Interesting. So do the existing building codes or historical commision say they can't build there then?
Dunno.. not a big fan.
Anti_Islam protests victory for extremists?
- Thread starter Machjo
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Interesting. So do the existing building codes or historical commision say they can't build there then?
Dunno.. not a big fan.
Okay, so then there is nothing really obstructing them from building it there - at least nothing locally that could interfere with the constitution. Therefore, my original point that any serious contention for them not to build there, regardless the reason (taste in cars or bikes or space ships included), is irrelevent and infringes on their constitutional right if any serious obstruction is made.
Right.
Now that you add all the "ifs"? Maybe. But they'd have to prove that it wasn't based on the fact that it's an Islamic center.
It's a good thing that this has nothing to do with why they shouldn't put it there, and has never been a part of my opinion, though eh?
So what's your favourite car?
I understand your reluctance to get into a debate about tastes, but you opened the door.
No, they're not. The protests are about the proximity of a supremacist victory mega-mosque to ground zero. There is a mosque at that very site, today, and has been for years. Nobody cares. Nobody cares because it's a modest unassuming mosque where Muslims can come and pray.
The mosque developers' intent is to change that. That changes everything.
The Mosque Rage Boils Over: Anti-Muslim Attacks Increasing Across US - TIME NewsFeed
Cabbie stabbing suspect had written about Afghanistan - CTV News
Far from Ground Zero, other plans for mosques run into vehement opposition
Vandalism at Madera Islamic center called hate crime - Top Stories - fresnobee.com
As i have stated time and again, just because you have a right to do this or that, it does not necessarily make it right. i think that this is an affront to every day Us citizens and was deliberately planned as such.
How is this provocation? As JTF and others have pointed out, there have been Muslims praying there for years since 9/11. Not a peep, until now, when they want to build a community center around their prayer space. When they reach out to interfaith groups.
What nerve. What unmitigated gall, as Danny Williams would say...
Are you saying some rights are wrong for some people? I thought all Americans enjoy their rights equally.
Do Muslim Americans count as every day US citizens? Maybe you could define this group as I don't know what you mean? Are you referring to the intolerant white Christians protesting the Muslim community center?
I am not sure whether this is a victory for Islamic extremists, but it certainly is a bit of a black eye for US democratic principles. Due to the extremely hostile reaction of many Americans to the construction of the Mosque the US comes out looking like a very intolerant society. One wonders what would have happened if those who oppose the mosque had welcomed it instead on the grounds that this was a obvious proof of the democratic and unprejudiced thought that thrives in the US. The anti-mosque protests very much resemble similar protests of the 1960s in which bigoted white Americans protested the integration of schools in many parts of the US; but especially the south. The spectacle hardly fits the US image of itself that is constantly touted on US TV by many of the commentators who are so much against it. And yes - I am thinking of Mr. Beck, Ms. Palin, and Mr. O'Reilly.
That's very sad, but a smattering of wacko's does not constitute intolerance. It's also a stretch to characterize a couple of signs and a brick tha almost broke a windows as hate crimes, but I guess that's the society we live in for ya.
EDIT:
PS - I guess you haven't heard yet that the guy who attacked the Muslim cabbie was actually a GZ Mosque supporter ;-)
If you want to know the face of intolerance, take a quick look around the world:
How the Mubarak Regime Enables the Persecution of Egypt's Copts :: Middle East Forum
According to Mr. Khalil, Copts have suffered over 1,500 attacks and have lost millions of dollars worth of property. Yet they have received no compensation, as Islamists (who "always stick together") occupy prominent positions in law enforcement, the legislative council, and the intelligence services. Most tellingly, Coptic girls are frequently abducted, raped and forced to convert to Islam — yet not a single perpetrator has been prosecuted by the state.
Indonesia: Anti-Church Protesters Attack Church Members :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.)
police and government official joined forces with a mob “to close a church in North Sumatra Province on July 30, with church leaders forced to promise never to hold services at the site
Attack on Iran's Baha'i is a human rights outrage | Barney Leith | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Lieutenant General Romeo Dallaire, veteran of Rwanda and Canadian senator, recently warned his senate that the "state-sanctioned persecution" of the Baha'is in Iran resembles "a nation leading its way into a potential genocide".
CNSNews.com - Attack Highlights Unrelenting Plight of Iraq?s Christians
The last official census, in 1987, recorded 1.4 million Christians in Iraq. By 2003 estimates of its size ranged from 1.2 million to about 800,000. There are no definitive figures, but some experts believe the community may have been cut by half since then. Killings, kidnappings, harassment and church bombings have helped to drive the exodus.
Minorities denied flood relief in Pakistan - Hindustan Times
The Ahmadiyyas complained to the government that not only were their community members not rescued but in some instances ejected from relief camps when their identity was disclosed.
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And you just have to look at the bleak desolation and shocked disbelief on Michael Enright's face to realize that he is, if found guilty under due process, a 'victim' also of the ceaseless barage of intolerance, bigotry, fear mongering, ethnic & religious bias, 'them & us', being fostered for the most part by the political agendas of those of the unethical, power & attention seeking stripe. They should be held equally accountable IMO for both the assault as well as the possible mental instability they may well have caused in what apparently was a moderate, humane young man that took root & manifested itself under the influence of alcohol.
" . . In a strange twist, the suspect in the case once volunteered with an inter-religious group which now openly supports the Islamic centre's construction. Michael Enright, the accused, is a youthful-looking college student who once worked as a volunteer in Afghanistan. He is also working on a documentary about the war in that country.
But police say he was so drunk after the attack that the student had to be taken to hospital for a psychiatric examination.
The Associated Press reported that Enright had been carrying a bag with an empty bottle of scotch inside of it, along with notepads which detailed time spent embedded with U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
Police said that no anti-Islamic statements were found in the notebooks."
"New York Gov. David Paterson said that the stabbing "should certainly compel us to remembering ... this is what terrorists really want. That we are now fighting each other, this is making their day."
Gov. Paterson's point makes the question mark on this thread heading moot IMO.
Cabbie stabbing suspect had written about Afghanistan - CTV News
I would imagine the news of this incident is causing despair and heightened tensions amongst our Canadian troops who are a large part of the dwindling contingent now expected to improve relations & trust amongst the civilians in Afghanistan. :-(
Not in this thread AFAIC, you're citing what other countries may or may not permit, tolerate & promote. Take it to a new thread and & take your chances on a debate re what is not relevant to this thread IMO.
Right... and growing opposition to Mosques around the US is not intolerance. What dictionary do you use?
I'm well aware of the intolerance of Muslim extremists, you don't need to post that stuff for my benefit. You simply asked Dexter what intolerance. There is plenty. Personally I don't think comparing the US to Pakistan is valid at all. The societies are completely different.
Can't you call a spade a spade?
Are you trying to provoke discussion or discontent?
Because from where I sit, that didn't look like Utilitarianism.
It was just an innocent little poke. I edited out the 'right' comment just after I posted because I thought it was a bit assumptive. Obviously, it sounded like another kind of 'creeping' term which was funny, in my opinion. Feel free to add to that whatever you like.
Please don't check everything I say and propagate me against utilitarianism. I may like the philosophy, but it doesn't mean that I can exert a utilitarian ethical judgment in every argument.
I just shared an observation mentalfloss. I've come to enjoy your posts, that post on the other hand, seemed out of place for you, which is why I went at it like I did. There's a compliment in there, in case I didn't make that clear.
I won't, but having looked at the link you sent me. I must ask, how does the placement of this Mosque, fit in to that philosophy?
I may have interpreted the philosophy incorrectly, but the placement of that Mosque would seem to be in contradiction to Utilitarianism.
Wow, that's a pretty big task to be honest with you and this is strictly my own subjective assessment of how it would apply, so please take it with a grain of salt.
It would probably start with an assertion of what is 'good' and you can take it from there to see whether the end consequence as a result of the action would ultimately result in the betterment of the lives of the majority. And one would also have to define the scope of population - whether it would be strictly that of the U.S., North America, or the world.
I personally see the creation of the community center causing an initial rift, as it has so far, but the end consequence would be most of the U.S. acknowledging that its negative implications are far more benign than they earlier suspected. The 'good' that could come from this is a recognition of religious freedom that did not actually interfere with national policy - and hopefully that recognition would extend to other religions, so that they can also co-exist and hopefully that would extend to the harmonious co-existence of theists with non-theists, etc.
Again, that's probably a pipe dream, but it is with the intent of having a free and democratic society that benefits the majority of its citizens, insofar as I can conceptualize what that would be like.
From my uninformed point of view ....that last comment would seem more like pragmatism rather than utilitarianism.;-)