Boy, 8, accused of killing more pets

[Praxius]

Parental abuse is about the worst IMO. I was lucky. I was not abused. I know of children whose hands were laid on hot stoves for making their Moms un-happy. I know of beatings with a razor strop, and of a butcher knife being thrown at a child, and that same child getting a beating over the head with a cast iron frying pan. I know also of a child being hit across the back so hard with a spade that there was a large cut on the back from it. I know of children being passed from pillar to post, never seeing their beating Mother until the day she would show up to take them back to whatever place she called home. Those are just a few incidences. Both of these people are sociopaths. Zero feelings about anyone or anything. But - they are great at pretending to care.

None of which are what I am even coming close to suggesting, nor condoning..... seriously wtf can't people understand the difference between controlled physical discipline and some parent off their rocker using their children to vent their anger and frustration at?

Cripes... someone suggests giving a kid a spanking and everybody jumps on them like they're suggesting hanging them from the ceiling using rusty hooks in their backs.

 

[TenPenny]

None of which are what I am even coming close to suggesting, nor condoning..... seriously wtf can't people understand the difference between controlled physical discipline and some parent off their rocker using their children to vent their anger and frustration at?

Cripes... someone suggests giving a kid a spanking and everybody jumps on them like they're suggesting hanging them from the ceiling using rusty hooks in their backs.

I guess many of us misunderstood your choice of words.

Sounds like someone should give him a good beating so he knows what it's like.

 

[Praxius]

hey Goober.... I'm not attempting to blame the parents here. This kid could have every privilige and the most model parents for all I know. I was merely addressing the notion that being beaten teaches empathy, as it clearly doesn't and has been shown to be a contributing factor to abusing others. So many animal abusers were themselves abused, it obviously does not work the way some contend 'common sense' says it should.

And at the same time, pampering and putting your kid on time out in the corner of the room for 15 minutes doesn't always solve the problem either, nor does it teach them about consequences except that if they do something horribly wrong, all they have to worry about is starring at a wall for 15 minutes and then their lives continue on like before.

I've seen it before, I've experienced it before with my own friends growing up.... I've also seen where they ended up too when they didn't get proper discipline.... they were never hit, they were rarely ever yelled at..... while sitting there playing a video game at their house, their parents would come in and ask why he set fire to the camper, he'd ignore them or tell them to go fk themselves and continue to play his video games.... I'd look at his parents and wait for some sort of response and they'd either just shake their head and walk away, or attempt to take away his game, only to end up having him attack them and swear at them like some dominant monkey and they'd walk away to leave him to his own devices..... either that or he'd ignore their punishment and grab his game and take it back to his room to continue playing..... his parents attempted to punish him through the normal actions you suggest, yet he'd respond with physical violence or verbal attacks, or would just ignore their authority and continue with what they were doing regardless.

To say the least, I quickly stopped being their friend and cut them from my life..... I believe it was around the time he stole stuff from me and sold them for some quick money, while lying to me that my brother did it, when my brother was accounted for during the time of the incident.

He'd beat his pets, he'd torture animals, he had no regard for anybody or anything except himself..... and in my opinion, that little sh*t needed someone to straighten his sh*t out good. He had many encounters with the police, he had talks with all sorts of specialists and agencies and he just worked the systems to his advantage and nothing ever changed..... last time I ever heard anything about him, he was caught by the police for robbery at the age of 17, was on house arrest and breached that by trying to run off, got caught by the police yet again and then was sent to jail for a while.

Never heard from him since, but I doubt his life has gotten any better.

And in my younger years, when he tried to attack me or hit me with something, I defended myself and I gave him a few good slugs for his efforts..... to say the least, he didn't try and pull that crap again.

I'm not saying this kid in particular is abused or isn't abused by his parents, or is getting too much discipline or too little.... none of us know..... but I certainly won't rule out my suggestion as being a valid option depending on the situation.

 

[Nuggler]

Remember this??:

""""""""
James Patrick Bulger (16 March 1990[1] – 12 February 1993) was a two-year-old child from Kirkby, Merseyside, England, who was abducted, tortured and murdered. The perpetrators were two 10-year-old boys, Robert Thompson (born 23 August 1982) and Jon Venables (born 13 August 1982).[2] Bulger disappeared on 12 February 1993 from the New Strand Shopping Centre, Bootle, while accompanying his mother. His mutilated body was found on a railway line in nearby Walton on 14 February. Thompson and Venables were charged on 20 February 1993 with the abduction and murder.
Thompson and Venables were found guilty of the murder of Bulger on 24 November 1993, making them the youngest convicted murderers in modern English history. They were sentenced to custody until they reached adulthood, initially until the age of 18, and were released on lifelong licence in June 2001. The case has prompted widespread debate on the issue of how to handle young offenders when they are sentenced or released from custody.[3]
In March 2010, Jon Venables was returned to prison for an unspecified violation of the terms of his licence of release. In July 2010, he pleaded guilty to charges of downloading and distributing child pornography, and was given a sentence of two years' imprisonment"""""""""
__________________________
It would be interesting to know how these youngsters started on their way to infamy and sadism.

Shall do some research and copy and paste a whole shipload later.,..........nah.........most of it's here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

have a lookie.

Note the addendum of child pornography. Maybe some pricks are just pricks.

Lawyers and psychologists make a bundle off refuse like this:neutral:

 

[Praxius]

this is very disturbing indeed.

this whole family needs to come to attention 'fast' and address this problem along with a counsellor,
or someone who can approach this in a positive way, but firm

I would immediately put him in a situation where he must care for animals (under supervision), be
taught about animals, and at the same time talk to him about his own life, and maybe he will open
up and begin to vent a little.
He should have to work and care for animals on a steady basis, (under supervision), until he shows
some sincere connection for them, or if the opposite continues, and he is violent in front of others,
he obviously has a serious emotional problem, and further counselling should be taken.

Hitting the child will do nothing but further the problem in the wrong direction, and do nothing to
help him improve his behavior.

Sounds like a reasonable idea to rehabilitate him.... but what do you do if and when he decides to attack or kill those animals that are in his care? Sure he should be under constant supervision..... but that's not always impossible..... turn your back to answer the door and *whack* one animal's dead.....

Hypothetically, if that occurs, what is the solution then?

Do you have kids?

Irrelevant if I do or don't and is a typical poor attempt to de-evaluate someone's opinion based on if they have a child or not.

I have been responsible for the care of a number of children in the past. I have never had to resort to any form of physical punishment for anything wrong a child has done under my care, but in very extreme situations and circumstances, I don't rule anything out.

I guess many of us misunderstood your choice of words.

A "Good Beating" doesn't equate to taking a frying pan to the kid and flattening out his skull.... in my eyes, it equates to "Effective and Balanced Physical Punishment"..... though a little different re-wording.

 

[TenPenny]

You've now equated 'spanking' to 'a good beating'.

If that's how you see it, fine.

Many others, who agree with spanking, don't think it's equivalent to 'a good beating', but those are your words, and your justification, and whatever works for you is fine with me.

 

[Praxius]

You've now equated 'spanking' to 'a good beating'.

If that's how you see it, fine.

Many others, who agree with spanking, don't think it's equivalent to 'a good beating', but those are your words, and your justification, and whatever works for you is fine with me.

The term "Beating" is subjective.... I view it one way, you apparently view it another way. I used the term Beating to cover Spanking or any other form of physical discipline that may apply depending on the situation.

Anyways, in related news:

Boy in pet-killing case needs help now: expert
CBC News - Nfld. & Labrador - Boy in pet-killing case needs help now: expert

A small boy in rural Newfoundland who has been accused of killing local animals requires immediate treatment to steer him away from greater dangers, one of Canada's foremost experts in child protection says.

Authorities say an eight-year-old boy in Stoneville, on Newfoundland's northeast coast, killed a neighbour's dog with a barbecue fork in June and this week bludgeoned another family's pet chickens to death.

Kathleen Kufeldt, a former chair in child protection at Memorial University in St. John's, said there is no question that health-care workers need to intervene in the boy's case.

"If this youngster is not treated early, and if the home situation is a bad one, not taken from that home early, then the chances are that he's going to grow up into a sadistic adult who's going to do a lot of damage," Kufeldt told CBC News.

Kufeldt said both the child and the community around him are at risk unless professionals take action.

Central Health, the regional authority that manages hospitals and many health services in central Newfoundland, declined to comment on the kind of help that is available for the boy, although a spokesperson questioned whether there is even a mental health issue in the case or whether the boy is simply a "bad kid."

RCMP are investigating this week's incident.

Thorough assessment needed

Kufeldt said the boy needs to be thoroughly assessed, possibly at a hospital outside Newfoundland and Labrador.

She said she believes if the boy cannot get the treatment he needs close to home, he would be better served to leave the province to attend a treatment centre.

Neighbours in Stoneville told CBC News they are worried about what the boy is capable of doing next. Kufeldt said they are right to be concerned.

"They should start worrying at the first symptoms, and you've described some very serious symptoms already," said Kufeldt.

 

[talloola]

Sounds like a reasonable idea to rehabilitate him.... but what do you do if and when he decides to attack or kill those animals that are in his care? Sure he should be under constant supervision..... b.[/QUOTEut that's not always impossible..... turn your back to answer the door and *whack* one animal's dead.

....

supervision isn't done by some air heads, it's done by those with a complete understanding of
the situation, da

 

[Praxius]

supervision isn't done by some air heads, it's done by those with a complete understanding of the situation, da

Duh indeed.... if these supervisors were so great as you claim, then none of the kids under their watch would ever re-offend would they?

Yet time and time again, many of these problem kids end up right back where they started.... with these supervisors and various youth agencies trying to correct their ways..... to even say these people have a "Complete" understanding of the situation is quite the overstatement because if in every case they dealt with, they really did have complete understanding of the situation, these kids wouldn't end up right back to where they started and this kid in particular wouldn't have gone out to club and kill more animals after the first time they tossed the RCMP, Child, Youth and Family Services at him.

Clearly they understood the situation completely the first time around that he never re-offended..... oh wait, never mind, cuz he did and in a much worse manner then before. So explain that one to me.

By the way, you still never answered my original question.

 

[karrie]

And neither do you, thus you suggesting that all he needs are hugs and rainbows isn't anymore valid then my position.

Wow, life's pretty black and white to you hey? Beat or coddle, there's no middle ground huh? Ridiculous. I never said he needed to be coddled, I said he needs serious intervention, but that beating him likely wouldn't do a thing to fix anything other than your own lust to smack someone around.

 

[lone wolf]

Irrelevant if I do or don't and is a typical poor attempt to de-evaluate someone's opinion based on if they have a child or not.

Ah great.... A textbook expert.

I just asked you a simple question. Apparently you realize that you're just professing knowledge that you don't have ... hence the snotty response.

 

[petros]

Aggression and Animal Abuse

Violence against Animals is Linked to Family Turmoil


The American Psychiatric Association considers animal cruelty as one of the diagnostic criteria of conduct disorder. The fourth edition of the DSM, (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), defines conduct disorder as "a repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age appropriate societal norms or rules are violated." Conduct disorder is found in those who abuse animals and abuse people.
Many psychological, sociological and criminology studies in recent decades have clearly shown that violent offenders have adolescent histories of serious and repeated animal cruelty. The F.B.I. has analyzed the lives of serial killers and their findings suggest that most serial killers have killed or tortured animals as children. Further research has shown consistent patterns of animal cruelty among perpetrators of more common forms of abuse such as: child abuse, spouse abuse and elder abuse.
Motivations

In 1985, researchers Stephen Kellert and Alan Felthous, extensively studied the animal abuse phenomenon. They discovered several motivations that helped to characterize animal cruelty in adults, many of which are applicable to youth who abuse animals. Some motivations are:

• To enhance one's own aggressiveness.To shock people for amusement.
• Controlling an animal through inflicting pain as a result of the sense of loss of full control in one's own life. (Physically abused by parents.)
• Retaliation against a person by hurting their pet.
• To experience sadism (the suffering experienced by the animal).

Case reports and a youth interview study conducted by researchers Frank Ascione, T. Thompson and T. Black suggest a number of developmentally related motivations such as:

• Peer pressure
• Mood enhancement (e.g. animal abuse is used to relieve boredom).
• Sexual gratification (bestiality).
• Forced abuse (child is forced into animal abuse by a more powerful individual).
• Animal phobias.
• Post-traumatic play (reenacting violent episodes with an animal victim.)
• Imitation (copying a parent's or other adult's abusive “discipline” of animals).

Kellert and Felthous found that family violence, particularly alcoholism and paternal abuse, were significantly more common among aggressive criminals with a history of childhood cruelty toward animals. This connects with statistical information from animal control agencies in the United States. They say that 80% of homes in which animal control agencies found abused pets, there had been investigations by child welfare agencies due to reports of physical abuse and neglect.

FBI Supervisory Special Agent Allen Brantley was quoted as saying “Animal cruelty is not a harmless venting of emotion in a healthy individual; this is a warning sign.” There are deep psychological issues that lead to violent crimes against people.

Dr. Randall Lockwood, who earned a doctorate in psychology and is senior vice president for anti-cruelty and training for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals says that children and adolescents who are abusive to animals is often acting out violence experienced or witnessed in their home. Aggressive individuals usually become that way because of a real or perceived injustice.
Jeffrey Dahmer, David Berowitz, Ted Bundy, all sadistically tortured animals in their childhood. Brenda Spencer, who opened fire at a San Diego school, killed two students and injured nine other children. When she was young, she had repeatedly abused cats and dogs, often by setting their tails on fire.
Prevention

Like child and spousal abuse, this is a highly problematic issue that sadly, will not go away for a long time. Being proactive is something everyone can do. Volunteer time, or donate to your locate Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is a start.
If you see an act of violence against any animal, report it to both the local S.P.C.A. and to the police. If you know of or suspect there is violence in a neighbor's home or a child is being abused, the perpetrator could be a future violent criminal. It's a moral and civic duty to report these situations to local child welfare agencies.
If everyone does a little, changes can happen.

© 2009 Karen Stephenson


Read more at Suite101: Aggression and Animal Abuse: Violence against Animals is Linked to Family Turmoil http://abuse.suite101.com/article.cfm/aggression_and_animal_abuse#ixzz0vBjah75L
​

 

[drudkh]

I wonder if he wets his bed as well.. Killing animals at a young age is the beginning stages of becoming a serial killer. His parents are undoubtedly useless trash.

 

[petros]

I wonder if he wets his bed as well.. Killing animals at a young age is the beginning stages of becoming a serial killer. His parents are undoubtedly useless trash.

Kellert and Felthous found that family violence, particularly alcoholism and paternal abuse, were significantly more common among aggressive criminals with a history of childhood cruelty toward animals. This connects with statistical information from animal control agencies in the United States. They say that 80% of homes in which animal control agencies found abused pets, there had been investigations by child welfare agencies due to reports of physical abuse and neglect.

 

[karrie]

Kellert and Felthous found that family violence, particularly alcoholism and paternal abuse, were significantly more common among aggressive criminals with a history of childhood cruelty toward animals. This connects with statistical information from animal control agencies in the United States. They say that 80% of homes in which animal control agencies found abused pets, there had been investigations by child welfare agencies due to reports of physical abuse and neglect.

This is what blows me away when people seem to think corporal punishment will solve the issues going on with such broken individuals. A drop in the bucket of their already obviously shattered psyche is all a smack would be to them.

 

[Praxius]

Wow, life's pretty black and white to you hey? Beat or coddle, there's no middle ground huh? Ridiculous.

Speaking of ridiculous, how about next time you try and put some effort into reading what I have already said. I already stated a number of times that I personally never had to resort to any physical punishment to a child where it clearly wasn't needed or justified, in fact I never had to period and there are many other methods that can be applied, BASED ON THE SITUATION.

The only difference is that I'm not ruling any solutions to a problem out, while you are and justifying doing so by B&W viewing my position that any sort of issue or wrong-doing from a child should be dealt with by the most brutal and unwarranted methods of punishment like I'm some sort of Nazi and completely exaggerating my position, either by ignorance of not reading or just to keep this pointlessness of further explanation going when it's not needed.

As I already and very clearly explained, when something like this is a first time offense, talking to the child and attempting to explain the situation to them that what they did was completely wrong in so many ways and trying to give them help through official means is probably the best approach.......

..... BUT this was already done when it happened the first time and now a second incident with the child occurred and was far worse then before, with even more animals brutalized and killed...... so apparently the above approach didn't work..... thus another approach should be sought out.

I never said he needed to be coddled, I said he needs serious intervention, but that beating him likely wouldn't do a thing to fix anything other than your own lust to smack someone around.

A serious intervention was already done, but you seem to want to continue ignoring that little nugget called a "FACT" in the original report and continue to parrot that he needs some serious intervention as if it was never attempted.

They sent four different organizations after him the first time around to try and set him straight..... I don't know about you, but that sounds to me like some serious intervention...... Which Failed.

So what more serious intervention would you suggest??

The thing is.... you haven't suggested a damn thing other then what was already attempted and failed and are more then willing to jump and shat all over anybody else who actually offers up something else besides parroting an already failed process.

and if you think I have some sort of lust to smack someone around, you better get a grip on reality princess because you clearly don't know a damn thing about me or my views..... then again, considering your slack attempts to even read what I have been saying and understanding the position of which I come from, it's not surprising you don't know a damn thing about my views or where I'm coming from and quickly try and jump to some attempt to provoke me by insinuating that I somehow enjoy beating and abusing people when I never once did or ever had to do so in my entire life besides in self defense.

Oh but you have kids, therefore you're the expert on what all kids can or will do and how to deal with them. Sorry to say, but not everybody is lucky to have perfect little angels...... some are actually stuck with some sick, twisted little sh*ts that normal processes do not work on.

 

[petros]

This is what blows me away when people seem to think corporal punishment will solve the issues going on with such broken individuals. A drop in the bucket of their already obviously shattered psyche is all a smack would be to them.

I get to hear all about the minds of the violent and effects of abuse on a daily basis. My wonderful wife has interviewed and counselled some of Canada's most violent prisoners. The vast majority of the them break into tears when their childhood is questioned.

I'd love to post some of the transcripts of the sessions. Many who have posted on this thread would be humbled after the reality of what some kids have to go through sets in.

We just don't hear about it publicly enough and misinformed opinions are formed quite easily.

 

[karrie]

Oh but you have kids, therefore you're the expert on what all kids can or will do and how to deal with them. Sorry to say, but not everybody is lucky to have perfect little angels...... some are actually stuck with some sick, twisted little sh*ts that normal processes do not work on.

Where the hell are you dragging that up as anything *I* said? You've clearly never heard me talk about my kids, you've ignored stuff I've said about kids I know in this very thread, and you're trying to pin something someone else asked you, on ME. Sorry, Prax, but you're getting hysterical, and insulting, and I'm done talking to you.

 

[Praxius]

Ah great.... A textbook expert.

I just asked you a simple question. Apparently you realize that you're just professing knowledge that you don't have ... hence the snotty response.

Pot meet kettle..... I have enough knowledge to speak my own damn opinion as much as the next person, and just because you may have kids and they're little angels in your eyes, doesn't make everybody's kids around the world the exact same, nor what you view of your child as actually true.

A lot of parents like to try and downplay those who don't have kids that are their own and try and act like self proclaimed experts above anybody who doesn't have them (Yet who probably have extended experience with caring for one or more children for extended periods of time)..... and if they don't have their own biological children that they don't understand a situation...... yet at the same time, it can be easily argued that quite often parents get clouded visions of the world and clouded visions of their own children as if they could do no wrong and that somehow they're the most perfect parents in the world which everybody should follow...... who then end up into drugs, or having sex at a young age, or even a baby, or stealing, or something else.......

..... then when the crap really hits the fan, and their kid is behind bars or something tragic happened to them, the parents go on camera to the public and sob "Oh I don't know what happened to my little Billy, he was always such a good child, had good grades in school and had great friends........"

Guess what? Your kid isn't so angelic as you may think and there's a crap load they do that you have no idea of...... I know this because it wasn't too long ago that I was a kid and I remember every single thing I did and every single thing I got away with, along with all the things my friends did and got away with as well...... all the while playing the innocent card to their parents.

Oh indeed.... my parents always believed I would never do such a thing, that I don't ever lie like my brother and sister and if I did I learned it from them.

My experience doesn't come as a parent.... my experience comes from my past as a child which I remember very clearly, the mentality of a kid, etc..... which is equally, if not more valid because it comes from the perspective of the child, not the parent. I have noticed over the years many who end up with kids of their own switch to parent mode and seem to somehow forget what it was like to be the child and the world seems to be viewed with rose colored glasses...... they have a tendency to think certain things are impossible for their kids or other kids to do simply because they never experienced those things first hand..... then when they read something in the papers about some kid doing something horrible, they're mortified and immediately blame the parents for what the kid did.... finger pointing that they were bad parents..... they must have been, there's simply no other answer for them..... because they themselves are good parents in their own eyes and their children never did such things, nor could a child ever learn to do such a thing if it wasn't learned from their own parents.

No.... some kids are just plain screwed up in the head and sometimes their parents did everything they could possibly think of to raise their kids as well as they could.

 

[lone wolf]

Prax, you're owned. No need to dig your way any farther into the hole because trying to insult your way back out of it doesn't work well. Were you that kid by any chance?

Have you ever read where I've said my kids were angels? How about my grandkids? Feel free to assume away. There is only one person you are making an ass of.