it would be interesting to see what their view is.
YouTube - US Will Start WW3 By Attacking Iran (Chossudovsky)

Spade a couple of questions

Has Iran been fully cooperating with the IAEA - i would say in some critical areas it would be No


Have Both sides in this been willing to give and take - i would say No - Recent time article noted how the Obama administration fine tuned the bush agenda to push Iran back.

Same with Iran - They have not negotiated a reasonable agreement on this.

I look at the past staements of their hard liners and as many would call moderates and they have 1 common thread - Destroy Israel. Check it out - Public knowledge

Lastly - In my opinion Iran is seeking to have a nuclear weapons capability - That was decided in 1988 or 89 after - during the Iraq -Iran War. Public knowledge

Do you agree or disagree with Iran having a Nuclear Weapons capability. - Yes or No - and whatever insight, and you have that, that you can bring to the discussion

Do you believe that a Nuclear capable Iran is or is not a threat. Yes or No and whatever insight, and you have that, that you can bring to the discussion.

If Iran is permitted to have a Nuclear weapons capability, will it lead to other States within the Middle East starting their own programs to go Nuclear Weapons capable. Yes or No and whatever insight, and you have that, that you can bring to the discussion.


Would Iran with a Nuclear weapons capability destabilize and area that is far from stable.

Lastly - Stating Israel should give up their nukes will not fly anywhere. Both of us know that.

 

[petros]

Do you agree or disagree with Iran having a Nuclear Weapons capability. - Yes or No

Everyone knows the answer is "not yet".

 

[earth_as_one]

Saw the RT ad on TV today. Thought it would be interesting to see what their view is.
YouTube - US Will Start WW3 By Attacking Iran (Chossudovsky)

As soon as one side uses nukes.... even bunker busting mini-nukes, the other side has a right to reciprocate with nukes, including primitive ones, which don't scale down so well...

It might take Iran weeks to years, but they'll build nukes if they are attacked with them. I doubt NATO's combined forces could stabilize the region in time or that China and Russia will remain passively on the sidelines.

 

[Goober]

Everyone knows the answer is "not yet".

Petros - You are more than capable of answering the questions I posed to our brother Spade. Go for it.

 

[petros]

Petros - You are more than capable of answering the questions I posed to our brother Spade. Go for it.

Will do.

 

[Goober]

Will do.

Thank you