The Complete Wikileaks Thread(All threads merged here!)

[mentalfloss]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Kosovo:

An important question, raised by Eric Rouleau, is whether “Serbian atrocities had reached such proportions as to warrant breaking off the diplomatic process to save the Kosovars from genocide.” He observes that “The OSCE’s continuing refusal to release the report [on the observations of the KVM monitors from November until their withdrawal] can only strengthen doubts about the truth of that allegation.” As noted earlier, the State Department and Tribunal indictments provide no meaningful support for the allegation—not an insignificant fact, since both sought to develop the strongest case.

What about the OSCE report, released since Rouleau wrote?

As noted, the report makes no serious effort to support the allegation, indeed provides little information about the crucial period. Its references in fact confirm the testimony of French KVM member Jacques Prod’homme, which Rouleau cites, that “in the month leading up to the war, during which he moved freely throughout the Pec region, neither he nor his colleagues observed anything that could be described as systematic persecution, either collective or individual murders, burning of houses or deportations.” The detailed reports of KVM and other observers omitted from the OSCE review undermine the allegation further, as already discussed.

A Review of NATO’s War over Kosovo


Yugoslavia:

There were atrocities... After the bombing. The way it's presented is: the atrocities took place and then we had to bomb to prevent genocide, just inverted.

Because Yugoslavia had mentioned the Genocide Convention and the U.S. did sign the Genocide Convention (after forty years), it ratified it, but it ratified it with reservation, saying "inapplicable to the United States". So in other words, the United States is entitled to commit genocide, therefore and that was the case that the U.S. Justice Department of President Clinton's brought to the World Court and the Court had to agree. If a country does not accept World Court jurisdiction, it has to be excluded, so the U.S. was excluded from the trial, on the grounds that it grants itself the right to commit genocide. Do you think this was reported here?

On the NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia

----


Time to wakey wakey!

 

[petros]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

The primary objective of the Afghanistan war was to prevent the Islamist terrorists from using that country as a home-free base in which to plan terror attacks on the west and train terrorists for that purpose. That has been an astounding success.........Everything else, as laudable as it may be, is secondary.

Noooooo. AH and the pipeline that runs right beside are the main objectives of the Afghan mission.

 

[Colpy]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Kosovo:

An important question, raised by Eric Rouleau, is whether “Serbian atrocities had reached such proportions as to warrant breaking off the diplomatic process to save the Kosovars from genocide.” He observes that “The OSCE’s continuing refusal to release the report [on the observations of the KVM monitors from November until their withdrawal] can only strengthen doubts about the truth of that allegation.” As noted earlier, the State Department and Tribunal indictments provide no meaningful support for the allegation—not an insignificant fact, since both sought to develop the strongest case.

What about the OSCE report, released since Rouleau wrote?

As noted, the report makes no serious effort to support the allegation, indeed provides little information about the crucial period. Its references in fact confirm the testimony of French KVM member Jacques Prod’homme, which Rouleau cites, that “in the month leading up to the war, during which he moved freely throughout the Pec region, neither he nor his colleagues observed anything that could be described as systematic persecution, either collective or individual murders, burning of houses or deportations.” The detailed reports of KVM and other observers omitted from the OSCE review undermine the allegation further, as already discussed.

A Review of NATO’s War over Kosovo


Yugoslavia:

There were atrocities... After the bombing. The way it's presented is: the atrocities took place and then we had to bomb to prevent genocide, just inverted.

Because Yugoslavia had mentioned the Genocide Convention and the U.S. did sign the Genocide Convention (after forty years), it ratified it, but it ratified it with reservation, saying "inapplicable to the United States". So in other words, the United States is entitled to commit genocide, therefore and that was the case that the U.S. Justice Department of President Clinton's brought to the World Court and the Court had to agree. If a country does not accept World Court jurisdiction, it has to be excluded, so the U.S. was excluded from the trial, on the grounds that it grants itself the right to commit genocide. Do you think this was reported here?

On the NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia

----


Time to wakey wakey!

Ahh...perhaps you need to focus.

Where, exactly, did I argue the value of NATO's involvement in Kosovo????

Try to stay on subject........which is Assange, the traitorous enemy of our nation, the guy that is putting our soldiers at risk, the scumball that is setting Islamists on human rights workers in Afghanistan.......

You know, the point of the pitchfork thing........

Are we back there now????

 

[CUBert]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Are you out of your ****ing mind? Even ignoring the silly, incredibly niave idea that all diplomacy should be done in the open, (insert rolled eyes here), this man is a sociopathic moron.......a deadly enemy.

Read the link, for God's sake! Ezra Levant

The man is setting up good people to be murdered.

He is setting up our soldiers to be killed.

He needs to die....he is our enemy....by that I mean yours, as well as mine.

Death to Assange!

Obvious trolling

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

As I understand, Assange has documents on hold that are otherwise incriminating and will be released if he dies (namely, you know, all the ''accidents'' that tend to happen on highways in Europe)

So instead of murdering him, western governments are probably going with the next best option in harassing him and have him thrown into jail.

The truth shall set you free.

I am, as usual, with CDN Bear on this one. The charges are a joke. But so (obviously) is Swedish law.

I'm also with Flanagan. Warn him publicly, then, if he continues, hunt him down, pop him once in the head, problem solved.

He is offering aid and comfort to the enemy.........when you become so weak you can't handle dangerous espionage practised in the open......well, you have huge problems.

A little later......

I had not realized the depth of his depravity.

Death to Assange.




Ezra Levant

The quicker we kill him, the happier I am. Flanagan was perfectly correct. He puts Canadian soldiers at risk.........that outside of the fact he has marked our allies for murder.

If the above is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, I would shoot Assange myself, given the opportunity........

Death to Assange. Now.

Death cancels everything, but truth.

Ironically, he lives in secret. As does the entire Wikileaks organization. Where's their transparency? Why aren't they publishing their employee list with names and addresses? lol

Apparenly what's good for the goose, for the gander....not so much.

The sun's energy warms the world. But when you focus it through a magnifying glass it can start a fire.

You might be able to claim he was "facilitating a change in diplomacy" if he applied his standards to all but he doesn't: he targets western nations. That weakens his selected nations, not changes everyone, and the enemies of his targets generally aren't kindly disposed to Canadians, as we do share the same core values as the Brits and Americans.



I don't know about this. I haven't seen anything particularly humbling in the "revelations". So Hilary Clinton is on record for authorizing spying at the UN. Big deal. Do you honestly believe directives from Moscow, Tehran, Beijing and other capitals are any different? If you do, you need to gain some perspective...



No, the public won't demand more transparency: some members of the media MIGHT. So far this whole Wikileaks thing has been much ado about nothing. And yes there are very valid reasons for espionage and top secret diplomacy. Not every country is friendly and honest about their intentions... and it is the RESPONSIBILITY of our gov't to discover if those intentions pose a danger to the people of Canada.Sometimes (not always but sometimes) just showing those other nations what you know in private can allow them to find a way to save face and back away from those actions. If you don't understand this, you have no place in a discussion on international affairs or regarding other nations.



I don't think I'm usually quite as emphatic as Colpy but its hard to think of any other way to treat Assange. His actions endanger the lives of others. These aren't accidents, these are intentional actions with no regard for the danger he may be placing people in. At the very least, he deserves a long stretch in a cell with no contact with the outside world.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

I hate to say it but I 100% agree with this. Wikileaks is a great thing. We need to be informed when governments give millions away to people that don't exist and fund both sides of the war. The illegitimate war we fight for no reason at all. 92% of Afghans don't even know about 9/11. It's all a farce. There are no enemies. Both sides are run by the same people. It's war for war's sake.

Imagine all the people living life in peace.

There are plenty of cables on the other diplomats. And they've only released 600 out of 250,000. I'm sure he's not just picking sides here. The stronger point though, is that the wealthier nations must be more responsible because they have more influence. You remember what Spidey's uncle said!



There's no threat. If you would like to discuss a serious and legitimate threat then go for it. Until then, you're basically saying we should kill someone who has caused no legitimate harm to any of us except for possibly damaging our leaders reputations. It's a bit nuts to put their rich butts on some moral high ground while we collectively throw away democracy here.



Again, this viewpoint is absolutely ludicrous and has no foundation in reality. Oh, well, except for the reality a few deceptive politicians would have you believe.

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Ahh...perhaps you need to focus.

Where, exactly, did I argue the value of NATO's involvement in Kosovo????

I wasn't replying to your post.

 

[Kreskin]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Why isn't he just charged with possession of stolen property? He's broken enough laws to make this easy. How about aiding and abetting? Treason?

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Noooooo. AH and the pipeline that runs right beside are the main objectives of the Afghan mission.

The pipeline was a go in 1998. No war required.

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

More coincidences...

WikiLeaks faced a fresh threat to its survival on Saturday as the online payment service PayPal cut off the account used for donations to the whistle-blowing website.
WikiLeaks is already fighting to stay on the Internet. It switched its domain to Switzerland because its original web address was shut down by a US provider, as it continues to release thousands of classified US diplomatic cables.
At the same time Sweden has issued an amended international arrest warrant for WikiLeaks’ founder Julian Assange, who is believed to be in Britain, and The Times newspaper reported he could be arrested next week.


Read more: WikiLeaks fighting for survival after PayPal cuts off donations link

​

 

[ironsides]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

BERLIN – WikiLeaks has lost a major source of revenue after the online payment service provider PayPal cut off its account used to collect donations, saying the website is engaged in illegal activity.

Rape, treason lots of international charges.





WikiLeaks loses major source of revenue - Yahoo! News

 

[Goober]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Kosovo:

An important question, raised by Eric Rouleau, is whether “Serbian atrocities had reached such proportions as to warrant breaking off the diplomatic process to save the Kosovars from genocide.” He observes that “The OSCE’s continuing refusal to release the report [on the observations of the KVM monitors from November until their withdrawal] can only strengthen doubts about the truth of that allegation.” As noted earlier, the State Department and Tribunal indictments provide no meaningful support for the allegation—not an insignificant fact, since both sought to develop the strongest case.

What about the OSCE report, released since Rouleau wrote?

As noted, the report makes no serious effort to support the allegation, indeed provides little information about the crucial period. Its references in fact confirm the testimony of French KVM member Jacques Prod’homme, which Rouleau cites, that “in the month leading up to the war, during which he moved freely throughout the Pec region, neither he nor his colleagues observed anything that could be described as systematic persecution, either collective or individual murders, burning of houses or deportations.” The detailed reports of KVM and other observers omitted from the OSCE review undermine the allegation further, as already discussed.

A Review of NATO’s War over Kosovo


Yugoslavia:

There were atrocities... After the bombing. The way it's presented is: the atrocities took place and then we had to bomb to prevent genocide, just inverted.

Because Yugoslavia had mentioned the Genocide Convention and the U.S. did sign the Genocide Convention (after forty years), it ratified it, but it ratified it with reservation, saying "inapplicable to the United States". So in other words, the United States is entitled to commit genocide, therefore and that was the case that the U.S. Justice Department of President Clinton's brought to the World Court and the Court had to agree. If a country does not accept World Court jurisdiction, it has to be excluded, so the U.S. was excluded from the trial, on the grounds that it grants itself the right to commit genocide. Do you think this was reported here?

On the NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia

----


Time to wakey wakey!

Yes I agree that it is time for you to wake up, shake your head, do you hear anything. Do you think the massacres /genocide would have stopped if NATO had not acted?

 

[Bar Sinister]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Are you out of your ****ing mind? Even ignoring the silly, incredibly niave idea that all diplomacy should be done in the open, (insert rolled eyes here), this man is a sociopathic moron.......a deadly enemy.

Read the link, for God's sake! Ezra Levant

The man is setting up good people to be murdered.

He is setting up our soldiers to be killed.

He needs to die....he is our enemy....by that I mean yours, as well as mine.

Death to Assange!

Alright, I'll bite. Can you name a single instance of a Canadian soldier who has been killed or injured due to Wikileaks?

 

[ironsides]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

Alright, I'll bite. Can you name a single instance of a Canadian soldier who has been killed or injured due to Wikileaks?

We will never know. I say pop Assange and any of his staff who do not see the what they are doing wrong.

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

BERLIN – WikiLeaks has lost a major source of revenue after the online payment service provider PayPal cut off its account used to collect donations, saying the website is engaged in illegal activity.

Rape, treason lots of international charges.

WikiLeaks loses major source of revenue - Yahoo! News

The charges are rape and molestation. He has not been charged with treason or any other international charges.

The women involved agree the sex was consensual. They only complained to the police about him not using a condom. The Swedish prosecutor charged Assange with rape. According to the prosecutor, only a lawyer can understand the intricacies of Sweden's rape laws and therefore the women are not qualified to determine if they were raped. So even though the women don't believe they were raped and agree the sex was consensual, the prosecutor has decided Assange should be charged with rape.

This has to be one of the most clear cases of trumped up charges I've seen. I doubt Assange would have been charged with rape or harassed if he wasn't releasing thousands of leaked US diplomatic cables.

While the person who leaked the information to wikileaks may have broke US law, Assange has not.

Meanwhile the denial of service attack against wikileaks website is an illegal activity.

 

[ironsides]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

The charges are rape and molestation. He has not been charged with treason or any other international charges.

The women involved agree the sex was consensual. They only complained to the police about him not using a condom. The Swedish prosecutor charged Assange with rape. According to the prosecutor, only a lawyer can understand the intricacies of Sweden's rape laws and therefore the women are not qualified to determine if they were raped. So even though the women don't believe they were raped and agree the sex was consensual, the prosecutor has decided Assange should be charged with rape.

This has to be one of the most clear cases of trumped up charges I've seen. I doubt Assange would have been charged with rape or harassed if he wasn't releasing thousands of leaked US diplomatic cables.

While the person who leaked the information to wikileaks may have broke US law, Assange has not.

Meanwhile the denial of service attack against wikileaks website is an illegal activity.

Anyone associated with releasing the documents are also considered coconspirators in the commission of the crime. So the state is charging Assange with rape, there are some crimes against individuals that once you are accused will go to trial no matter if the accuser changes their mind of not.


Updated: The Swedish prosecution office has now issued a notice saying that they are charging Assange with rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. He has been "detained in his absence". Here's the notice:

The matter concerning Mr. Assange

The Matter concerning Julian Assange has been detained in his absence charged with rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. Mr Assange had appealed the detention decision issued by Svea Court of Appeal.
Today the Supreme Court has taken a decision not to grant Julian Assange leave to appeal. If the Supreme Court is to hear an appeal, leave to appeal must first be granted. Leave to appeal is only granted if the case is assessed as being very important to the application of the law or if other extraordinary reasons apply.
The arrest warrant is based on the detention decision that has now been examined by all three legal instances. The additional information requested by the British Police concerns the penalties for the other crimes, in addition to rape, that Julian Assange was arrested for. This information will be supplied immediately. The previous arrest warrant stands.

WikiLeaks' Julian Assange Is Accused of Rape (Updated)
​

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

If Assange broke US law, I'm sure he would have been charged by now. Instead he has been charged with some ridiculous trumped up charges. I'd say the Swedish criminal justice system is also on trial here.

If publishing leaked documents is a crime, then all the news sources which have published these documents as well as people who quote them in forums like this are just as guilty as Assange.

 

[s_lone]

Re: The rape case against Wikileaks' Julian Assange

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2AYANb0P9Fs/TPZoIWezyCI/AAAAAAAACCo/wVCuZ7ylxGk/s1600/moral+relativism.jpg

Alright, I'll bite. Can you name a single instance of a Canadian soldier who has been killed or injured due to Wikileaks?

Careful there! Colpy might put you on his list of people who should be assassinated.

 

[CHUCKMAN]

Of wikileaks, julian assange, and assassination threat-as-joke of tom flanagan an ame





POSTED RESPONSE TO A COLUMN IN TORONTO'S GLOBE AND MAIL

There is nothing new in learning anything which confirms that Tom Flanagan is a nasty piece of work.

The man is pure, unadulterated American Right-Wing, a thrust-the-imperial-flag-into-the-chests-of-those-working-against-America’s-sacred-interests man, without a trace of decent traditional conservative.

He literally represents in Canada everything you find in that ugly mob which includes Dick “kill the turbanhead scum” Cheney, Tom "the money launderer" DeLay, Sarah “the idiot witth super-sized glands” Palin, Newt “I divorced my wife dying of cancer” Gingrich, and all the other charming Washington folks who work tirelessly for war and imperial interests. The influence and the money for promoting Right-Wing values come up alongside the same pipelines which carry Alberta's crude and natural gas South.

I have never understood why the Globe gives him column-inches periodically, other than the well-know fact that he has been adviser to Harper, truly the most divisive politician in living memory and a man who already has succeeded in corroding away like spilled battery acid a great deal of Canada’s past wonderful international reputation.

Flanagan's columns have never demonstrated anything beyond the academic quality or interest of just another second-rate social scientist. He is in academic terms a truly undistinguished thinker.

But there is nothing second rate or undistinguished about his visceral instincts for plotting against and trying to destroy traditional Canadian values. The man is an instinctive predator, a perfect hunting-mate for Harper.

I note the comment that Flanagan’s comment about killing Assange was made in the form of a joke, but then only rather sick people make such jokes or laugh at them.

Shouldn't people who say such things be treated as terrorists, or at least as people having made a criminal threat?

 

[CHUCKMAN]

Why is julian assange picking on the united states? - a british think-tank hack demon





POSTED RESPONSE TO A COLUMN BY GEORGE GRANT IN THE TELEGRAPH

"Why is Julian Assange picking on the United States?"

Had I known what is written at the bottom of the piece - that George Grant is Global Security & Terrorism Director at The Henry Jackson Society, a Foreign Policy Think Tank based in London - I would have read George Grant’s words with less sense of perplexity about the man not knowing what he is talking about.

For clearly, he does not.

But in the United States where there are many think-tanks it is typical of their directors, associates, and fellows to write nonsense.

Think-tanks in the U. S. are basically propaganda mills styling themselves as institutions of higher learning.

They are in most cases funded by right-wing extremists with lots of money.

And their "fellows" consist of educated hacks who have loyally served right-wing causes in government, receiving their places as comfortable sinecures, much as some of the sinecures in America’s gift that have been showered upon Tony Blair as reward for his bloody work with Bush.

The “fellows” always remind me of actors on television commercials wearing white lab coats and carrying clipboards, letting viewers assume they are doctors advising them to buy some over-the-counter headache remedy.

I should have thought it was obvious that Assange, as someone running a whistle-blower internet site, takes gratefully the significant material offered him. He did not hack American government computers to get the stuff: his supplier or suppliers did. He may not even know who the person supplying him is.

I should have thought it was also highly likely that were some juicy inside material to come from Russia or Israel, Assange would be happy to run it. But then we are not very likely to see that coming from such tightly-controlled and secretive governments, are we?

As far as Grant’s underlying assumption about a focus on America, please consider that America’s military now spends more annually than all the other governments on the planet combined.

Consider also that the American intelligence apparatus now consists of about 16 agencies, and their spending is thought to exceed $80 billion a year.

Add to those considerations that since World War II America has fought a huge number of dirty colonial wars – Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq – killing literally millions of people for no good purpose and has participated in countless coups and overthrows of legitimate governments, including democratic ones – Iran, Chile, Guatemala, and others – and you do get a real sense of what Lord Acton said follows as we approach absolute power.

Grant’s piece is just a slightly disguised ad hominem attack, and a rather silly one. It contains no analysis whatsoever. So I guess Grant may return to his think-tank office this morning and lean back in his swiveled leather chair, gazing out the window and dreamily thinking he has earned his salary for this month fighting the good fight for America’s interests.

 

[CHUCKMAN]

Is wikileaks a front for the cia or mossad? A journalist asks and immediately dismiss





POSTED RESPONSE TO A COLUMN BY RICHARD SPENCER IN THE TELEGRAPH

"All bizarre and nonsensical conspiracy theory of course."

It is not at all clear why you should say that. The "of course" only emphasizes the lack of analytical basis for your total dismissal.

Especially when one considers that in the end you yourself suggest a theme to the material.

"Ultimately, they put the onus on Middle Eastern countries to explain themselves. The cables are America’s own explanations. Neither Iran nor many of its Arab friends and enemies like being held to account overmuch."

In our own lifetimes, we have learned of many dark operations more impressive than the selected release of some not-all-that-secret documents, many of them having release dates of not too many years in the future. The term “conspiracy theory” is now consistently used to disparage those who are genuinely puzzled about the official explanations of certain big events.

Yes, we have the paranoid extreme, but that extends into the mainstream too, even into politics.

In the end you must judge major news events by the standards of the late I.F. Stone. You must read different versions and explanations and make comparisons and weightings. You must judge the purport of the material itself, what it is intended to say or not say.

We live in a shadow world as never before in human history with vast intelligence establishments working day and night and a press now reduced to a small number of owners who have their own reasons for giving slants to affairs or even completely misrepresenting them.

Truth is perceived infrequently, but there are immensely well-financed establishments busy “getting out the story” and even creating it in some cases. To say otherwise is to admit to extreme naiveté or perhaps dishonesty.

When was the last time a paper like your Telegraph or even the New York Times did some serious investigative journalism for readers? Especially where the earth-shaking matters are concerned, rather than mother’s milk stuff like the abuse of parliamentary expenses. Almost never.

Where were you with Blair’s countless lies? Bush’s lies and absurdities? We lived through a set of events in which, after the greatest peace march in history, Blair managed to twist the truth and lie his way into doing something against the overwhelming sense of the British people. And the press pretty well let it happen.

We only have a few genuine investigative journalists in the world, and they include notably Seymour Hersh and Robert Fisk. But even their work must be subject to evaluation. They can have things planted on them, and they make mistakes.

The WikiLeaks material is undoubtedly authentic, but that does not at all exclude an underlying purpose in its release.

It is a well-known practice of intelligence agencies to give large bits of genuine material, none of it too compromising, in order to get either an important piece of intelligence in return or to "bury" some damaging deception like a fish hook planted in a minnow.

The CIA used to brag of having a huge house organ whose keys could be played to create the sense of a Bach fugue of seeming news. It was talking about all the publications, both compliant and duped, in which it could plant a story and have it reverberate ultimately as a convincing event.

I’m not sure whether WikiLeaks itself falls into the compliant or duped category, but the nature of the material, the main themes plus the many important things undoubtedly missing, say something important to those listening carefully.

I am completely underwhelmed by the content of the military WikiLeaks, both this time and previously.

Very little there that well-informed people did not already know. Yes, of course, the juicy tidbits about so-and-so said are fun, and so they are meant to be, but they are not all that informative.

I am sure there are countless lies and atrocities contained in the universe covered so far by WikiLeaks, but they are not in the material released.

The idea that no one knows where Assange is also strikes me as slightly ridiculous in this age of massive intelligence operations and the trampling of individual rights in the name of fighting terror.

If you think otherwise because of Osama bin Laden, you are rather late in learning he has been dead since the bombing of Tora Bora. The United States has kept him alive, as it were, for a focus in its insane War on Terror.

Cui bono?

The US looks like an innocent victim, just guilty of some unpleasant gossip here and there. Who wouldn't know that? Israel gains support for an attack on Iran.

The leaks serve Israeli-Pentagon interests.

And do so in a convincing, seemingly disinterested way.

These leaks also serve America's now cancerously-swollen intelligence apparatus in seeking more repression and secrecy within American society.

Your off-hand dismissal is unfair and unwarranted.