A spanked child may be a better adult

[countryboy]

Yeah, I can agree with you there, to a point, but I do hope
over the years, parents learn how to cope with the behavior of their children, by taking more time, learning to handle
children who are misbehaving, with more intelligent methods,
as hitting a child isn't the way to go, but it is harder
to figure out how to do it 'better'.

People have been doing this sort of thing for a long time. I don't think "love" has changed much over the centuries, although I'm sure some people more "progressive" than me might disagree. Although the surrounding environments have changed a lot (new technologies, for example), I doubt that the essence of child raising really has.

I can say that I have a bit of a problem with someone telling me that there is a "new, improved way" to raise children - I don't happen to believe that is possible. After all, the scorecard on child raising gets reset to zero every time a couple has a child for the first time. It's certainly "new" to them, but not to the rest of the world. There are certainly benefits to listening to advice for those who feel they need it to build a sense of confidence, but the final decision on what to do is up to them.

I doubt that there are any perfect parents with perfect children anywhere in the world or in history. We're all human, and we do the best we can.

Having a child is a big, life-changing experience and I remember the moment of my first daughter's birth like it was yesterday. And she'll turn 25 tomorrow! (Now where did THAT quarter century go?!?)

 

[VanIsle]

You are only making my point, VanIsle. Most parents spank out of anger and it can quickly get out of control.

You say you were beaten across bare legs with an iron cord (what is an iron cord anyway? Sounds rather nasty). Can you honestly say that there was no possibility of any bones being broken in the process? Perhaps a stroke gone awry or a stroke delivered too hard? At times the spanking is so hard that the child has to be hospitalized. Had you read my post you would have known what an iron cord was. I can honestly say that no bones would have been broken. An iron cord in those days was like the cord you plug into a frying pan for goodness sakes. In the almost 19 years that I had him, if that was the only "spanking" I recall, I didn't get much did I? I was being pretty lippy and demanding at the time.

If spanking is so wonderful, why did you have to cover up for the kids? But that is what one parent will usually do. If one parent has a severe temper and tendency to give severe spanking, the other parent will generally shield the children, let them get away with crimes for which they should be disciplined (not spanked, but disciplined).
I wasn't concerned about the spanking. My husband can be a "yeller" at times. I hate yelling. His Mom was a "hitter" so he doesn't like it himself.

Spanking is sordid business no matter how you look at it; I don’t think anything good comes out of it. And it has a very real possibility of doing severe, long lasing harm (both physically and emotionally).

I don't agree with long lasting harm from a spanking. A beating however is much much different.. If a spanking gets severe, it's no longer a spanking. It's a beating. I have given my kids little spankings but then sat them down and explained what they did wrong and told them how much I love them. Hugs at that time go a long ways and the little spank doesn't do any harm. Short term or long term.

 

[AnnaG]

IMO, spanking is a single, light swat on a clothed backside with an open hand. But, I think everyone has their own definition.
Anyway, we found other ways of correcting behaviors. The best and most often-used tool we had was positive reinforcement. We rewarded effort, not accomplishment. Most of the time accomplishment came quickly anyway. If one of our kids did something against our wishes, we faced them squarely and told her stuff like "Sweetheart, you are a bright kid and will know better next time that behavior like that is not nice, won't you?" "Let's figure out how to make this better. Have you an idea?" Label the behavior, not the kid.
Positive reinforcement is adding something to increase a behavior. Reward for cleaning a room. for instance.
Negative reinforcement is taking something bad away to increase a behavior. IE, like a mother nagging a kid day after day until he/she mows the lawn. When the lawn gets mowed, the nagging stops.
Positive punishment refers to adding something aversive in order to decrease a behavior. IE, "Go pull weeds in the garden until you decide not to do that again".
Negative punishment is removing something in order to decrease a behavior. "You get no tv for a week for doing that."
Keeping those in mind sure saved the kids and us a lot of unpleasantness.

 

[TenPenny]

"Sweetheart, you are a bright kid and will know better next time that behavior like that is not nice, won't you?" "Let's figure out how to make this better. Have you an idea?"

Reminds me of when I was a kid. The worst part about getting caught doing something wrong was having to listen to the long explanation of why the behaviour was wrong, what we need to do to correct it, yadda yadda yadda.

Wake me up when you're finished with the lecture, ma.

 

[Francis2004]

Francis I guess it depends on your definition of spanking. To some people a spanking is a beating. To others it's a tap on the hands or the butt. Taps are all that are necessary. Anyone who beats a child should be jailed. I agree that talking it out, taking away privileges are great but as you stated, your daughter knew you would carry through with your threat but many children know the incident will be over with the moment they leave the store with the item they wanted in hand.

And what would be your definition of a tap on the butt ?

Is it the same as in the child's mind ?

Again, going to personal experience.. I told my daughter I would bite her back if took a bite out of me and of course she just had to do it one time.. So one day at the mall she took a good chunk out of my arm. So in return all I did was put my teeth on her little arm.. To this day she swears it was as bad as me biting her literally into her arm.. That was 12 years ago, she was 6 years old back then.. Yet I did not even leave a tooth mark, not even a bit of saliva on her while I was bleeding like heck..

In her mind I had bitten her and that's how she recalls it.. Pain and all.. But she acknowledges there was no teeth marks and no blood and amazes at how it was real..

 

[Walter]

My children were given a 'warm bottom' when they were tiny if it was warranted. The warm bottom was given immediately, or as soon after the offence is possible just as you would train a dog. Nicer kids, who are very successful at school and involved in the church and community, you will have trouble finding.

 

[PDeverit]

Letter of the law or spirit of the law?:

Spirit of the law or letter of the law?: The vast majority of professionals agree that child buttock-battering isn’t healthy. A marginal few (mostly religious fundamentalists as those at Calvin) think that child bottom-slapping is good. They use the same selective literalist interpretation of the Bible as was used to justify “witch”-burning, depraved torture methods for those accused of sin and heresy, slavery, racism, wife-beating, oppression of women and a host of other social ills.

 

[PDeverit]

People used to think it was necessary to "spank" adult members of the community, military trainees, and prisoners. In some countries they still do. In our country, it is considered sexual assault if a person over the age of 18 is "spanked", but only if over the age of 18.

For one thing, buttock-battering can vibrate the pudendal nerve, which can lead to sexual arousal. There are multitudinous other physiological ways in which it can be sexually abusive, but I won't list them all here. One can use the resources I've posted if they want to learn more.

Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering (euphemistically labeled "spanking","swatting","switching","smacking", "paddling",or other cute-sounding names) for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research with the recommended reads-visit the website of Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education.

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
American Psychological Association,
Center For Effective Discipline,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

 

[countryboy]

Spirit of the law or letter of the law?: The vast majority of professionals agree that child buttock-battering isn’t healthy. A marginal few (mostly religious fundamentalists as those at Calvin) think that child bottom-slapping is good. They use the same selective literalist interpretation of the Bible as was used to justify “witch”-burning, depraved torture methods for those accused of sin and heresy, slavery, racism, wife-beating, oppression of women and a host of other social ills.

I wouldn't get my knickers in a knot about what the "vast majority of professionals" think, or a bunch of Bible extremists...what do YOU think?

 

[PDeverit]

Pardon for the duplicate posts, but I made another post and am not seeing it appear here, so I thought it was due to an error.

 

[Nuggler]

Geez, you are just plain mean there Countryboy...............:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

But bang on the money;-) :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Francis2004]

I really don't care if people spank their kids or not.. That is not my call to decide if they abuse them or not. That's a social services call / police call for the most part unless it's a real bad beating and even then all one can do is make a call.

How their kids will view them or life in the future will be up to those kids.. And if the kids view it as Abuse will be another subject.

However if alternatives can be found and used as means to have a much better quality of life for my children and I am called names for using them, then so be it..

Having seen and lived both sides I can express MY OPINION on both.. Too bad some would rather call me names and try to remove my right from me instead of trying to understand what I am saying.. Sorry I am not as able to express myself as you are..

 

[JLM]

Reminds me of when I was a kid. The worst part about getting caught doing something wrong was having to listen to the long explanation of why the behaviour was wrong, what we need to do to correct it, yadda yadda yadda.

Wake me up when you're finished with the lecture, ma.

Most kids are not stupid and 99% of them know when and what they are doing is wrong, they just weren't quite smart enough not to get caught- when they tell the teacher to *^)* off or push over Farmer Brown's outhouse, they know it's wrong- that is any kid over 4. Maybe some of the subtleties of ettiquette needs explaining, but the lying, stealing, cheating and insubordination they know is wrong.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Another option would be to simply keep the child away from those situations completely. However, it would teach them nothing about safety around farm machinery and limit their overall development by missing out on valuable experiences.

You pointed out the solution yourself, countryboy. Little children should not be near the farm machinery. Time enough to teach them about farm machinery when they are old enough to understand.

Why do 2 or 3 year old need to know about safety of farm machinery? The sensible solution (instead of beating the children) is to keep them away from the farm machinery.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP, with all due respect, all that shows is that you don't understand the concept, and it's probably a good thing that you never used spanking.

There are numerous references in literature which tell us that spanking is usually motivated by anger. Maybe you know something different from (and better than) experts, I don’t know.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Whenever I see or hear remarks like these, I wonder if they are a result of a bad upbringing, including a lack of disciplined training in the early years. Appointing oneself judge, jury, and executioner on any subject shows - in addition to arrogance - a complete lack of empathy for other people, in this case, other parents. It's an all too common "rip in the social fabric" of Canada these days.

I wondering what your version of "more harm than good" in reference to spanking really is, in your mind?

That is what the experts say countyboy, and I agree with them. The consensus among child psychologists these days is that spanking rarely does any good, it can do long term damage in some instances.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sure and many times they don't.

You are right, sometimes they don't. However, even where they don't spanking can still have harmful long term effects. As i said before, I prefer to listen to experts, rather than personal experience of somebody.

 

[lone wolf]

You pointed out the solution yourself, countryboy. Little children should not be near the farm machinery. Time enough to teach them about farm machinery when they are old enough to understand.

Why do 2 or 3 year old need to know about safety of farm machinery? The sensible solution (instead of beating the children) is to keep them away from the farm machinery.

Where did you read "2 or 3 year old"? Why do you interpret and manipulate that which is actually on the page into your own peculiar brand of ridiculous? One might think even you had a glimmer of brightness enough to recognize that children are curious. I suppose it would be hard for you to comprehend, having always known everything and all.

Methinks that cat you threw among the pigeons is pooping on you.

 

[countryboy]

You pointed out the solution yourself, countryboy. Little children should not be near the farm machinery. Time enough to teach them about farm machinery when they are old enough to understand.

Why do 2 or 3 year old need to know about safety of farm machinery? The sensible solution (instead of beating the children) is to keep them away from the farm machinery.

2 or 3 year old? Does that mean 4 is the right age? Where did you come up with that?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Have you considered the possibility that the mother might be demonstrating a degree of consideration for other shoppers by bringing this inappropriate behaviour to the immediate attention of the child? "She does so because she is angry with him" has no basis in fact - you have no way of knowing that. It's an assumption on your part, and you make that assumption based on your own prejudice against spanking. Can you not see that? No, of course you can't.

And how do you know that that indeed is the case? And spanking your own kid is a strange way to show consideration for others in the store. I am sure many people in the store would much rather she uses nonviolent means to discipline her child, rather than spank him ‘out of consideration to others’.

What usually happens is that the young mother is frustrated out of her wits and takes her frustration out on her child. The child is acting out, so the mother acts out in her own right.

I seriously doubt that the young mother who is out shopping, who has many more things to do after shopping, who is harried, run off her feet doing the chores is acting out of consideration for anybody.