What IS true is two simple facts:
1. Going about masked has long been considered questionable behaviour in western society.
2. If you are wearing the burka, for ANY reason, you do not belong in the west. Go home.
French burka ban proposal riles Muslims
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
What IS true is two simple facts:
1. Going about masked has long been considered questionable behaviour in western society.
2. If you are wearing the burka, for ANY reason, you do not belong in the west. Go home.
There are times and places where I don't think it's appropriate to hide one's face; voting, anything where photo id is required, etc.
Banks might not like you coming in wearing a mask, but then again, it's unlikely that a woman wearing a burqa would be allowed by her husband to do any banking.
Other than that, wear whatever you want to. If you feel that it's important to hide your face, go ahead.
Banks might not like you coming in wearing a mask, but then again, it's unlikely that a woman wearing a burqa would be allowed by her husband to do any banking.
Other than that, wear whatever you want to. If you feel that it's important to hide your face, go ahead.
Then we better ban Indian and Pakistani women from wearing saris, south Asians from wearing sarongs because those items of clothing also cover the whole body sometimes.
That's sensible.
Interesting. What if some people decided that their religion required them to wear daggers at all times, even though their Holy Book doesn't say so? What would your position on that be?
Masks and other face coverings are perfectly legal in Canada.
Also I think you are confused about which country you live in. Canada is multicultural, which means we tolerate and respect other cultures, including ones where people wear unusual clothing.
Canadian Multiculturalism
If you don't like this aspect of Canada, why not move to the US?
Now you are talking about a public safety issue. Public safety trumps cultural and religious freedoms.
Sikhs cannot take their daggers onto a plane for example.
You're descending a slippery slope, EAO.Masks and other face coverings are perfectly legal in Canada.
Also I think you are confused about which country you live in. Canada is multicultural, which means we tolerate and respect other cultures, including ones where people wear unusual clothing.
Canadian Multiculturalism
If you don't like this aspect of Canada, why not move to the US?
Now you are talking about a public safety issue. Public safety trumps cultural and religious freedoms.
Sikhs cannot take their daggers onto a plane for example.
While we are a multicultural country and try to respect all cultures, just how far do we go? You feel that we should respect the right for women to wear niquab. Do you respect the right for fathers and mothers to subject their daughters to female genital mutilation? After all, it's their 'culture'. How about animals? do we ban help animals (seeing/hearing dogs) from the buses because Muslims have cultural issues with dogs? And then there are 'honour killings'. Do you support that as a legal defense for a family murdering their daughter? Maybe you're ok with the stoning of gays and 'adulterous women' - after all, it's cultural, right?
We are in Canada for the most part, a culture that is a visual one. I WANT to see who is treating me in the hospital - I want to see the face of my nurse or my doctor. If I am in school, I WANT to see the face of my teacher. And legally? A driving license with a woman wearing niquab is worth nothing.
If I chose to move to the Gulf States or to Iran I would comply with how they live. I think that a certain amount of accomedation is required when moving to Canada as well.
By the way, if I saw someone coming into the bank or the store I was in wearing a ski mask? I'd be on my cell phone dialing 9-1-1.
Removing the
Hutterite Kerchief
Rebecca Hofer WITH HER DAUGHTER HELEN
The true story of why half the people of a Hutterite Colony left their home.
Learn the rich diverse culture and social environment of a Hutterite colony in Manitoba and follow the traditions of its people.
Meet the families from Hutterite Barrickman Colony and see the story unfold when it becomes overpopulated. Observe how Samuel and Sarah Hofer's family were chosen to move to the new colony named Greenwald.
Immerse yourself in the true story of this Hutterite family at Greenwald Colony and watch the escalating and unbelievable conditions they endured for more than a decade by their Hutterite leaders.
From their dismal, secluded environment, on a cold winter day, these 40 men, women and children spanning three generations, half the members of Greenwald Colony, with only meagre belongings, did the unimaginable. They left their culture, heritage and livelihood behind and moved into an unfamiliar and unknown world.
Published in association with the Okanagan Institute Collegium
Edited by Dona Sturmanis
5.5 x 8.5 inches, 192 pages, paperback | ISBN 978-0-9810271-3-5 | $20
Publication date: January 2010. Available for purchase at www.rebeccahofer.com.
Well I haven't read the book,but I lived for four years in Manitoba surrounded by Hutterite communities - and I know the status of women in those communities) and i recognise that the women on the picture above are at the Western Wall in Jerusalem - at the back - not up front where the men can worship (women can worship at a very small portion of the Wall unfortunately). but explain why you posted these images.
Removing the
Hutterite Kerchief
Rebecca Hofer WITH HER DAUGHTER HELEN
The true story of why half the people of a Hutterite Colony left their home.
Learn the rich diverse culture and social environment of a Hutterite colony in Manitoba and follow the traditions of its people.
Meet the families from Hutterite Barrickman Colony and see the story unfold when it becomes overpopulated. Observe how Samuel and Sarah Hofer's family were chosen to move to the new colony named Greenwald.
Immerse yourself in the true story of this Hutterite family at Greenwald Colony and watch the escalating and unbelievable conditions they endured for more than a decade by their Hutterite leaders.
From their dismal, secluded environment, on a cold winter day, these 40 men, women and children spanning three generations, half the members of Greenwald Colony, with only meagre belongings, did the unimaginable. They left their culture, heritage and livelihood behind and moved into an unfamiliar and unknown world.
Published in association with the Okanagan Institute Collegium
Edited by Dona Sturmanis
5.5 x 8.5 inches, 192 pages, paperback | ISBN 978-0-9810271-3-5 | $20
Publication date: January 2010. Available for purchase at www.rebeccahofer.com.
I posted them because head dress is part of many doctrines world wide. Some like it. Some don't.
None of us are in a position to decide for them.
Why do wear your hair the way you do?
I wear my hair short because until I was 13 I had never had my hair cut - it was all about 'oh! your hair is SO beautiful'! . Yes, it was awesome hair, but in Ottawa summers it was hot and heavy. My mother had to lay me on an ironing board to get the lot of it in the sink so it could be washed. I spent my childhood in braids, while my sister had this really nice pixie cut. I hated long hair.It was my choice to live with it short - I look better and I feel better with it short.Not to mention, when all I heard was how wonderful my hair was, I started thinking that my hair was the only think=g about me that looked good.
I have no issue with 'head coverings'. I do have an issue with the rational that 'it makes people look at the person rather than the body' - because it doesn't. I see Muslim girls wearing hijab who run rings around 'western' girls when it comes to attractiveness. They have awesome hijabs and they do their make up incredibly. And I see the boys looking at them the same way they look at girls who are't covered. Whatever any religion/culture might try to supress, the urge for human kind to adorn their bodies will never cease.
And having said that, i take issue with all the Muslim men and boys hwho wear the latest clothes, walk with their faces to the breeze, feel the wind on their bodies and have no problem insisting that the women that are with them dress modestly - and can't feel that same wonder of nature - the wind.
I take no issue with the idea of dressing modestly, I have a problem, however, with one group demanding it of another, yet not really imposing it upon themselves.
In Saudi Arabia men wear a thob - a light weight white garment. Women? They wear heavy black abayas, with a niquab, and often with black gloves. Tell me - what is so bad, so nasty about a woman's body, that she has to hide it when she goes out in public? If the argument is that it makes it so men don't covet her? Give me a break! What that says is that women have to suffer because men are weak!
Tell me Petros, are you that weak that you would go bonkers if you saw the hand or the body of a woman? and if you are, shouldn't it be YOU that was restrained, rather than the woman?
Me? I want to be able to walk in the world feeling the wind ....
Wearing an article of clothing out of one's personal choice is far more different then having someone's lunatic parents lop off your labia and clitoris..... especially when considering the clothing doesn't harm or kill anybody..... clothing can be removed at anytime.... your labia and clitoris don't grow back and the complications that come from such things as genital mutilation like female circumcisions last a lifetime.
I understand restricting or banning certain cultural beliefs and practices for the sake of health and safety to the individual or those around that individual, but going around acting like fashion police, banning anything that covers up a subjective amount of the face is ridiculous.
You claim the above examples of ski masks, scarfs and halloween masks are a slippery slope.... I beg to differ.
Besides one form being for protection of the elements and the other worn for the fun of it, the only excuse for banning the Burqa is because it's tied to a religion most don't like now a days. They claim it's oppressive and pull out all sorts of ignorant excuses to use this as a pitiful form of attacking a religion and those who follow it.
If someone is being "FORCED" to wear one, then yes, it is oppressive and that person should have the freedom/right to choose if they want to wear it or not....... but most reports, interviews and polls I've come across shown that many who are of the faith and do wear the Burqas, do so by their own free will and choice and actually describe a few benefits they appreciate that come from wearing one.
So where's their choice?
There isn't one, because people want to argue that they're not capable of making their own decisions in life and should just have them banned all out regardless of one's personal choice.
In other words, people are fighting for women's equality and the ability to choose for themselves in a free society...... but forcibly removing women's rights to choose what they wear and for what reasons they deem fit for themselves.
And nobody sees a contradiction? :-?
Oh some will say those who like them and freely choose to wear them were brainwashed since they were kids and can't properly think for themselves...... yet I could easily counter that Priests, Nuns, Amish, Orthodox Jews and every other religious group that have strict dress codes for religious reasons are brainwashed in much the same way.
But where's the argument to ban their clothing/fashions as well?
The typical response falls back on the lame and weak argument "It's all about covering the face..... THE FACE THE FACE..... OH WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE FACE!!!"
Which once again, falls back to the ski masks/scarfs & halloween mask argument..... and we loop the argument all the way back to the start and nothing is solved.
Some will say it's a security concern..... but these things existed for centuries..... I don't remember hearing of any of our countries being attacked or our citizens harmed by anybody wearing a burqa..... they are not some middle eastern specialist ninjas out to get us..... there is no justification for the fearmongering of burqas in relation to security so that argument is baseless as well.
In fact Burqas or clothes that are similar and cover the face, have been recorded in history as existing as far back as 100 AD.... long before Islam ever existed.
Please.... an article of clothing sure as hell does not relate nor compare to any of the above..... and if you want to go around on your high horse talking about banning various articles of clothing based on their connections to religion and intolerance to different cultures, then it's only fair to ban all religious clothing....... which also includes everyday underwear.
You's sound'n like dem 'Mericans down south.
I don't care what someone looks like, I don't need to see someone's face. All I need is to know their personality and if I can communicate with them.... a face isn't needed for any of that, and is just a crutch for superficial people who think it's their business to know and judge people based on their looks.
I can understand requiring facial ID's to have the Burqa removed to some degree or perhaps federal officials requiring to see someone's face behind a Burqa, but an all-out ban is excessive, unjustified, a clear attack on a particular religion/culture, and in regards to everybody else in society..... it's none of your damn business what someone looks like, nor is it mine.
I have no right to demand you show me what you look like in these forums..... and I have no obligation to show you what I look like..... maybe I'm wearing a Burqa right now..... if I was, what difference does it make to you in here? You know who I am, you know my views and my opinions, and you know clearly what I am saying here, by reading it...... yet you don't know what I look like and you haven't seen my face.
If this society is so based on visually seeing who you talk to or get service from..... then how do you explain this massive online community and many others like it around the world where so many people communicate freely with one another, yet in most cases, never see the faces of those they are talking to?
By all means, explain that to me.
There is..... but adding more to our bureaucracy ala the fashion police is foolish and a complete waste of time and resources.
Focus on the real issues with cultural differences like honor killings, genital mutilations, oppression, violence, etc...... then once we get a handle on these things and those committing these offenses are dealt with, I can see an attempt to jumping to this debate about what one wears and why.
At present, all this is is a political hot potato used to make a particular culture/religion be the whipping horse for a while longer because it's the popular thing to do now a days.
Prax...this was pure arrogance and ignorance. It was a Canadian that said this and he sounds like a number of other Canadians echoing the same thing right here in this thread. You are just perpetuating this myth that somehow you are above all this.
He sounds just like a Canadian with a different point of view than yours.
Does the US embrace multiculturalism like Canada? Is it part of your constitution?
Does the US consider multiculturalism to be a fundamental characteristic of the American heritage and identity?
This is the law in Canada.
If so, please post a link. Otherwise I stand by my comments.
If you don't like Canada's multiculturalism policies, you are free to immigrate to another country where immigrants are expected to give up their culture/language, or fight to change Canada's law.
If you are referring to Sikhism, dagger is a religious requirement for them, as is turban. In their Holy Book, Granth Sahib, it is written that Sikhs must carry five things with them all the time, the five ‘k’s. Dagger, turban, hair, a bracelet and a comb (they all apparently start with a ‘k’ in their language).
That is why the courts in Canada ruled in their favor, both for turban and kirpan. I think the courts were right to do so. However, when it comes to veil, nowhere in Koran does it say that women must wear a veil. As such, veil is a cultural symbol, and not a religious requirement. So if a country wishes to ban veil, that is their right and nobody’s business.