What Americans should know about Israel and probably don't.

[earth_as_one]

Israel used to be peaceful place until relatively recently. For hundreds of years Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together with very little conflict compared to most of the rest of the world.

Unfortunately the people living here known as Palestinians had the misfortune of living on land Zionists believed God gave to Jews. As a result these people were ethnically cleansed from the land. I know that's a bold statement. But its also a fact backed up by evidence in Israeli government archives, British archives and personal testimony by all sides of the conflict.

Don't take my word for it. I can point to many sources. For example Jewish Israeli Professor Ilan Pappe:
The Majdal 29: The 1948 Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

More than 60 years of ethnic cleansing, oppression and injustice is bound to create some resentment. These 4.5 million people have no citizenship, land or property. Everything is controlled by Israel. They live in poverty behind walls with guard towers and razor wire. Israel controls everything which officially enters or leaves their penal colonies.

But maybe people should just forgive and forget. Move on, right? Is that what you would tell these Palestinian children?
YouTube - Cairo hospitals treat Gaza's war-scarred children -25 Jan 09

Those Palestinian children know the weapons which did this damage to them were made in the US and paid with your tax tax dollars. What would you tell these children regarding your country buying and supplying the chemical weapons Israel dropped on them?

Before you mention Israel has a right to defend itself, consider the events of November 4, 2008. That's the day the US elected Obama. Its also the same day Israel officially broke their ceasefire agreement with Gaza:

YouTube - Who Broke The Cease Fire - Hamas or Israel 2008

Israel's leaders knew Americans wouldn't notice more fighting in Gaza on such a historic day. How do you feel about Israel using your election day as cover for breaking their ceasefire agreement?

Israel never really respected the terms of their ceasefire agreement or international law from the beginning. Israel was supposed to allow international humanitarian food and medical aid to enter Gaza freely, but that never happened.

YouTube - NO! Hamas is NOT to Blame! Karen Abuzayd United Nations - Gaza massacre

Its true a few militants fired rockets and mortars at Israel in violation of the ceasefire. But Hamas was doing its best to respect the ceasefire and crack down on anyone who violated it:

Hamas arrests militants after rocket fire | Reuters

As per the video above Hamas had pretty much stopped rogue elements in Gaza from violating the truce. So you can understand why Palestinians and UN observers in Gaza might feel Israel broke the ceasefire and was not "defending itself".

For nearly two years now and counting, Israel has blocked food and medical aid from entering Gaza to the point were Gaza children suffer chronic disease and malnutrition.

Don't believe me?

Is Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Amnesty International a good enough source?
Trapped – collective punishment in Gaza | Amnesty International

How about the BBC?
December 2008
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Inside Gaza: Malnutrition and shortages

Living in the US you frequently get the Israeli viewpoint but I doubt you get a Palestinian viewpoint very often:
The Palestine Chronicle: A Leading Online Newspaper on Palestine, Israel and the Middle East

I don't blame Americans for knowing little about the Palestinian side of this conflict. American news deliberately keeps Americans misinformed. That's why an American started this website:

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine


Seeing as Israel's humanitarian aid blockade continues (as well as the chronic malnutrition and disease) with the unshakable support of the US government and billions every year in your tax dollars. How do you feel about your tax dollars being spent to help Israel impose oppression and injustice on millions of Palestinians?

BTW, I'm not being smug. I am Canadian and I am well aware that Canada's leaders also support Israel's continued oppression and injustice too. Our news also doesn't report everything:

Israeli soldiers recently admit committing war crimes in Gaza:
IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement - Haaretz - Israel News

Israeli Settlers commit acts of violence against Palestinians with impunity:
B'Tselem - Settler violence - 10 Dec. '08: Hebron: Willful abandonment by security forces

 

[Colpy]

Oh Dear, where to begin?

Yes yes yes, EAO, we all know that Israel is a pariah.....unless of course, you compare it to ANY of its neighbours.

But you don't like that Idea, do you?

Let's start with Lebanon....in the clutches of Syria.....falling increasingly under the influence of genocidal Hezbollah....its peaceful co-existence destroyed by the PLO in the late 70s. Technically at war with Israel.

Syria.....a dictatorship, and a damned bloody one.....in which the gov't has wiped out entire small cities for supporting dissent. Deeply involved in murder and political intrique in Lebanon, Supports the worst terror groups.....technically at war with Israel.

Lebanon. Best of the bunch. Ruled by a benevolent king who occassionally pays attention to his Parliament....but not often. The nation was smart enough to boot out the PLO in 1973.....they went to Lebanon. (see above) Refuses to consider the return of its West Bank territory because it doesn't want to deal with lunatic Palestinian terror groups. At peace with Israel.

Egypt. Oh my. A supposed democracy, practises extreme suppression of dissent........refuses to consider the return of Gaza, because it does not want to deal with lunatic Palestinian terror groups. At peace with Israel.

Oh, at the same number of Jews were "ethnically cleansed" from Arab countries.......they were absorbed by Israel. The Arab refugees from Israel have been abused consistently by their Arab brothers.



oh yeah, I forgot...

Israel....a Liberal democracy in which EVERYONE gets to vote, and gets the protection of the courts, and in which debate and dissent is tolerated........surrounded by enemies and "occupied territories" they have REPEATEDLY tried to return, and, failing that, tried to turn allow their autonomy........

Israel deserves our support.

Israel is an island of sanity in an ocean of nutbars.

 

[lone wolf]

Israel is a western system imposed on the Arab world. Do you and yours ever consider that the western way is not necessarily the right way either? If arrogants respected boundaries, the Middle East would still be an at peace backwater.

 

[Colpy]

Israel is a western system imposed on the Arab world. Do you and yours ever consider that the western way is not necessarily the right way either? If arrogants respected boundaries, the Middle East would still be an at peace backwater.

Arrogants, throughout the course of history, have never respected boundaries.......

And we are all arrogant....

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

 

[petros]

ASo why do we need more disrespectful people pushing boundaries?

 

[lone wolf]

Arrogants, throughout the course of history, have never respected boundaries.......

And we are all arrogant....

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

...and possibly bigger ones than yours.

Nice softshoe....

 

[Colpy]

...and possibly bigger ones than yours.

Nice softshoe....

Glad you liked it........

 

[petros]

Why do words get nasty when facts are presented?

 

[Zzarchov]

What facts?

1.) the Levant was in no way peaceful, it was a constant series of Arab revolts and Turkish suppressions. Its why the Turks encouraged Jewish frontiersmen to settle there instead of the American west.

2.) None of that matters.

If Colonists back in the 19th and early 20th century were wrong to colonize the Levant under the justification that in the even more distant past their ran the place,

Then Palestinians are wrong now to try and drive out the Israelis because in the past they ran the place.


Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, you can't just selectively apply double standards for morality.

 

[lone wolf]

If neither one can accept "take it or leave it" then accept there will always be war.

 

[petros]

How many peacve agreements have been refused by Israel requiring them to stick to Prop 242?
FACT:
There is one on the table right now all they have to do is sign, ditch the settlements,allow free movement and trade and there is peace.

Why won't they sign? Bye bye arms sales and aid packages for trumped up sympathy.

 

[Zzarchov]

How many peacve agreements have been refused by Israel requiring them to stick to Prop 242?
FACT:
There is one on the table right now all they have to do is sign, ditch the settlements,allow free movement and trade and there is peace.

Why won't they sign? Bye bye arms sales and aid packages for trumped up sympathy.

No, there is no peace.

Hamas has very clearly said there will be no peace until all of Israel is overthrown and replaced by an Islamic government.

See thats the problem with the peace agreements offered to Israel, Israel gives up things, and gets nothing, because the people its actually fighting don't want peace, they want unconditional surrender. They see themselves as Russia after Berlin has already fallen, "why make peace now?", regardless of how deluded they are, they see victory as inevitable.

 

[petros]

Hamas has very clearly said there will be no peace until all of Israel is overthrown and replaced by an Islamic government.

That is malarky. There wuoldn't be a deal drafted sitting in the hands of the Saudis, Syrians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Jordanian, Palestinians, and believe it or not Iranians. Europe supports it too. What are they waiting for?

 

[darkbeaver]

No, there is no peace.

Hamas has very clearly said there will be no peace until all of Israel is overthrown and replaced by an Islamic government.

See thats the problem with the peace agreements offered to Israel, Israel gives up things, and gets nothing, because the people its actually fighting don't want peace, they want unconditional surrender. They see themselves as Russia after Berlin has already fallen, "why make peace now?", regardless of how deluded they are, they see victory as inevitable.

Victory is inevitable. Israel has nothing of its own hand to give anyone.

 

[earth_as_one]

Colpy if you want to start a "What Americans should know about .... and probably don't" on these other countries, don't let me stop you.

But I will deal with each of your diversionary arguments.

Colpy

Let's start with Lebanon....in the clutches of Syria.....falling increasingly under the influence of genocidal Hezbollah....its peaceful co-existence destroyed by the PLO in the late 70s. Technically at war with Israel.

EAO:

Lebanon is divided into many factions each of which have their own militias. Some are pro-west, others pro-Syria and others are neither like the Shi'a Hezbollah.

Lebanon has been at war with Israel since Israel declared independence in 1948 and was overrun by Palestinian refugees fleeing Zionist the ethnic cleansing in Israel. The border between Israel and Lebanon remains disputed. In 1982 Israel invaded and seized parts of southern Lebanon. During this time, Israel was responsible for a series of atrocities in Lebanon. Probably the most outrageous was the Sabra-Shatila massacre which was supervised by former Israeli PM Sharon:

GRAPHIC IMAGES
YouTube - SABRA AND SHATILA MASSACRE

In 2000, Israel withdrew from most of Lebanon, primarily due to Hezbollah. In 2006, Israel re-invaded Lebanon as described in this George Galloway interview by SkyNet.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!
YouTube - Galloway on Israel and lebanon 06/08/2006

Lebanon is a Parliamentary Democratic Republic with more or less free and fair elections.

Most Lebanese remain hostile toward Israel today. Overall the country is screwed up due in part to outside influences including Syria, Israel, the US and Iran.

The average Lebanese citizen is far better off than the average Gazan.

Colpy

Syria.....a dictatorship, and a damned bloody one.....in which the gov't has wiped out entire small cities for supporting dissent. Deeply involved in murder and political intrique in Lebanon, Supports the worst terror groups.....technically at war with Israel.

EAO

Syria. An independent dictatorship. It has a history of coups, coups attempts and civil wars. A failed assassination attempt on the dictator in 1980 lead to a series reprisals which led to a Muslim Fundamentalist uprising and resulted in the Hama massacre.
Hama massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite Syria's brutal and violent history, its been relatively safe and peaceful since the 1980's. Syria has a corrupt, rigged electoral system and is officially run by previous dictator's son. Syria will likely remain peaceful until the next coup attempt or an attack by Israel.

Syria has been at war with Israel since 1948. The border between Syria and Israel remains disputed. In 1967 Israel seized the Golan Heights from Syrian control.

Syria's economy depends heavily on access to the Mediterranean sea through Lebanon.

Like Israel, Syria practices torture and holds political prisoners indefinitely. But unlike Israel, Syria does not practice ethnic cleansing, award rights based on ethnicity or religion or imprison entire regions of the country behind walls, razor wire and guard towers. Syria's government isn't collectively starving any of their civilian population or blocking international food and medical aid. Syria isn't dropping chemical weapons on any of its civilian population. As long as Syrians don't try to overthrow the dictator, they are all equally protected.

The average Syrian is far better off than the average Gazan.

Colpy

(Jordan)... Best of the bunch. Ruled by a benevolent king who occassionally pays attention to his Parliament....but not often. The nation was smart enough to boot out the PLO in 1973.....they went to Lebanon. (see above) Refuses to consider the return of its West Bank territory because it doesn't want to deal with lunatic Palestinian terror groups. At peace with Israel.

Jordan. A US and Israeli supported monarchy/dictatorship. In exchange for peace with Israel, US taxpayers pay Jordan's king/dictator hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes annually. (200-500M US depending on accounting) Jordan's king/dictator uses some of this bribe money to buy weapons which guarantees his absolute control. Since Jordan's dictator has been shrewd and remains popular with most Jordanians, he's under little threat of a coup.

Like Israel, Jordan also practices torture. Unlike Israel, Jordan does not practice ethnic cleansing. All of its citizens are equally protected. Jordan does not block international food and medical aid from reaching any of its citizens. Disease and malnutrition is not as common in Jordan as it is in Gaza. There are no children in Jordanian hospitals being treated for chemical weapon related injuries caused by the Jordanian government.

In general, most Jordanians are far better off than most Gazans.

Colpy:

Egypt. Oh my. A supposed democracy, practises extreme suppression of dissent........refuses to consider the return of Gaza, because it does not want to deal with lunatic Palestinian terror groups. At peace with Israel.

EAO

Egypt: A US and Israel supported dictatorship. In exchange for peace with Israel, US taxpayers pay the Egyptian dictator about $2 Billion US in military and economic bribes annually. As a result Egyptians have pretty much no hope of ever electing a representative government and most blame the United States directly for their unpopular dictator. Egypt has a low crime rate and is a relatively safe tourist destination.

While the Egyptian dictator must remain subservient to US and Israeli interests to get his bribe money, he is free to treat his own citizens as poorly as he chooses. Poverty, disease and malnutrition is widespread in Egypt, despite the President's opulent lifestyle. Egypt's education and health systems have completely collapsed and millions Egyptians seem destined to live in perpetual poverty.

Egypt, like Israel practices torture and imprisonment without due process. Under the Bush administration, Egypt was a popular destination for people the US wanted to torture.

Egypt has a border with Gaza which can move people only. Egypt only opens the Gaza border when permitted by Israel and only allows people approved by Israel to enter or leave Gaza.

Overall most Egyptians are better off than most Gazans, although Egypt's poorest suffer conditions approaching that of average Gazans.

The Zionist state of Israel is a force for evil in the region.

Israel's continuing humanitarian food and medical aid blockade of Gaza has plunged Gaza into extreme poverty. Israeli induced hunger, malnutrition and disease is wide spread in Gaza. Because of the blocakade, Gazans cannot repair infrastructure. Raw untreated sewage flows freely in Gaza's streets. Hundreds thousands of Gazans lack access to potable water.

Americans have a particular responsibility to raise their voices and ensure that information about the crisis in Gaza reaches American citizens. Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid. American tax dollars fund the Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the strangulation of Gaza.

 

[earth_as_one]

No, there is no peace.

Hamas has very clearly said there will be no peace until all of Israel is overthrown and replaced by an Islamic government.

See thats the problem with the peace agreements offered to Israel, Israel gives up things, and gets nothing, because the people its actually fighting don't want peace, they want unconditional surrender. They see themselves as Russia after Berlin has already fallen, "why make peace now?", regardless of how deluded they are, they see victory as inevitable.

Hamas has also clearly said that they would enter into a permanent ceasefire with Israel if they pulled back to the 1967 borders and that they would leave it to the next generation of leaders to decide how to procede. That's been their official viewpoint for about the last decade.

BTW, Israel assassinated the US educated engineer, professor and Hamas leader who formulating that position and negotiated the failed roadmap to peace:
My Last Encounter with Ismail Abu Shanab - TIME

Israel has proven by their actions over the years they are interested in nothing less than a pure Jewish State of Israel which includes Gaza and the West Bank.
The Israeli Recipe For 2008: Genocide in Gaza, Ethnic Cleansing in the West Bank :: The Official Website of Ilan Pappé

 

[Zzarchov]

Hamas has also clearly said that they would enter into a permanent ceasefire with Israel if they pulled back to the 1967 borders and that they would leave it to the next generation of leaders to decide how to procede. That's been their official viewpoint for about the last decade.

That is not peace for fudges sake.

If Hamas wants to offer peace, offer peace. Not "Oh, well, I offer a ceasefire, with the occassional rocket, and then in 20 years once we've got another generation of young men ready, we'll attack again"

That isn't peace. You show me the offer of peace or stop trying to dance around the fact.

Hamas does not want peace. Period.

If they can't bring themselves to even say the word peace, then they don't believe in it.

 

[earth_as_one]

That is not peace for fudges sake.

If Hamas wants to offer peace, offer peace. Not "Oh, well, I offer a ceasefire, with the occassional rocket, and then in 20 years once we've got another generation of young men ready, we'll attack again"

That isn't peace. You show me the offer of peace or stop trying to dance around the fact.

Hamas does not want peace. Period.

If they can't bring themselves to even say the word peace, then they don't believe in it.

Hamas has repeatedly offered Hudnas of various lengths from a year to 100 years. In Islamic jurisprudence, a Hudna is a legitimate and binding contract which is a normal first step to finding a permanent peace or non-violent resolution to armed conflict.
Another Hamas Peace Plan Ignored

As far as I know, Hamas has never broken a Hudna first. They've always been broken by someone else. Sometimes it was Israel, other times it was one of the other militant groups. Hamas, has a record of keeping their word unlike Israel. That's not a statement of support for Hamas but an observation. Even Israel's representatives admit this as you well know.

Reposted:
YouTube - Who Broke The Cease Fire - Hamas or Israel 2008

Regarding your statement:

"Oh, well, I offer a ceasefire, with the occassional rocket..."

Are you going to stick to the facts Z or just make them up? Hamas has never done this as far as I know. I'd like to see you back your statement up with references.

References which disprove your statement:
Reposted:
Hamas arrests militants after rocket fire | Reuters

More recently: Hamas Threatens Rocket Militants
12 March 2009
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7940371.stm

Its a fact that Hamas made legitimate efforts to uphold its June 19, 2008 ceasefire obligations. Hamas can't prevent every rocket launched by the various militant groups and criminals in Gaza, but they did arrest militants who violated the ceasefire. Hamas was not 100% successful, but its pretty clear from this chart below when Hamas began observing its ceasefire with Israel (June 18, 2008 ) and when Israel violated it. (November 8, 2008 )

During the ceasefire Hamas never fired a single rocket or mortar and achieved a 99% reduction. In fact it appeared they were getting close to 100% when Israel broke the ceasefire on November 8 2008.

While Hamas was making progress toward peace, Israel continued blocking humanitarian food and medical aid from entering Gaza in violation of their ceasefire obligations and international law.

As you can see from this chart below, during the same period Hamas was making progress, Israel decreased the amount of aid entering Gaza:

I don't any sign that Israel met its ceasefire obligations. Perhaps you can identify the month that Israel achieved 99% of its ceasefire obligations like Hamas?

What it looks like to me is that as Hamas became more successful, Israel tightened its blockade.

Finally on November 8, 2008, Israel gives up all pretenses of observing a ceasefire with an unprovoked attack on Gaza:

Jimmy Carter
Thursday, January 8, 2009
A15


I know from personal involvement that the devastating invasion of Gaza by Israel could easily have been avoided...

...this fragile truce was partially broken on Nov. 4, when Israel launched an attack in Gaza to destroy a defensive tunnel being dug by Hamas inside the wall that encloses Gaza...

Jimmy Carter - An Unnecessary War

 

[CDNBear]

Israel used to be peaceful place until relatively recently. For hundreds of years Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together with very little conflict compared to most of the rest of the world.

Unfortunately the people living here known as Palestinians had the misfortune of living on land Zionists believed God gave to Jews. As a result these people were ethnically cleansed from the land. I know that's a bold statement. But its also a fact backed up by evidence in Israeli government archives, British archives and personal testimony by all sides of the conflict.

And let's not forget the Nazi's! The Grand Mufti and translated versions of Mein Kampf.

It bears no weight on the subject at all...

This is where you slide off the biscuit each and every time eao. You pick and choose what elements of history you wish to use in your constant attacks on Israel. Try reading the history of the area eao. I posted a great easy to read version around here somewhere. You want me to dig it up for ya?

Tell me again why I shouldn't believe you support terrorists and terrorist regimes, with your selective silence and selective acknowledgment of historical facts.

 

[Trex]

What Americans should know about Israel and probably don't.


They should know that racism and anti-semitism is alive and and well on the Internet.
They should know that web sites will continue to subtlety spawn and accept racial hatreds.
They should know Stormfront is still accepting and promoting like minded individuals.

But hey, its all freedom of speech.
Group hug time.

Trex