Israel threatens 'disproportionate' response to Hamas rocket fire

[Colpy]

Yep.

The Israelis fought in the most densely populated area on earth for 21 days, using the most sophisticated conventional air, sea, and land power known.

They killed 1300 people. Somewhere between 25 and 50 % of those were militants.

they were carefully avoiding civilian casualties as much as possible while achieving their strategic ends.

In comparison, Allied Bomber command, using only air power, killed 80,000 people in the city of Dresden in a single night.........65 years ago.

THAT is targeting civilians.

The Americans killed considerably more than 100,000 in a single night raid on Tokyo.

THAT is targeting civilians.

At the very outside, 1000 dead civilians after 21 days of warfare in the most densely packed population centre on earth shows amazing restraint and care taken by Israelis.

Despite several incidents such as those above. Start tossing tons of explosives around, and Shyte happens.

 

[earth_as_one]

Colpy, Please quote where I wrote Israel deliberately targetted civilians.

What we disagree on is whether Israel was carefully avoiding civilian casualties. My posts above clearly show Israel has a casual disregard for the safety of civilians and committed these war crimes.

1) Israel used heavy artillary and white phosphorus in urban areas.

2) Israel deliberately bombed civilian targets including evacuation shelters and schools.

3) Israel attacked ambulances, medical workers and humanitarian aid convoys.

4) Israeli soldiers prevented the Red Cross from accessing and evacuating wounded civilians.

For the last 18 months Israel blockaded Gaza and prevented 80% of international humanitarian food and medical aid from reaching Gaza civilians who suffer chronic disease and malnutrition. This crime against humanity collectively punished 1.5 million civilians.

..."The people of Gaza have suffered terribly from lack of food, cooking gas, access to health care and destruction of water infrastructure during the three weeks of intense conflict, hundreds of thousands need emergency humanitarian aid now. A durable ceasefire, unimpeded access and unrestricted movement within Gaza is of utmost importance to get basic humanitarian relief to the hundreds of thousands who have been denied basic protection and let them start rebuilding their lives."
Immediate opening of all the crossings into Gaza and ending the 18-month blockade that has reduced the population of Gaza to almost complete poverty and dependency on aid must be the priorities once we have a negotiated, durable and fully respected ceasefire, international aid agency Oxfam said today...


Oxfam America: A unilateral ceasefire is no guarantee of safety for civilians

Chronic malnutrition in Gaza blamed on Israel - Middle East, World - The Independent

 

[Avro]

Isreal has more regard for civilian deaths than Hamas does.

What do you suppose Hamas would do if they had a nuke?

 

[Colpy]

Colpy, Please quote where I wrote Israel deliberately targetted civilians.

What we disagree on is whether Israel was carefully avoiding civilian casualties. My posts above clearly show Israel has a casual disregard for the safety of civilians and committed these war crimes.

1) Israel used heavy artillary and white phosphorus in urban areas.

2) Israel deliberately bombed civilian targets including evacuation shelters and schools.

3) Israel attacked ambulances, medical workers and humanitarian aid convoys.

4) Israeli soldiers prevented the Red Cross from accessing and evacuating wounded civilians.

For the last 18 months Israel blockaded Gaza and prevented 80% of international humanitarian food and medical aid from reaching Gaza civilians who suffer chronic disease and malnutrition. This crime against humanity collectively punished 1.5 million civilians.



Chronic malnutrition in Gaza blamed on Israel - Middle East, World - The Independent

So what?

Do you actually expect the Israelis to let food and medicine flow into the area under attack?

Then they would either have to suspend operations, or inevitably hit humanitarian workers, creating a new cry of "war crimes":roll:

In addition, they would be forced to divert a very significant portion of manpower to searching aid convoys for weapons.

As for suffering in Gaza, when they start piling up bodies of those starved to death, THEN it is a war crime.

Until then,.....well, maybe the population should rid itself of Hamas, eh?

 

[lone wolf]

So what?


As for suffering in Gaza, when they start piling up bodies of those starved to death, THEN it is a war crime.

So... They can be robbed of business, means and home; they can be threatened, demeaned, abused, beaten, battered and pounded into submission; they can be shipped off to ghettos and prisons for having done no more wrong than just being in the way of expansion ... but as long as there isn't mass death by starvation there is no crime committed?

 

[petros]

Journalists and UN who used to provide the images we see are forced to watch from a hill top 6km away and watch the turkey shoot in horror.

 

[Colpy]

So... They can be robbed of business, means and home; they can be threatened, demeaned, abused, beaten, battered and pounded into submission; they can be shipped off to ghettos and prisons for having done no more wrong than just being in the way of expansion ... but as long as there isn't mass death by starvation there is no crime committed?

Yep.

Except THERE IS NO EXPANSION IN GAZA. ISRAEL FORCIBLY REMOVED JEWISH SETTLERS IN GAZA IN 2005.

Sorry to yell, but damn, you guys are deaf.

Otherwise, although I disagree in some ways with your analysis of the situation, you have got the general idea.

Gaza is not Israeli territory. Israel is being attacked from inside Gaza, by a group that appears to have significant support among the population. Therefore the population pays, because they refuse to reject those that attack Israel. Short of wholescale murder, that is all they have any right to expect.

International law is a joke.

 

[lone wolf]

Yep.

Except THERE IS NO EXPANSION IN GAZA. ISRAEL FORCIBLY REMOVED JEWISH SETTLERS IN GAZA IN 2005.

Sorry to yell, but damn, you guys are deaf.

Otherwise, although I disagree in some ways with your analysis of the situation, you have got the general idea.

Gaza is not Israeli territory. Israel is being attacked from inside Gaza, by a group that appears to have significant support among the population. Therefore the population pays, because they refuse to reject those that attack Israel. Short of wholescale murder, that is all they have any right to expect.

International law is a joke.

Now ... how many of those people in Gaza are refugees from Israeli forced evacuations?

SORRY TO YELL, COLPY, BUT CAN YOU READ?

 

[Zzarchov]

Now ... how many of those people in Gaza are refugees from Israeli forced evacuations?

SORRY TO YELL, COLPY, BUT CAN YOU READ?

None if any. Unless Im considered a refugee from Nazi expansions?

 

[lone wolf]

Benjamin Netanyahu said today the government made a serious mistake when it disengaged in Gaza before Hamas was destroyed, and promised, if elected, to rejoin the fight and not withdraw until Hamas is no longer a power in Gaza.

Netanyahu is the front runner in the current election.

Gaza is in for it.

This is better'n Viagra for you isn't it?

 

[lone wolf]

None if any. Unless Im considered a refugee from Nazi expansions?

Screw off, troll

 

[Zzarchov]

Screw off, troll

uh huh, great rebuttal.

I bring up fact and you counter with "Screw off, troll".

If you don't like facts, don't use appeals to logic, stick to appeals to emotion.

 

[earth_as_one]

:smile:

you keep cutting off the rest of their quotes: "Aren't using white phosphourous" illegally/as a weapon.

Even your own photo has the following:

Photo: Iyad El Baba/UNICEF-oPt[URL="http://www.irinnews.org/images//design/magnify.gif"] [/URL]Israel is accused of using white phosphorous illegally but says it is using smoke screens containing phosphorus TEL AVIV, 15 January 2009 (IRIN)


Further more,

On 13 January Brig-Gen Avi Benayahu, chief spokesman for the Israel Defense Force (IDF), said that in its assault on Gaza Israel was using weapons in accordance with international treaties and conventions.

Their denial is using white phosphorous as a chemical weapon (in which case the problem is the fumes not the fire) not about using WP in general.


This is the kind if deliberate misinformation (and shoddy at that) that you keep spouting. They didn't even make sure to fully reword their own article. They still left in references to Israels actual claim.

What I said is that Israel initially denied using WP in Gaza. Later they admitted they were using WP but in accordance with international law:

...When first questioned by The Times last week an Israeli military spokesman “categorically denied” using white phosphorus in Gaza. In a statement issued yesterday the spokesman’s office said:

“We don’t specify operational details, nor the type of ammunition that we use, but any ammunition that is used by the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] is within the scope of international law.”

Human Rights Watch said it was sure Israel had used white phosphorus. “The use of white phosphorus in densely populated areas of Gaza violates the requirement under international humanitarian law to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian injury and loss of life,” it said...

Gaza's burn victims add to pressure on army over phosphorus - Times Online

Israel admits using white phosphorous in attacks on Gaza

(Mohammed Abed/AFP/Getty Images)



The incident being investigated is believed to be the firing of white phosphorous shells at a UN school in Beit Lahiya on January 17






James Hider in Jerusalem and Sheera Frenkel in Gaza City



div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited {color:#06c;}After weeks of denying that it used white phosphorus in the heavily populated Gaza Strip, Israel finally admitted yesterday that the weapon was deployed in its offensive...



Israel admits using white phosphorous in attacks on Gaza - Times Online

But the photo of the school above proves Israel illegally dropped WP on civilians. Once might have been an accident. But there are literally dozens of examples of Israel using WP against civilian targets.

 

[lone wolf]

uh huh, great rebuttal.

I bring up fact and you counter with "Screw off, troll".

If you don't like facts, don't use appeals to logic, stick to appeals to emotion.

No, Zz... What you are doing is harassing and it had better stop.

 

[Colpy]

This is better'n Viagra for you isn't it?

I don't like Netanyahu.

I think he is arrogant, corrupt, and far too well described by the last two sylables of his name. YA-HOO.

I like Barak......you know, the guy that offered Palestinians a nation........

 

[lone wolf]

I don't like Netanyahu.

I think he is arrogant, corrupt, and far too well described by the last two sylables of his name. YA-HOO.

I like Barak......you know, the guy that offered Palestinians a nation........

Funny thing ... in 1948 Palestine was offered a nation too - the land upon which they lived.

 

[Colpy]

Funny thing ... in 1948 Palestine was offered a nation too - the land upon which they lived.

And if the six Arab nations that now profess to so love them had NOT attacked Israel.....they might still have some of it.

 

[earth_as_one]

Isreal has more regard for civilian deaths than Hamas does.

What do you suppose Hamas would do if they had a nuke?

Hamas is about as likely to acquire nukes as they are to develop a space program and put a militant on the moon.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Technically Hamas rockets and mortars directed at civilian targets are war crimes. However, their capability is extremely limited. They can create regular inconveniences, although they have very slim chance of hurting someone.

How does Hamas's crimes compare with Israel's?

Does a rocket which creates a crater in a farmer's field 99.9% of the time really compare to lobbing heavy artillery shells and white phophorus into densely populated urban areas?

Also what is an appropriate response to Israel's humanitarian food and medicine blockade which remains ongoing?

 

[lone wolf]

And if the six Arab nations that now profess to so love them had NOT attacked Israel.....they might still have some of it.

Perhaps if they had been privy to the deal being made for their perceived territory, they may not have been quite so pissed off when their olive trees were uprooted and the sheep were displaced by refugees. There is a lot more to the story than just poor Israel bad Arab.

 

[Colpy]

Hamas is about as likely to acquire nukes as they are to develop a space program and put a militant on the moon.

No Hamas is not likely to acquire nukes by themselves. Iran, however, is very likely to acquire nukes, Iran is the major supporter of arms and money to both Hezbollah and Hamas, both of which organizations claim as their aim the murder of all Jews, Iran wants Israel off the map, Iran would not want to risk retaliation from an obvious missile strike........are you following me here?

it is not paranoia when they really are out to get you.