Should the Liberals and NDP merge?

[Colpy]

I voted "yes".

And I did so from a purely partisan, tactical perspective.

A united Liberal/NDP party (the Liberal Democrats?) would achieve a couple of things....to the benefit of the Conservatives.

It would pull the Liberal Party to the left.......leaving the political spectrum from right to centre entirely to the Conservatives. This would cost the new party votes, make no mistake. Even some partisan Liberals would jump ship....to the Tories.....

It would pull the NDP hard to the right. The left wing of the party would jump, either to form some new, totally irrelevant rump party (like the Greens, but Greens are actually pretty centre)......or to non-participation in the political process.

In other word, the Conservative Party could ONLY gain ground.....it remains to be seen if the Liberal Democrats would retain enough of their former support to beat out Harper.......

Now....the GOOD things about it from a non-partisan perspective......

Iggy goes.

Canadians are offered a choice unlike the old Tweedledee or Tweedledum Liberal/Conservative hard in the centre one we have been left with for decades.... (the NDP never had a chance at forming gov't)

Nuff said.

 

[AnnaG]

I voted "yes".

And I did so from a purely partisan, tactical perspective.

A united Liberal/NDP party (the Liberal Democrats?) would achieve a couple of things....to the benefit of the Conservatives.

It would pull the Liberal Party to the left.......leaving the political spectrum from right to centre entirely to the Conservatives. This would cost the new party votes, make no mistake. Even some partisan Liberals would jump ship....to the Tories.....

It would pull the NDP hard to the right. The left wing of the party would jump, either to form some new, totally irrelevant rump party (like the Greens, but Greens are actually pretty centre)......or to non-participation in the political process.

In other word, the Conservative Party could ONLY gain ground.....it remains to be seen if the Liberal Democrats would retain enough of their former support to beat out Harper.......

Now....the GOOD things about it from a non-partisan perspective......

Iggy goes.

Canadians are offered a choice unlike the old Tweedledee or Tweedledum Liberal/Conservative hard in the centre one we have been left with for decades.... (the NDP never had a chance at forming gov't)

Nuff said.

It's an opinion. I don't think that many people would leave either party.

 

[coldstream]

The Liberals have always won by systematically avoiding any ideological standard. They have at various times been economic nationalists, free traders, defenders of traditional lifestyles, and those who squandered that to homosexuality and abortion.

It's not so much that they have any scruples about alligning themselves with a party that they should be an an anathema to them, since the nationalist and dirigist policies of the NDP are in polar opposition to the economic liberalism (Free Trade, monetarism) that pervades the policies of the Liberals now.

I just don't think they could tolerate anything that smacks of an ideological foundation. They are governed by polls, and pander the transient public fads, homosexuality, Anthropocentric Warming, abortion, all of the idols of a post structural society.

 

[Tonington]

It's an opinion. I don't think that many people would leave either party.

I agree. Many Reformers still support the Conservatives, who spend like a drunk Liberal sailor on shore leave.

 

[Goober]

I agree. Many Reformers still support the Conservatives, who spend like a drunk Liberal sailor on shore leave.

And Iffy the Great Undecider and Renowned Quibbler was hectoring the Govt to shovel the cash out the door as fast as possible and Iffy wanted reports as to how fast the cash was moving - Seems that you left that bit out. Harper has a Minority Govt. Seems others had a bit of a say in it.

 

[Tonington]

And Iffy the Great Undecider and Renowned Quibbler was hectoring the Govt to shovel the cash out the door as fast as possible and Iffy wanted reports as to how fast the cash was moving - Seems that you left that bit out. Harper has a Minority Govt. Seems others had a bit of a say in it.

So? We're talking about separate parties joining, and what happens to their supporters. If the Liberals let the Conservatives spend money, how would that influence former PC's or Reformers one way or another about the CPC? Where would dissatisfied supporters go?

So far, they appear to be pinching their nose and bearing it. I'm sure the Liberals and NDP's would be the same.

 

[Goober]

So? We're talking about separate parties joining, and what happens to their supporters. If the Liberals let the Conservatives spend money, how would that influence former PC's or Reformers one way or another about the CPC? Where would dissatisfied supporters go?

So far, they appear to be pinching their nose and bearing it. I'm sure the Liberals and NDP's would be the same.

Conservatives have no other place to go - We both realize that as well as Harper - Both the Liberals and Conservatives with policy you would be hard pressed to slip a piece of paper between them - Either one sucks - That’s why I love the polls that show a continuing Minority govt -

Eventually they may grow up and start being useful instead of acting like pre-schoolers in need of a Time Out- No majority without Quebec for the Liberals - But Harper has better odds on forming a Majority in my opinion -

As to a merger I think borderline Liberals would hold their nose and possibly vote Conservative - NDP - a Joke - Layton a Joke - their Platforms a Joke - Not made to govern so they can promise a chicken in every pot and Pot to go with it.

 

[Risus]

"But why would the NDP want to sell out their ideals to get in bed with the liberals?".

Bob Rea already did.

They also sold out their ideals when they formed the coalition with the Glibs and bloc a while back.

 

[Goober]

So Liberal Party Leadership Race

First the Parade of candidates

YouTube - Bring on the Clowns

Then the Theme Music to Inspire the great unwashed

YouTube - "Send in the Clowns" - Sally Ann Howes

 

[Tonington]

Conservatives have no other place to go

That was my point.

I doubt it would be much different for Liberals and NDP. Sure a few will change their vote, but I doubt they were solid votes to begin with if they'll jump ship.

 

[Goober]

That was my point.

I doubt it would be much different for Liberals and NDP. Sure a few will change their vote, but I doubt they were solid votes to begin with if they'll jump ship.

From what i recall from a news commentary a few years back approx 35 or so ridings decide whether we have a Con or Lib govt - Now the dynamics have changed as the Libs are pretty well shut out of Quebec and down to major cities.

 

[Tonington]

The dynamics would change if the two parties merged too. Seats that the NDP won won't be going to Conservatives...

 

[taxslave]

Harper would wet his pants if the libs and dippers merged. He would get his majority then. For the next several decades most likely.

 

[Goober]

The dynamics would change if the two parties merged too. Seats that the NDP won won't be going to Conservatives...

And seats that the Liberals barely won would go where - Each riding would have to be looked at where the Cons came in 2nd - The dynamics, average salary, blue or white collar, ethnic and on it goes. The pundits would be raking in the cash along with the pollsters

 

[JLM]

Harper would wet his pants if the libs and dippers merged. He would get his majority then. For the next several decades most likely.

Merging would be a huge mistake for both the Liberals and the N.D.P. - no one would trust them. :smile:

 

[Goober]

Merging would be a huge mistake for both the Liberals and the N.D.P. - no one would trust them. :smile:

JLM my friend - Have you had a long hard day - Who trusts any of them.

 

[Tonington]

And seats that the Liberals barely won would go where -

Add the NDP votes. Where would they go indeed?

 

[earth_as_one]

The total votes cast for the NDP and Liberals in the 2008 election exceed those cast for the Conservatives:

Block: 1,379,991

Cons: 5,209,069

Green: 937,613

Libs: 3,644,185

NDP: 2,515,288

NDP+Libs=6,159,473

 

[Goober]

Add the NDP votes. Where would they go indeed?

They would of course find Religion and go Green

The total votes cast for the NDP and Liberals in the 2008 election exceed those cast for the Conservatives:

Block: 1,379,991

Cons: 5,209,069

Green: 937,613

Libs: 3,644,185

NDP: 2,515,288

NDP+Libs=6,159,473

Which means diddly - This is a 1st past the post system. Look to the close riding and then crunch some numbers.

 

[Tonington]

No Goober, you need to look at the numbers...Look at it this way, when the Reform party and PC merged, the % change in total votes was only -4% for Liberals, but the change in seats was -37, from 172 down to 135.