A spanked child may be a better adult

[countryboy]

You can't. nesasarily, blame the parents for that. There are plenty of places for children to learn new and wonderful words and phrases when they hit school. I know, I for one, did not learn to swear from my parents. Neither said a cuss word in front of us kids when we were young but I could make a sailor blush by the time I was 9/10.

Me too, Gerry. I even customized some of the words to make them even more effective! :lol:

However, I was pretty careful where and when I used them, and screaming them at the top of my lungs in public wasn't one of the places to use them. You see, I was afraid of the consequences from my Dad as I had been taught - very directly...you could say, "military style" - that disgracing myself in public in any way, shape, or form would result in physical consequences. That "disgrace" included failure to show respect for other people.

The kids in the mall to whom I was referring don't seem to give a damn what they say, or where, or when. They don't seem to understand the concept of "there's a time and place for everything." And I think the parents somehow figured into this scenario, perhaps by not effectively pointing out that it might be wrong. I'm only guessing and going by what I observe...I'm not an official expert on these things. Just another concerned human being with parenting experience.

 

[countryboy]

That's one of the sadnesses about our modern day urban oriented society. Three years is not too young to teach a reasonably intelligent three year old anything
, or at very least to begin the learning process in any walk of life. There are a couple of good books that illustrate this well (non fiction books) written by British Columbia pioneers, one is "Three Against the Wilderness" by Eric Collier and another is "Never Fly Over an Eagle's Nest" by Joe Garner. (I actually knew Joe Garner when I was a young boy) Being in writing and published so I'm fairly sure these events are not "anecdotal", but I'm sure if it is that will disqualify it- but then I guess all the History books are anecdotal too.....................:smile::smile:

Well, I'd bet some of those history books count, but only if they contain the "right" information to support a particular point of view. Call it "selective referencing skills" and some people are very "expert" at that!

 

[gerryh]

Not to mention all the thousands of sad cases of children who were put on that f*^)(^* Riddalin by the "experts"

My 2 oldest boys are in that group. My 2 youngest, we flatly refused and home schooled when nesasary. Youngest is in grade 9 now, and his older brother will be entering University this spring after graduating 6 months early. He will be the first of my mothers grandchildren to go to university, and she doesn't just have my 7 kids.

Me too, Gerry. I even customized some of the words to make them even more effective! :lol:

However, I was pretty careful where and when I used them, and screaming them at the top of my lungs in public wasn't one of the places to use them. You see, I was afraid of the consequences from my Dad as I had been taught - very directly...you could say, "military style" - that disgracing myself in public in any way, shape, or form would result in physical consequences. That "disgrace" included failure to show respect for other people.

The kids in the mall to whom I was referring don't seem to give a damn what they say, or where, or when. They don't seem to understand the concept of "there's a time and place for everything." And I think the parents somehow figured into this scenario, perhaps by not effectively pointing out that it might be wrong. I'm only guessing and going by what I observe...I'm not an official expert on these things. Just another concerned human being with parenting experience.

Same here, swearing where anyone besides kids could hear, could have meant something akin to a death sentence for me....lol

 

[damngrumpy]

JLM back a couple of pages you mentioned someone would have to have a lot of patients to reason a situation through with a child and more patients than you have.
Well in all the family had seven kids under one roof. Now I communicate with a total
of 23 grand kids at one time or another. We also have 1 great grand kid and two more on the way. I believe if you are going to have children who can think things through in adult life you have to go through the process many times with them as a child. I never did a punishment when angry. The mystery of what I might do was often enough. I wanted my kids and I want my grand kids to respect me not fear me.
I am a farmer, and farmers think about things a lot while working alone. I always made the punishment a learning experience and as pleasant a one as possible under
the circumstances. I was trying to correct behavior not create resentment that lingers.
I as a parent was not in the business of having my kids like me all the time. but I always tried to have them learn something. If possible, they would learn how to avoid the mistake they made and how to make better decisions in the future.
After all children are supposed to act up, they are supposed to make mistakes and they are supposed to challenge authority its how they learn the boundaries of life.
Hitting does nothing, is means there is pain instead of finding a better solution to a
problem. Sorry a spanking is a parents admission of defeat, because they have no other solution.

 

[countryboy]

It was the same in our household, VanIsle. Misdeed never went unpunished in our house either. If our son did something that deserved discipline, I would explain to him what he did wrong and that he was going to be punished. Then I would wait 24 hours, I didn’t want to give excessive punishment out of anger. When you are close to the event, you may not be able to think objectively.

I would think over it for 24 hours. The next day I would let him plead his case. Only after that I would hand down the punishment (it did happen once, after listening to his pleadings, I saw that there were extenuating circumstances and I reduced the punishment as a result). It was never spanking, of course. But withdrawal of privileges, no television for a few days (those were the days before the computer) etc.

But misdeed never went unpunished in our house as well.

Well, I am sincerely glad that that approach worked for you. I really am.

I'm not sure it would work for everyone though. My grandfather - who helped "successfully" raise 11 children - had a different approach. He used to tell me it that training a horse was similar in some respects to training a young child. If a "misbehaviour" was not addressed - along with the administration of consequences or punishment - immediately following the incident, then the lesson learned wouldn't "stick" as well. Or perhaps not at all.

Mind you, he had to figure all that out himself as there weren't many experts to tell him what to do out on the Manitoba prairie back in the 1920s. He had to rely on his own judgement and common sense, which seems to no longer be necessary, at least for some.

 

[gerryh]

Sorry a spanking is a parents admission of defeat, because they have no other solution.

good on you for always haveing the solutions, no matter what your children did Saint Grumpy.

 

[countryboy]

Definition of spanking is very simple, countryboy. Spanking is inflicting physical pain of any kind, whether it be by hand, cane, belt or a switch.

That might be a bit simplistic. What about that iron cord that was mentioned earlier? And, does that mean when my mother (who was a nurse) put my dislocated shoulder back in place - by her dreaded "hand" - that she was spanking me? I can tell you it was most definitely painful.

Obviously, I'm being a bit nit-picky, the point I am making is this:

If you're going to tell me that "Definition of spanking is..." without qualifying that it's YOUR definition, then I'm going to pick away at the obvious holes in it. Why?

Two reasons...
1. Some new parent-to-be might be reading these posts, and I'd to see them get started off with any incorrect information and
2. I'm having a bit of fun because you once told me in a post that you're here for the fun. At that time, I told you that I was here primarily to learn things from others, but since then, I have discovered that element of "fun." Thanks for that!

 

[countryboy]

You pointed out the solution yourself, countryboy. Little children should not be near the farm machinery. Time enough to teach them about farm machinery when they are old enough to understand.

Why do 2 or 3 year old need to know about safety of farm machinery? The sensible solution (instead of beating the children) is to keep them away from the farm machinery.

I suspect perhaps you've never spent much time on a farm. Not introducing the concept of farm machinery safety to young children by keeping them away from it would be a bit like teaching your child to swim without going near the water.

A farm is a bit different that living in a big city. In cities, things are controlled and organized differently...most things are all nice and neatly packaged packaged up in their own little places. The streets are nice and clean, the supermarkets have those nice little packages of steaks all neatly displayed on the cooler shelf, and life is just one big bowl of neat & tidy cherries.

A good-sized farm is a bit like having your own city. You have your own utility systems to manage (the water doesn't magically flow out of the faucet unless you make it happen), you are much closer to life and death (if there are animals on the farm) because children get to see it first hand, and one can even get cowsh*t on their shoes once in a while. And there is usually machinery somewhere that is potentially dangerous.

Every thing on a farm is potentially part of a learning experience, and a very worthwhile one, and yet, there is potential for death and disaster everywhere. Certainly there are limits as to what a child should be exposed to, but your point about keeping them away from potential danger sources can be a double-edged sword.

The longer the realities and risks are kept hidden from a child, the more the potential there is for a disaster to take place. Teaching them about safety on the farm is far from a classroom exercise. It requires hands-on training, and there might be times when a swat on the butt is an appropriate way of getting their attention and letting them know that something like a grain auger is a deadly device.

Of course, that would depend on the urgency of the situation and the parent involved, and I'm surmising that they are a hell of a lot more qualified than you or me to make that judgement call. And, it's their responsibility.

 

[countryboy]

My 2 oldest boys are in that group. My 2 youngest, we flatly refused and home schooled when nesasary. Youngest is in grade 9 now, and his older brother will be entering University this spring after graduating 6 months early. He will be the first of my mothers grandchildren to go to university, and she doesn't just have my 7 kids.



Same here, swearing where anyone besides kids could hear, could have meant something akin to a death sentence for me....lol

I can relate! My brother and I sometimes wondered if we were going to live long enough to get into high school! :lol: No that we ever misbehaved, of course...

 

[TenPenny]

i would think it is a far better thing to occasionally spank a child, and make sure he knows that he is loved, than to let him grow up fat.

 

[JLM]

And how do you know that that indeed is the case? And spanking your own kid is a strange way to show consideration for others in the store. I am sure many people in the store would much rather she uses nonviolent means to discipline her child, rather than spank him ‘out of consideration to others’.

What usually happens is that the young mother is frustrated out of her wits and takes her frustration out on her child. The child is acting out, so the mother acts out in her own right.

I seriously doubt that the young mother who is out shopping, who has many more things to do after shopping, who is harried, run off her feet doing the chores is acting out of consideration for anybody.

I think we are mainly agreed that punishment should be swift and immediate after the "crime"- so when shopping in a grocery store just what punishment would you recommend S.J. as I don't believe most stores have a chair parked in a corner specifically for young brats.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

i would think it is a far better thing to occasionally spank a child, and make sure he knows that he is loved, than to let him grow up fat.

I'm not certain what the 'fat' reference is for, but I was the recipient of a few spankings when I was a child - I was also the recipient of numerous verbal reprimands. which one worked best? It all had to do with the situation.
I'll say the same for my children. When they were very young, words only worked to a certain extent. When it was something that didn't involve their endangering their well being - they were spoken to, received time outs or were put in their rooms for 1/2 an hour. But if they did something dangerous or potentially dangerous? A swift smack on the clothed backside with the hand (never another object) was best - for mine anyway. It was not so much pain (not much pain through layers of clothing), but the unusualness that let them realize that what they were doing was wrong. I might add that no disciplinary action was taken unless there was an explanation.
For anyone to say that one is better over another is ridiculous. Every child is different and therefore every form of discipline must suit the child. I had one child that responded well to words, the other needed consequences.
Having said all that, there is a line that separates spanking from beating - just as there is a line separating a verbal reprimand from a verbal put down.

 

[TenPenny]

I think we are mainly agreed that punishment should be swift and immediate after the "crime"- so when shopping in a grocery store just what punishment would you recommend S.J. as I don't believe most stores have a chair parked in a corner specifically for young brats.

Well, a spanking is definitely out; after all, it apparently is a proven thing that all spanking is done in anger by incompetent parents, and therefore is child abuse which scars children for life.

Probably a 30 minute lecture on the importance of maintaining one's composure would do.

 

[TenPenny]

For anyone to say that one is better over another is ridiculous.

Apparently, you're wrong. Or so I have been told.

 

[JLM]

Not at all, TenPenny. We listen to the experts. And having raised a boy without ever laying a hand on him, I know from personal experience that experts know what they are talking about.

What makes your "anecdotal evidence" more valuable than C.B.'s or Wolf's or Anna's or TenPenny's or mine? I'd say we have you outnumbered at least five to one.

 

[DaSleeper]

It was the same in our household, VanIsle. Misdeed never went unpunished in our house either. If our son did something that deserved discipline, I would explain to him what he did wrong and that he was going to be punished. Then I would wait 24 hours, I didn’t want to give excessive punishment out of anger. When you are close to the event, you may not be able to think objectively.

I would think over it for 24 hours. The next day I would let him plead his case. Only after that I would hand down the punishment (it did happen once, after listening to his pleadings, I saw that there were extenuating circumstances and I reduced the punishment as a result). It was never spanking, of course. But withdrawal of privileges, no television for a few days (those were the days before the computer) etc.

But misdeed never went unpunished in our house as well.

Everybody's anecdotal evidence is irrelevant but yours....guess that makes you special:roll:
That kid of yours must be realy old...My daughter is 38 and she was 8 , 9 or ten when we had a Comodore Vic20 that I wrote games in basic for her and her younger brother.... a few years later it was the 64 with real floppy disks......how old is that son of yours again:lol:

 

[TenPenny]

What makes your "anecdotal evidence" more valuable than C.B.'s or Wolf's or Anna's or TenPenny's or mine? I'd say we have you outnumbered at least five to one.

Because he is the great I am, that's why.

Haven't you clued in to his awesomeness and utter superiority?

 

[lone wolf]

I can remember showing up at Dad's workplace near shift end for a ride home after spending a PA day in town. Does anyone remember all the tension between kids and parents when longer hair was the statement in the late sixties/early seventies? We were no exception. I was fourteen and mine was over my ears. Dad hated it. A swift boot to the nads wouldn't have hurt as much as when Dad told me he was ashamed to tell his friends at work that I was his son. No spanking ever scarred our relationship so badly.

 

[JLM]

I'm not certain what the 'fat' reference is for, but I was the recipient of a few spankings when I was a child - I was also the recipient of numerous verbal reprimands. which one worked best? It all had to do with the situation.
I'll say the same for my children. When they were very young, words only worked to a certain extent. When it was something that didn't involve their endangering their well being - they were spoken to, received time outs or were put in their rooms for 1/2 an hour. But if they did something dangerous or potentially dangerous? A swift smack on the clothed backside with the hand (never another object) was best - for mine anyway. It was not so much pain (not much pain through layers of clothing), but the unusualness that let them realize that what they were doing was wrong. I might add that no disciplinary action was taken unless there was an explanation.
For anyone to say that one is better over another is ridiculous. Every child is different and therefore every form of discipline must suit the child. I had one child that responded well to words, the other needed consequences.
Having said all that, there is a line that separates spanking from beating - just as there is a line separating a verbal reprimand from a verbal put down.

Bingo- right in every respect.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It's not just me S.J. (nor would I be so conceited to think it should be) but there's at least half a dozen other posters here telling you the same thing, and to not listen to them is just crass arrogance. Yet you will believe someone who writes something in a book.

It doesn’t matter how many of them tell me, JLM. None of them are experts, they are all expressing their personal opinion, nothing more. If you want to find out expert opinion, just Google for ‘spanking’. You will find a whole host of articles by child experts, child psychologists outlining the negative consequences of spanking. The only ones who praise spanking to high Heaven are the right wing extremists, the religious right.

So half a dozen posters disagreeing with me means nothing, I am used to much bigger disagreement than that.