Wildrose Alliance Party is it a new fad ?

[Kakato]

Reform Party was composed mostly of right wingers, kakato. That is why it did not get anywhere near to forming the government federally. It is only when Harper moved the conservative party towards the center that they became competitive in Ontario and Quebec.

The right wingers from Reform Party, who are in the cabinet today (like disgraced Stockwell Day) are kept strictly under wraps by Harper. While the Conservative party today has many elements of Reform Party, Harper has kept the extremist tendencies of Reform strictly under wraps.

Remember the Alliance plank of holding referendums on just about everything? Why, they would have held a referendum as to whether Canadians should be permitted to eat hotdogs with or without relish (provided somebody collected 200,000 signatures). Also remember the starry eyed Senate reform proposed by the Alliance Party (elected, effective, equal)? Remember opposition to gay marriage? Opposition to abortion? Randy Whites' promise to use the Notwithstanding Clause every time Supreme Court overruled the Conservative government?

All gone, Harper has moved the party to the center. It is no credit to Reform party that conservatives are in power today. If it had not been for Reform Party and Alliance, Conservatives probably would have been in power before this (whoever heard of the same party, i.e. Liberals governing for 13, years, except of course in Alberta)?

I was quite heavily involved with Cory who was the founder of the now reform party so all I can say is you may have visited Alberta but you dont know our politics very well.
You might want to start off in Rural Alberta,hit a coffee shop and listen in to the coffee crowd.Then hit as many as you can and you just might have an inkling of what us Albertans are about.
So far your batting zero in my backyard.

 

[Kakato]

I'll say it again,the reform party started out as a coalition between Alberta seperatists and other right of center people,they formed a coalition called the reform party.
The seperatists stayed behind as they were not welcome,and like I said previously not all going into the reform party were welcomed,they just moved to stay in what they thought would be a safe place.
Stock is an idiot and that is acknowledged by most Albertans.
Your take on Alberta politics nets a huge fail Joey.

 

[DaSleeper]

1867 to 2004
Election
Party Elected Members Number of Candidates Percentage of Popular Vote Percentage of Seats
2004 (June 28) - Official Turnout: 60.9 %
View Detailed Results of 2004 Elections
Liberal 135 308 36.7 % 43.8 %
Conservatives 99 308 29.6 % 32.1 %
Bloc Québécois 54 75 12.4 % 17.5 %
New Democratic Party 19 308 15.7 % 6.2 %
Green Party 0 308 4.3 % 0.0 %
Other 1 378 1.4 % 0.3 %
Total 308 1,865
Government--135, Opposition--173, Minority--38


2000 (November 27) - Official Turnout: 61.2 % Actual Turnout: 64.1% - see note**
View Detailed Results of 2000 Elections
Liberal 172 301 40.8 % 57.1 %
Canadian Alliance 66 298 25.5 % 21.9 %
Bloc Québécois 38 75 10.7 % 12.6 %
New Democratic Party 13 298 8.5 % 4.3 %
Progressive Conservative 12 291 12.2 % 4.0 %
Other 0 545 2.3 % 0.0 %
Total 301 1,808
Government--172, Opposition--129, Majority--43


1997 (June 2) - Turnout: 67.0 % View Detailed Results of 1997 Elections
Liberal 155 301 38.5 % 51.5 %
Reform 60 227 19.4 % 19.9 %
Bloc Québécois 44 75 10.7 % 14.6 %
New Democratic Party 21 301 11.0 % 7.0 %
Progressive Conservative 20 301 18.8 % 6.6 %
Other 1 467 1.6 % 0.3 %
Total 301 1,672
Government--155, Opposition--146, Majority--9


1993 (October 25) - Turnout: 69.6 %
Liberal 177 295 41.3 % 60.0 %
Bloc Québécois 54 75 13.5 % 18.3 %
Reform 52 207 18.7 % 17.6 %
New Democratic Party 9 294 6.9 % 3.1 %
Progressive Conservative 2 295 16.0 % 0.7 %
Other 1 989 3.6 % 0.3 %
Total 295 2,155
Government--177, Opposition--118, Majority--59

Note that in 2000 the concervatives had started to go down again but came back up when they joined the alliance....they would be nowhere to-day without it
Source>>>>>Canadian Election Results: 1867-2004

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I'll say it again,the reform party started out as a coalition between Alberta seperatists and other right of center people,they formed a coalition called the reform party.
The seperatists stayed behind as they were not welcome,and like I said previously not all going into the reform party were welcomed,they just moved to stay in what they thought would be a safe place.
Stock is an idiot and that is acknowledged by most Albertans.
Your take on Alberta politics nets a huge fail Joey.

Isn't Stock an MP from BC?

As to coalition, i agree with you partially. It was a coalition of Alberta separatists and right wingers, not right of centre.

Ontario, Quebec conservatives generally tend to be right of center, those from Alberta, usually belong to the right.

 

[Kakato]

I used to get my hair cut sitting next to Joe Who at charlies barber shop as a kid.:lol:

I shook Trudeaus hand but it was a greasy encounter as he slipped from the grip and gave me the finger.

 

[Kakato]

Isn't Stock an MP from BC?

As to coalition, i agree with you partially. It was a coalition of Alberta separatists and right wingers, not right of centre.

Ontario, Quebec conservatives generally tend to be right of center, those from Alberta, usually belong to the right.

Stock was reform and thats all thats pertinent,the seperatists still push their agenda but the smart ones went reform and are working today.
The seperatistists are the bible thumping right of center you speak of,they didnt go reform except for Stock.

Your so wrong about Alberta though that I dont know where to start.:roll:

 

[Spade]

There are all kinds of myths in Alberta about the NEP. Lougheed became a willing participant. It was a concerted program of Big Oil to ensure it didn't work!

 

[Kakato]

There are all kinds of myths in Alberta about the NEP. Lougheed was a willing participant. It was a concerted program of Big Oil to ensure it didn't work!

We try to not think about that,one of the reasons the libs are hated in Alberta.
The NEP was a lib program to nationilize the energy industry but was basically another cash grab and we saw it coming.
It will take one more generation to forget about the NEP,untill then the lib's dont stand a chance in Alberta.

 

[Spade]

We try to not think about that,one of the reasons the libs are hated in Alberta.
The NEP was a lib program to nationilize the energy industry but was basically another cash grab and we saw it coming.
It will take one more generation to forget about the NEP,untill then the lib's dont stand a chance in Alberta.

Canadianization was a overdue positive move; and I am an Albertan1

 

[countryboy]

Reform Party was composed mostly of right wingers, kakato. That is why it did not get anywhere near to forming the government federally. It is only when Harper moved the conservative party towards the center that they became competitive in Ontario and Quebec.

The right wingers from Reform Party, who are in the cabinet today (like disgraced Stockwell Day) are kept strictly under wraps by Harper. While the Conservative party today has many elements of Reform Party, Harper has kept the extremist tendencies of Reform strictly under wraps.

Remember the Alliance plank of holding referendums on just about everything? Why, they would have held a referendum as to whether Canadians should be permitted to eat hotdogs with or without relish (provided somebody collected 200,000 signatures). Also remember the starry eyed Senate reform proposed by the Alliance Party (elected, effective, equal)? Remember opposition to gay marriage? Opposition to abortion? Randy White's promise to use the Notwithstanding Clause every time Supreme Court overruled the Conservative government?

All gone, Harper has moved the party to the center. It is no credit to Reform party that conservatives are in power today. If it had not been for Reform Party and Alliance, Conservatives probably would have been in power before this. Whoever heard of the same party (i.e. Liberals) governing for 13 years (except of course in Alberta)?

Back when I could stomach a hot dog, I liked relish with mine.

I get the feeling that you don't often vote Conservative, but I think you have to realize that not everyone is attached to any political party. Some just look at the issues of the day, or even the individual candidates running in their riding, and then make a decision.

I'm sure you'd be glad if everyone voted Liberal, but that's not the case. There are some people out there who actually supported the Reform Party, as I believe Mr. Manning ended up as Official Opposition Leader, did he not? (Which means he must have been relatively near to forming the government...how much closer can you get?)

I think Stockwell Day holds a pretty important job, considering he's "disgraced." Or do you not have any respect at all for our cabinet ministers?

Finally, I doubt that your insinuation that Alberta's voting habits are "wrong" doesn't do much for Canadian unity. Although Ontario and Quebec form a huge percentage of the population of the country, there are other parts of it that count too. I don't see any point or value in being disrespectful of any part of our country, as it simply inflames those who feel their votes "don't count" in a federal election. Or, at least, used to.

Now we see Stephen Harper and his band of "extremists" making inroads in Ontario, which I guess is why they're running the government, and have been for some time. Could it be that some Ontarians have "seen the light" and are now voting just as "wrongly" as Albertans? My, my, exactly who is "wrong" in this scenario?

Just a few casual observations which I thought would add a dimension of reality to the discussion. You're welcome.

 

[Kakato]

Canadianization was a overdue positive move; and I am an Albertan1

Sorry but we saw we were going to get raped by the libs and it's nationalization program for energy so dont try make it sound like it's a patriotic thing by calling it "Canadianization" to fund the east with our dollars earned through blood sweat and tears.
Theres a reason there's so many seperatist movements in Alberta,they dont like greedy people trying to take their hard earned cash.
We actually work very hard for those gas dollars,it's not another trough for the libs to fill their faces in but they arent in power anymore and Steve wont rock that economic boat.

 

[Spade]

Sorry but we saw we were going to get raped by the libs and it's nationalization program for energy so dont try make it sound like it's a patriotic thing by calling it "Canadianization" to fund the east with our dollars earned through blood sweat and tears.
Theres a reason there's so many seperatist movements in Alberta,they dont like greedy people trying to take their hard earned cash.
We actually work very hard for those gas dollars,it's not another trough for the libs to fill their faces in but they arent in power anymore and Steve wont rock that economic boat.

Utter nonsense and a good dose of propaganda to boot. The opinion you express is simply one opinion; it does not define a much more cosmopolitan Alberta.

 

[Kakato]

Utter nonsense and a good dose of propaganda to boot. The opinion you express is simply one opinion; it does not define a much more cosmopolitan Alberta.

Ya right,I've worked all over Alberta,been to every town.
No propaganda there.
The NEP was a disaster for us,maybe you have a bad memory or werent an Albertan then.

 

[Spade]

Ya right,I've worked all over Alberta,been to every town.
No propaganda there.
The NEP was a disaster for us,maybe you have a bad memory or werent an Albertan then.

Wrong again on both counts!

 

[damngrumpy]

I think perhaps the Wild Rose Party will form government. The problem is the people
will sober up after a term or two and throw them out. Wild Rose is a symbol of all the democracy beliefs that don't work. The Socreds. United Farmers, and so on. The
political right keeps making new fashions of sheep's clothing but at the end of the
day, they are still extreme right wing conservatives, mostly social conservatives that are there to serve the interests of the oil patch. One day people will wake up.

 

[Spade]

I think perhaps the Wild Rose Party will form government. The problem is the people
will sober up after a term or two and throw them out. Wild Rose is a symbol of all the democracy beliefs that don't work. The Socreds. United Farmers, and so on. The
political right keeps making new fashions of sheep's clothing but at the end of the
day, they are still extreme right wing conservatives, mostly social conservatives that are there to serve the interests of the oil patch. One day people will wake up.

Yep, they're the libertarian no-government party running to govern.

 

[Tonington]

Any predictions for voter turnout? Will it be up after three (at least) consecutive drops? From my time out in Alberta, most Albertans I met, all in small towns, tended not to care very much about politics. Just do your work, go home, drink some beer, tell some stories with friends, and reset the next day.

 

[Tonington]

Lol, 2 years away. Jeez this FAD thread had me thinking an election was sooner.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Back when I could stomach a hot dog, I liked relish with mine.

I get the feeling that you don't often vote Conservative, but I think you have to realize that not everyone is attached to any political party. Some just look at the issues of the day, or even the individual candidates running in their riding, and then make a decision.

In our system, people vote for parties (even those who claim that they don't), they do not vote for individual candidates. Only in exceptional case will people vote for a particular candidate. We are not the USA.

I'm sure you'd be glad if everyone voted Liberal, but that's not the case. There are some people out there who actually supported the Reform Party, as I believe Mr. Manning ended up as Official Opposition Leader, did he not? (Which means he must have been relatively near to forming the government...how much closer can you get?)

Leader of Official Opposition has nothing whatever to do with forming the government. Leader of Official Opposition needs only 10% of the seats in the Parliament, only the biggest party can form government. Thus the party with 51 or 52 seats in the Parliament can be the Official Opposition; you would need at least around 130 seats to form even a minority government.

So the fact that Manning was leader of the official Opposition does not even remotely mean that he was anywhere near to forming government, he wasn’t.

I think Stockwell Day holds a pretty important job, considering he's "disgraced." Or do you not have any respect at all for our cabinet ministers?

And how often does Stockwell Day talk to the press? Very rarely, Harper keeps him on a tight leash. He doesn’t want Day’s extremist rhetoric (he believes that the world was created 5000 years ago in six days) to damage the Conservative Party.

Now we see Stephen Harper and his band of "extremists" making inroads in Ontario, which I guess is why they're running the government, and have been for some time. Could it be that some Ontarians have "seen the light" and are now voting just as "wrongly" as Albertans? My, my, exactly who is "wrong" in this scenario?

Just a few casual observations which I thought would add a dimension of reality to the discussion. You're welcome.

Ontarians have not seen the light, Harper has seen the light. I have already explained in my previous post how Harper ditched all the extremist policies of Reform and Alliance one after another. Referendums on absolutely everything, equal, elected, effective Senate, opposition to abortion, opposition to gay marriage, generous use of Notwithstanding Clause etc.

When Harper saw the light, and repudiated the extreme policies of Reform/Alliance, that is when Ontario gave him a minority government.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I think perhaps the Wild Rose Party will form government. The problem is the people
will sober up after a term or two and throw them out. Wild Rose is a symbol of all the democracy beliefs that don't work. The Socreds. United Farmers, and so on. The
political right keeps making new fashions of sheep's clothing but at the end of the
day, they are still extreme right wing conservatives, mostly social conservatives that are there to serve the interests of the oil patch. One day people will wake up.

Quite so. When PC party self destructed under Mulroney, the right wing of the party (blue Tories) formed the Reform party, the moderate wing of the party (Red Tories) formed Bloc Quebecois.

The right and far right tried valiantly to soldier on at the federal level. They even tried changing the name of the party twice, once to Alliance and then to Conservative party. Nothing worked. It is only when they moved away from the extreme, towards the center that they were able to win a minority government.

While right and far right philosophies may play well in Alberta, they do not play well in Ontario and Québec, who really decide who is going to win.