Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

[Goober]

EAOQuoting Goober



CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card".I had hoped that hate would not creep into this forum - But Canaduh I have the opinion you would be quite comfortable at an Aryan Nations meeting. Well would you
Its possible to be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. I think you read too much into his post. He's just observed that everytime Israel commits yet another horrendous atrocity, the news ignores it and prints yet another story about the holocaust instead.



EAO

I think that you would be quite at home in Nazi Germany -
Ignoring the facts as they transpired. Looking the other way - might get into trouble
- It is your thinking that supports racism by trying to explain away clear and obvious as well as odious hatred of Jews.

Face it - you are an apologist and an Anti - Semite.

 

[earth_as_one]

Its possible to be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. I think you read too much into his post. He's just observed that everytime Israel commits yet another horrendous atrocity, the news ignores it and prints yet another story about the holocaust instead.

For example:

January 29, 2010 Google News Search
Results 1 – 10 of about 13,642 for holocaust
Results 1 – 10 of about 3,587 for goldstone
Results 1 – 10 of about 974 for rwanda genocide

Why does the news have 13,642 stories about a 60 year old event, yet far less about the Goldstone Report which is about recent Israeli atrocities? Even the Rwandan genocide doesn't get nearly as much attention as the Holocaust. Can you name another event as old as the holocaust which has more than 13,000 active google linked news stories?

If you followed the news - this week was the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz - Did you expect the media to ignore that?

I would have expected the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz to get far less coverage than the 65th anniversary of D-Day, the end of WW II or even the second anniversary of Israel's ongoing Gaza blockade/crime against humanity. The holocaust gets more news coverage now than when it was happening.

I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.

Another clue is that most holocaust stories only mention the Jewish victims. Millions of other holocaust victims are seldom mentioned.

I think its hypocritical to pay so much attention to a historical atrocity while ignoring an ongoing one.

 

[earth_as_one]

EAOQuoting Goober



CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card".I had hoped that hate would not creep into this forum - But Canaduh I have the opinion you would be quite comfortable at an Aryan Nations meeting. Well would you
Its possible to be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic. I think you read too much into his post. He's just observed that everytime Israel commits yet another horrendous atrocity, the news ignores it and prints yet another story about the holocaust instead.



EAO

I think that you would be quite at home in Nazi Germany -
Ignoring the facts as they transpired. Looking the other way - might get into trouble
- It is your thinking that supports racism by trying to explain away clear and obvious as well as odious hatred of Jews.

Face it - you are an apologist and an Anti - Semite.

So much for rational discussion.

 

[MHz]

WebCrawler Web Search


Web Search Results for "holocaust"


All Search Engines 1 - 17 of 17 (About Results)





Web Search Results for "goldstone"



All Search Engines 1 - 20 of 59 (About Results)



Web Search Results for "rwanda genocide"


All Search Engines 1 - 20 of 43 (About Results)

 

[Goober]

So much for rational discussion.

EAO

CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card"

How can you excuse the above statement as anything but Anti Semitic -
And do not preach Rational discussion to me - I agree that both sides have committed War crimes - yet you in that one eyed look always blame Israel -

I ask questions yet you do not answer - Little difference between you and MHZ -

I tried and tried to keep this rational yet the 2 of you keep on with the same old tripe

Also your posts are to long and all over the place - Perhaps you should look at what rational is -

And it is not excusing a Racist like Canaduh.

Christ on a crutch but you are so blinded by hatred of Jews and Israel that you cannot see - They are all guilty - some more so than others -

But to you and MHZ - it is always Israel -

Regardless i am off to bed as i start work quite early -

 

[earth_as_one]

EAO

CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card"

How can you excuse (eao: weasel word) the above statement as anything but Anti Semitic -

eao: I just referenced a Jewish person with the same viewpoint as Canaduh. In fact this person wrote an entire book on the subject. So I think it is possible to hold an opinion that the holocaust is being used as cover for Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity and not be anti-Semitic.

And do not preach Rational discussion to me - I agree that both sides have committed War crimes - yet you in that one eyed look always blame Israel -

eao: Sorry I've never read a single statement written by you which condemns Israeli war crimes or crimes against humanity. I doubt I've read all your posts, so maybe I missed this. Perhaps you could list them again for my benefit or reference your post where you actually criticized Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. Tell you what, I'll list all the war crimes and crimes against humanity attributed to Palestinians in the Goldstone report.


1) Firing rockets and mortars at civilian targets

2) Torture, ill treatment and other abuses by Palestinian authorities against their political opponents.


Your turn....

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

I ask questions yet you do not answer - Little difference between you and MHZ - eao: I thought your questions were off topic and leading, which is why I ignored them. I am not obligated to answer stupid off topic questions. The topic is "Israel -the Right to exist as a state". I've tried to stay on topic by referencing the original agreed conditions for UN recongition of Israel and then pointed out how Israel has failed to live up to those obligations and now commits war crimes and crimes against humanity in violation of international law and the UN Charter. But I admit that I also go off topic occasionally too.

I tried and tried to keep this rational yet the 2 of you keep on with the same old tripe

Also your posts are to long and all over the place - Perhaps you should look at what rational is -

And it is not excusing a Racist like Canaduh. eao: Another unsubstantiated allegation. You'll have to do better than his one statement about the holocaust, which I did not interpret as racist remark but a valid observation.

Christ on a crutch but you are so blinded by hatred of Jews and Israel that you cannot see - They are all guilty - some more so than others -

eao: this is another unsubstantiated allegation. You`ll have to substantiate your claim that I hate Jews and Israel first before you can make this statement legitimately. If you actually read my posts, you'd know that I only criticize Israel`s war crimes and crimes against humanity, not Israelis in general and certainly I`ve never posted anything derogatory about Jews. I have nothing against Jews or any other religion. I also have nothing against Israelis or any other nationality. But I am against people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity regardless of religion or nationality.

But to you and MHZ - it is always Israel -

Regardless i am off to bed as i start work quite early -

The topic is Israel's right to exist as a state. How can we discuss this topic without mentioning Israel????

As far as the holocaust is concerned, yes it was a terrible tragedy. One lesson I learned from it is not to ignore atrocities while they take place. 65 years after the fact is a little late, but its not too late to speak out against recent and ongoing Israeli atrocities.

I don't believe that one atrocity can or should be used to justify another.

 

[Goober]

I would have expected the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz to get far less coverage than the 65th anniversary of D-Day, the end of WW II or even the second anniversary of Israel's ongoing Gaza blockade/crime against humanity. The holocaust gets more news coverage now than when it was happening.

I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.

Another clue is that most holocaust stories only mention the Jewish victims. Millions of other holocaust victims are seldom mentioned.

I think its hypocritical to pay so much attention to a historical atrocity while ignoring an ongoing one.

EAO

So you agree that the Jews control the Media - The Holocaust memorial is to provide cover for Israeli atrocities

The world is full of atrocities - look to Sudan and how you Arab heroes look upon it - Look to Sri Lanka and how the UN HRC was voted down on condemning the atrocities committed by the Sri Lankan Military and Govt because the Arab bloc that controls this all stood by the Sri Lankan Govt -

As to what you expect the media to cover perhaps letters to the editors - you have to provide name and phone numbers - outline your theory that the coverage is all a Jewish Controlled Media covering up Israeli atrocities -

PS the D-Day Anniversary is not until Jun 6th which will be the 66th- and the 65th was well covered by the Media

Please list what you consider to be atrocities or War Crimes by the local Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Asqua Brigade and other like minded fanatics who would love to slit your throat.

I am not inclined in any way to be a part of hate speech as Canaduh is promoting hatred against Jews - Clearly your true colors are showing it only takes time for the real Anti-Semite in you to show your real thoughts - It took me a long time to show this and I was as patient as a vulture and our came thru Loud and Clear - So please do not ever try to tell me what a peace loving individual you are - it is all the Jews fault - What a sad person you are.

 

[seomul]

Simple fact from history , you all can do a little research on who was behind King David Hotel bombing.
Menachem Begin was wanted by the British for terrorism only to become later the prime minister.
In July 2006, Israelis, including the past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the Menachem Begin Centre. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated."

 

[Colpy]

Simple fact from history , you all can do a little research on who was behind King David Hotel bombing.
Menachem Begin was wanted by the British for terrorism only to become later the prime minister.
In July 2006, Israelis, including the past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the Menachem Begin Centre. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated."

What's your point? Yassir Arafat, hero of the Palestinian cause and first President of the Palestinian Authority, was a murderer of epic proportion compared to Begin.......and a thief of billions (that's right, with a "b") of dollars intended for his people.....and a destroyer of all hopes for peace with his call to the second intifada.....

So, what's your point????

 

[Goober]

Simple fact from history , you all can do a little research on who was behind King David Hotel bombing.
Menachem Begin was wanted by the British for terrorism only to become later the prime minister.
In July 2006, Israelis, including the past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the Menachem Begin Centre. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated."

seomul

I also suggest you dig deeper and see how the Brits let arms shipments into Palestine for the Arabs and mad a concerted effort to disarm the Jews - Turning over strategic points to Arbs that were according to the Partition plan to be isreali -
Dig that hole for yourself.

The Brits actively worked in every way possible to thwart the Isrealis - Read your history.

 

[Liberalman]

This says it all Palistine must give up and get on with their lives


YouTube - Wavin' Flag - K'naan With Lyrics

Wavin' Flag lyrics

When i get older, they'll call me freedom
Just like a Waving Flag.

[Chorus]
When I get older, I will be stronger,
They'll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag,
And then it goes back, and then it goes back,
And then it goes back

Born to a throne, stronger than Rome
but Violent prone, poor people zone,
But it's my home, all I have known,
Where I got grown, streets we would roam.
But out of the darkness, I came the farthest,
Among the hardest survival.
Learn from these streets, it can be bleak,
Except no defeat, surrender retreat,

So we struggling, fighting to eat and
We wondering when we'll be free,
So we patiently wait, for that fateful day,
It's not far away, so for now we say

[Chorus]

So many wars, settling scores,
Bringing us promises, leaving us poor,
I heard them say, love is the way,
Love is the answer, that's what they say,
But look how they treat us, Make us believers,
We fight their battles, then they deceive us,
Try to control us, they couldn't hold us,
Cause we just move forward like Buffalo Soldiers.

But we struggling, fighting to eat,
And we wondering, when we'll be free
So we patiently wait, for that faithful day,
It's not far away, but for now we say,

[Chorus] 2x

(Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhhh Ohhhh)
And everybody will be singing it
(Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhhh Ohhhh)
And you and I will be singing it
(Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhhh Ohhhh)
And we all will be singing it
(Ohhh Ohh Ohh Ohh)

[Chorus] 2x

When I get older, when I get older
I will be stronger, just like a Waving Flag,
Just like a Waving Flag, just like a Waving flag
Flag, flag, Just like a Waving Flag

Hamas are tricking the people of Palistine to fight when all they have to do is give up and get on with their lives

 

[darkbeaver]

Undefined borders are easier to move.

Both in the material world and the intellectual world. Their border is the surface of the sphere.

 

[Liberalman]

Both in the material world and the intellectual world. Their border is the surface of the sphere.

really

 

[earth_as_one]

EAO

CanaduhYour quote "the fact they dont own the media like the jews do. Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card"

How can you excuse the above statement as anything but Anti Semitic -
And do not preach Rational discussion to me - I agree that both sides have committed War crimes - yet you in that one eyed look always blame Israel -

I ask questions yet you do not answer - Little difference between you and MHZ -

I tried and tried to keep this rational yet the 2 of you keep on with the same old tripe

Also your posts are to long and all over the place - Perhaps you should look at what rational is -

And it is not excusing a Racist like Canaduh.

Christ on a crutch but you are so blinded by hatred of Jews and Israel that you cannot see - They are all guilty - some more so than others -

But to you and MHZ - it is always Israel -

Regardless i am off to bed as i start work quite early -

I can't speak for Canadah, but his statement "Every time the Israels do something or someone speaks out against them they play the holocaust get out of jail free card" is one line of thought in this book written by Jewish American academic Norman Finklestein:

THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY: REFLECTIONS ON THE EXPLOITATION OF JEWISH SUFFERING (Second Edition)

In 2007, Raul Hilberg, most distinguished historian on the Nazi holocaust and member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, said:

"...Finkelstein, when he published this book, was alone. It takes an enormous amount of academic courage to speak the truth when no one else is out there to support him. And so, I think that given this acuity of vision and analytical power, demonstrating that the Swiss banks did not owe the money, that even though survivors were beneficiaries of the funds that were distributed, they came, when all is said and done, from places that were not obligated to pay that money. That takes a great amount of courage in and of itself. So I would say that his place in the whole history of writing history is assured, and that those who in the end are proven right triumph, and he will be among those who will have triumphed, albeit, it so seems, at great cost."
('World-Renowned Holocaust, Israel Scholars Defend DePaul Professor Norman Finkelstein as He Fights for Tenure', Democracy NOW!, 05.09.2007 )
Hilberg comments on the first edition of The Holocaust Industry:

"When I read Finkelstein's book, The Holocaust Industry , at the time of its appearance, I was in the middle of my own investigations of these matters, and I came to the conclusion that he was on the right track. I refer now to the part of the book that deals with the claims against the Swiss banks, and the other claims pertaining to forced labor. I would now say in retrospect that he was actually conservative, moderate and that his conclusions are trustworthy. He is a well-trained political scientist, has the ability to do the research, did it carefully, and has come up with the right results. I am by no means the only one who, in the coming months or years, will totally agree with Finkelstein's breakthrough."

More of Hilberg's statements on The Holocaust Industry and Finkelstein here.

Norman G. Finkelstein

You can read the book or get a summary by Finklestein himself in this interview:
YouTube - Norman Finkelstein on suffering, morality and justification p1

The Nazi Holocaust was a terrible, horrendous atrocity. Its exploitation for personal profit and as a political weapon to stifle criticism of Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity is disgusting.

Its not that different than how disgusting you are when you play the anti-Semiticism card against anyone who dares criticize Israel. Abusing anti-Semiticism as a weapon to stifle legitimate criticism of Israel diminishes the meaning of anti-Semiticism which IMO is a real problem.

But you aren't alone. Both anti-semiticism and the holocaust have both been abused recently as a means to discredit the UN's Goldstone Report, which details both Israeli and Palestinian war crimes as well as Israeli crimes against humanity:

Israel calls UN Gaza report 'anti-Semitic'
(AFP)

JERUSALEM — A UN report on Israel's 22-day offensive against Hamas-controlled Gaza is anti-Semitic, an Israeli government minister said, as the Jewish state prepares to formally respond to its allegations of war crimes.

"The Goldstone Report ... and similar reports, are simply a type of anti-Semitism," Diaspora and Information Minister Yuli Edelstein told the YNet news agency ahead of a trip to New York, where he will present Israel's rebuttal on Thursday.

YNet's report suggested the Israeli leadership is planning an all-out attack on the report to coincide with Wednesday's anniversary of the 1945 liberation of Auschwitz....


...The report -- endorsed by the UN General Assembly in November -- accuses both Israel and Palestinian armed groups of having committed war crimes in the Gaza offensive which Israel launched on December 27, 2008.

It also recommended that its conclusions should be referred to the International Criminal Court if Israel and Hamas fail to carry out credible investigations.

AFP: Israel calls UN Gaza report 'anti-Semitic'

Read the Goldstone report for yourself:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict

or read the 2009 Amnesty International Annual Report regarding Israel and the Occupied Territories:
Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories | Amnesty International Report 2009


or consider a Palestinian viewpoint:

Israel's Crimes against Palestinians: War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, Genocide

by Francis A. Boyle​

(The author served as Legal Adviser to the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East peace Negotiations from 1991 to 1993. The viewpoints expressed here are his own.)

The International Laws of Belligerent Occupation​

Belligerent occupation is governed by The Hague Regulations of 1907, as well as by the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and the customary laws of belligerent occupation. Security Council Resolution 1322 (2000), paragraph 3 continued: "Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and its responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in a Time of War of 12 August 1949;..." Again, the Security Council vote was 14 to 0, becoming obligatory international law.​

The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are "protected persons" within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.​

There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes.​

So this is not a symmetrical situation. As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes. Conversely, the Palestinian People are defending Themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian.​

Israel's Crimes against Palestinians: War Crimes, Crimes Against.. (by Francis Boyle) - Media Monitors Network

Clearly Israel has not fulfilled any of the conditions they agreed to honor when they were recognized by the UN as I already stated here:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...5-israel-right-exist-state-2.html#post1211240

 

[YukonJack]

Are you also asking: Does Canada have a right to exist?

 

[earth_as_one]

I would agree that Canada's history has many similarities to the Zionist colonization of Palestine. But there are also some important differences.

Canada's first nations people have the same citizenship and rights as other Canadians. They also have special rights not afforded other Canadians. Currently millions of Palestinians have no citizenship and no recognized rights, not even to adequate food and medicine.

When the first Europeans (I'm referencing the French) came to Canada, they tended to live with the people already here. Many Canadians have mixed first nation and European ancestry. When the Zionists took over most of Palestine in 1947, they ethnically cleansed most of the areas they controlled of non-Jewish inhabitants. The result remains the world's biggest and longest lasting refugee problem. Currently Canada has no first nations refugees. At times Canada has had first nations refugees, (mostly fleeing the US), but we've successfully dealt with most them. Most were granted Canadian citizenship and equal rights.

Israel has some non-Jewish Arab citizens, but they lack the same rights as Jewish Israelis.
'Stop treating Arab citizens like enemies' - Israel News, Ynetnews

Canada still has many outstanding first nation issues, but for the most part we've moved past violent confrontation and have resolved many problems peacefully with agreements and treaties. Israel is still in the violent confrontation, illegal annexation and colonization phase.

I'll stop criticizing Israel when they start treating Palestinians as well as Canada currently treats Canadian First Nations people.

 

[ironsides]

Look how long it took Canada to treat its First Nation people equally.

 

[MHz]

Look how long it took Canada to treat its First Nation people equally.

That is still a work in progress.

 

[Goober]

EAO

What I have stated time and again is that you continuously overlook any action taken by the Palestinians and in particular the Terrorist that are supported by a substantial number - Now you are the one that came right out the the Racist Closet in full bloom -

Say what you want but your own words condemn you. Your words - Twist and turn in the wind - try to avoid it but you have Anti-Semite tattooed all over your posts.

You hate Jews - You and some others that inhabit this forum also hate Jews - Deny all you want but I for one will not fall for that Goebbels strategy you use - A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth -


Your words -

I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.

 

[Cliffy]

EAO

What I have stated time and again is that you continuously overlook any action taken by the Palestinians and in particular the Terrorist that are supported by a substantial number - Now you are the one that came right out the the Racist Closet in full bloom -

Say what you want but your own words condemn you. Your words - Twist and turn in the wind - try to avoid it but you have Anti-Semite tattooed all over your posts.

You hate Jews - You and some others that inhabit this forum also hate Jews - Deny all you want but I for one will not fall for that Goebbels strategy you use - A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth -


Your words -

I would agree that the holocaust is an important historical event, but that's not why it gets so much news coverage. I'm inclined to agree with Canaduh's and Finklestein's observations regarding the constant and overwhelming Holocaust news coverage. Its being used as cover for Israeli atrocities.

Goob,
I see no racism in the statement. I only see a political statement of fact. I think you are reading into it your own personal prejudiced toward EAO.