Philosophical motivation to love God.

[bluedog]

Thank you for the input, it is nice to see someone would care to entertain an idea not associated with Star Trek, Gene Kelly, Gene Roddenberry or Norma Jean.
This is a post under Philosophy, it is biased toward Christian Beliefs I know. I thought as regard Tribal, Roman, Greek and Hebrew Law there would be some debate however. Life can be interesting as well as humorous. I thought though the Sunday funnies only came out out Sunday, stopping after midnight. lol !!!

 

[bluedog]

Karrie thank you

I disagree I suppose.

I don't think any philosophy can motivate us to love anyone or anything. The notion that we love because we are told to love is flawed, as is the idea that we love because we are told someone loves us.

I think if a person has love , that is where it was born, that is where it originated, with that person. It is theirs, and theirs alone. Not born of some philosophy, not scripted, not explained in simple terms of cause and effect.

You quote Bill Withers interestingly. He wrote "Lean on Me" in an effort to get human beings to demonstrate love, he helped to start a movement, so that others would receive Love. He also wrote "Ain't no Sunshine" to demonstrate the power of lost love.


No, "Love" is not born in us, it is demonstrated- or not demonstrated- first by a mother who shows much more than mere nurturing, other species show that correct? Love, can a fantasy if you will, for those who never receive that nurturing, care while children. Karrie we are different than those subspecies in that we can show, care and demonstrate Love in many many more imaginative ways than, monkeys. Correct?

Is Love merely nurturing that has exploded or fantasy?

God, if you need to call Him "fantasy" at first you may, not unlike The Lord of the Rings or Star Trek! If you explore the idea of God, research thousands of years of writings, of miracles in the name of God, you may begin to separate from the fantasy eventually, instead start to question, ponder... the "living" witness of the written and oral History of others, exploring how it changed lives.

Karrie, if you seek to believe, you will develop a faith in a philosophically and proven reality- as testified to by others, long past.

My own L5-S1 back injury was set for surgery after years of diagnosis by numerous neurologists, and specialists who, attempted "scientific therapies" along with their four years of medications. Surgery, my answer they said.

Miracles are done today as well, done in the name of God. A God who asks nothing from you, costing you nothing, but only awaits-a willingness to believe.

One night was prayed over by a woman, a stranger now but someone I knew of, years and years previously. Upset, I was, "intervened" prior to my surgery date by family and friends- all believers whom I scoffed repeatedly, while medicated. I awoke the next morning, perfectly healed. I have never doubted the Lord since.

As doors are opened, spiritually, over time a person realizes what love truly is. It is not just fantasy, it is not just a temporary euphoria. It is not a deep emotional connection that can abide over years despite memories. No, you see for me and others it will grow "amazingly" to be an eternal knowledge, an eternal comfort, than rests the soul despite all treacherous pain and any loathsome torment.

His Love, develops, deepens over time, as your share interaction, your faith relationship with this previoulsy "unknown" God. Others you meet, even those believers, never "exactly", quote the same belief, but faith IS shared. A personal growing faith that brings you an un-abiding love,

Love, from a father that demonstrates to YOU, why He CHOSE to give His only Son that YOU may know Him.
He will also choose, to share with you HOW He has known YOU... Karrie, from the very MOMENT you were conceived!

Allah be Praised
Praise the Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ Forever. Amen.

 

[darkbeaver]

Yeah love can do things no doubt about it.

 

[darkbeaver]

I disagree I suppose.

I don't think any philosophy can motivate us to love anyone or anything. The notion that we love because we are told to love is flawed, as is the idea that we love because we are told someone loves us.

I think if a person has love , that is where it was born, that is where it originated, with that person. It is theirs, and theirs alone. Not born of some philosophy, not scripted, not explained in simple terms of cause and effect.

I think we love because it feels good and I think love is contagious like a smile or a yawn and maybe love belongs to all who can feel its power, you know what they say about love kept under lock and key.

 

[Francis2004]

Not sure why concerning the Christian aspect of your question, but I can answer why the human form part - it's a human invention. Perfectly logical to be considered humanoid.

I used to think that when I still fell for the gobblygook and discovered that it makes sense that there would be aliens. What followed was an impression that it could be whatever who views it wants it to look like. (That was a Star Trekian impression).

hah! I lost faith a looooooong time ago. (Sung to Concrete Blonde's tune called, surprisingly, "A Long Time Ago", then sung to Jim Croce's tune under the same title).

Hi LG, you gave me a good laugh when I saw the Star Trekian reference.

However that was not in the context I mean, although I guess you could look at it having been express that way in quite a few movies / shows and songs as you so rightfully pointed out.

If Earth was made by God, he could certainly is Alien to us, none the less being a God.. Why must he be gobblygook ?

None the less I believe in a God, but I would never deny anyone, the right to have any belief.

 

[china]

"God doesn’t use anger to produce his righteousness in us. His wrath doesn’t move those in hell to love him. God imputes to us Christ’s righteousness, then moves us to obey out of gratitude. We love because he first loved us, not because he first intimidated us."

Agree...
Disagree...
Opposed...

Opinion

?

I can't agree ,disagree or be opposed to something about the unknown .I think that is what you call god , right?
I don't know .

 

[Cliffy]

?

I can't agree ,disagree or be opposed to something about the unknown .I think that is what you call god , right?
I don't know .

In every species, mammalian, reptilian, amphibian and avian it is the feminine that gives birth, the origin of life. It is the mother's love that is without bounds. It is the feminine aspect of the divine that is the source of all life nd love.

So where did this masculine god come from and his man/god son? Who made up this story? The Creator is feminine just like all of her creation. The masculine is nothing more than a sperm donor.

 

[karrie]

No, "Love" is not born in us, it is demonstrated- or not demonstrated- first by a mother

I still disagree. A mother forms love before she demonstrates it. Simply saying that 'mothers love' does not make it so, as many mothers prove every day across this globe by abusing or killing their children. And a child won't just love a person based on the fact that they are their mother. Thus it's still something born in the individual first and foremost, regardless of what people tell us we ought to feel.

And as for the rest. While I will happily discuss philosophy and the basis of religion, etc, with you, I know what my personal relationship with god is, and I don't need you trying to tell me what it is, as much as I know you mean well.

 

[karrie]

I think we love because it feels good and I think love is contagious like a smile or a yawn and maybe love belongs to all who can feel its power, you know what they say about love kept under lock and key.

"We love because it feels good."

I can read that two different ways db.

1, that we love because someone makes us feel good, and it blossoms.

2, that we love because the mere act of loving is what feels good.

 

[In Between Man]

That's all very well, Alley, but I have to be convinced he exists before any of that's going to mean anything. I know of no good reason to think any god is anything more than a human invention, I see no sign of his presence, past or present, and I've never seen anything offered in support of his existence that cannot be explained by much more prosaic means. In fact I've never encountered anything but bad or incomprehensible reasons for believing.

You don't need to be convinced of anything as you already know it. As I mentioned a long time ago in a debate with you, a priori knowledge tells all humans that something is infinite. Either the universe or the cause. That's why we all ask "if God exists, who made God?". Science overwhelmingly tells us that the universe had a beginning, so we know its not infinite. So what fits better, a blind, impersonal natural cause which would have to have its own cause, and that its own cause and so on, OR an all-powerful, personal, intelligent being whose infinite self existence we don't fully understand yet?

 

[In Between Man]

Alley,

If god created Earth and us, would he not be rather POed at what we have done to his creation?

Is he not capable of forgiveness?

Do you think that just because you believe in what is written in a book that you know nothing about (its origins, its history) that it really has any validity for the rest of mankind?

Just because I believe it doesn't make it so, it doesn't make it false either. As for the validity to the rest of mankind, YOU can't even past that part yourself. Either it's valid for mankind or not. But you'd rather claim its valid for ME and maybe Joe, but not you or SJP cuz your smarter than the rest of us and you know the "truth" about the bible's origin. :roll::roll::roll:

What exactly is your belief based on? Personal experience with the divine?

That's a big discussion. My personal experiences are certainly not hanging out in a sweat lodge, listening to a witch chant while I mistake sensualism for spirituality.

To anybody who knows the origin and history of the bible, it is just a bunch of stuff written by men who wanted to control everybody else.

You realize that the writers of the NT had every reason to deny Jesus right? Some gave up prestige and power, all suffered persecution, some even brutal death. Jesus Christ may not have been the son of God, but at the very least the NT writers thought he was.

 

[In Between Man]

I've never seen anything offered in support of his existence that cannot be explained by much more prosaic means.

The carnal mind is excellent at explaining things away. Many people met Jesus, heard him speak, witnessed him heal, but not all believed. The miracles were a trick, a deception, or came from the devil. He was a great speaker, but pray for my enemies? etc.

In fact I've never encountered anything but bad or incomprehensible reasons for believing.

The very fact that you think you have reasons not to believe presupposes God. For you're reasons to be valid it would require the universe to be reasonable place. But nature doesn't reason, it reacts.

 

[petros]

Miracles eh? What are the odds a whack of people living in a low lying area who are poor and can't afford wheat bread shared a loaf of ergot tainted rye bread?

I bet more than just Jesus was walking on water that day.

 

[In Between Man]

Miracles eh? What are the odds a whack of people living in a low lying area who are poor and can't afford wheat bread shared a loaf of ergot tainted rye bread?

I bet more than just Jesus was walking on water that day.

Let me know when your ready to have a serious debate.

 

[Cliffy]

Is he not capable of forgiveness?

Just because I believe it doesn't make it so, it doesn't make it false either. As for the validity to the rest of mankind, YOU can't even past that part yourself. Either it's valid for mankind or not. But you'd rather claim its valid for ME and maybe Joe, but not you or SJP cuz your smarter than the rest of us and you know the "truth" about the bible's origin. :roll::roll::roll:

That's a big discussion. My personal experiences are certainly not hanging out in a sweat lodge, listening to a witch chant while I mistake sensualism for spirituality.

You realize that the writers of the NT had every reason to deny Jesus right? Some gave up prestige and power, all suffered persecution, some even brutal death. Jesus Christ may not have been the son of God, but at the very least the NT writers thought he was.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. I have said it before, the bible is a work of fiction. If it works for you, I am not going to tell you you are wrong, that judgment is up to higher powers.

Your remark about the sweat lodge only shows your ignorance. There are no witches in native spirituality. The sweat lodge is their church. You wouldn't know spirituality if it bit you on the ass. All you know is dogmatic beliefs and working yourself up into a religious frenzy.

The writers of the NT did not believe JC was divine. He was considered a profit until Constantine deified him when he rewrote the bible three hundred years after the fact to suit his own political agenda.

 

[bluedog]

In every species, mammalian, reptilian, amphibian and avian it is the feminine that gives birth, the origin of life. It is the mother's love that is without bounds. It is the feminine aspect of the divine that is the source of all life nd love.

So where did this masculine god come from and his man/god son? Who made up this story? The Creator is feminine just like all of her creation. The masculine is nothing more than a sperm donor.

:fish:Cliffy, don't you believe Love to be so more than mere caring, nurturing and sheltering? Is it not expressed outwardly to many, more than and not limited to offspring?

Cannot YOU and other "males" Love, nurture, protect and care? Unlike ALLL subspecies but a few. You have an incredible "soul" not just a mind! Cliffy you can choose to express your love in limitless, individual ways, not limited by genomes.

The Christian God actually sacrificed his offspring, the Son He indeed conceived in the womb of a virgin, for you. Your forefathers gave their own children, and more, sometimes themselves... as a sacrifice for you to live with certain rights in a country free from Tyranny by an Oppressor. Would your God, yours or mine, do less, in your own imaginings?

I wonder.

 

[darkbeaver]

"We love because it feels good."

I can read that two different ways db.

1, that we love because someone makes us feel good, and it blossoms.

2, that we love because the mere act of loving is what feels good.

I was meaning #1. We cannot make love to another. We can couple in love. There is no act of making love is there? There is only the feeling of love. It's only language afterall and it's a poor medium for love maybe.

 

[bluedog]

Hey brother!

I was meaning #1. We cannot make love to another. We can couple in love. There is no act of making love is there? There is only the feeling of love. It's only language afterall and it's a poor medium for love maybe.

******************************
:fisharkBeaver, my friend.
Thanks for responding!

Do you believe then that love is a feeling? Then. But. Is it only a Shared "state" of the mind like a "Euphoria" that lasts too shortly? Maybe... Could love be an external "state" that attracts, like gravity or... "magnetism" a law of nature, or an achievement shared by two equals- orgasm- just another biological function?

If so my brother, it is either "internal" or acquired... I would suggest that you have yet to taste the depth and breadth of love's limitlessness, such are we all are, seeking.
Have you not yet recognized you too need to receive it- in whatever form, in whatever amount, in that continuum, along any point in your life, otherwise how would you give it away? Fulfilled.

What is your love worth today, ...what today are you yourself worthy of DarkBeaver? Esoteric questions require no answer, just time to ponder.


God loves,
when will you explore the limitlessness?
When? When will you offer Him, yours?
He will demonstrate it for You.

 

[darkbeaver]

"What is your love worth today, ...what today are you yourself worthy of DarkBeaver? Esoteric questions require no answer, just time to ponder."

I do not own love I only know love. Love owned is love lost. My love always belongs to others. We cannot get unless we first give. etc;

 

[Cliffy]

:fish:Cliffy, don't you believe Love to be so more than mere caring, nurturing and sheltering? Is it not expressed outwardly to many, more than and not limited to offspring?

Cannot YOU and other "males" Love, nurture, protect and care? Unlike ALLL subspecies but a few. You have an incredible "soul" not just a mind! Cliffy you can choose to express your love in limitless, individual ways, not limited by genomes.

The Christian God actually sacrificed his offspring, the Son He indeed conceived in the womb of a virgin, for you. Your forefathers gave their own children, and more, sometimes themselves... as a sacrifice for you to live with certain rights in a country free from Tyranny by an Oppressor. Would your God, yours or mine, do less, in your own imaginings?

I wonder.

Let me put it this way (I am trying to communicate in a way you might be able to relate to.) God is love. Everything in creation is part of god. Everything in the universe is created of love. There is no other force in heaven or earth that is not love. Everything else that we see that does not reflect that love is denial. Evil then is ignorance of the truth, a denial of love, a separateness born of the lie of sin and evil that is perpetrated by religion.