Why are people poor?

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Unfortunately, forcing someone to stay in school doesn't mean they absorb a damn thing. It makes sense for people who DO absorb an education, to simply say 'get educated', but for someone who has a learning disability, or social pressures like say, a child, keeping them from finishing school, all that forcing them to stay in does is make them hate learning.
You can't design the educational system based on the lowest common denominator. Most kids don't get pregnant
and most kids don't have a learning disability. Single moms have to be helped to finish high school because they are likley to need that education.
" all forcing them to stay in does is make them hate learning.". I don't think that is true. We are talking about one more year
and it would help more kids than it would hinder.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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Education may be the key - but it's a key out of reach to a kid born into a home where studies have to take a back seat to obligations and/or circumstances. Some of those kids just get into the routines and curriculum of a new school and it's time to move again - new school, new ways, old judgements from new people.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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I saw an interview with a street person once. He had been a college professor and fell on hard times (we'll skip the details.) He was left out on the street but was there long enough for him to realize (that for him) it was a great freedom. He then chose to stay out on the street. He was not a drunk or drug addict and quite lucid.

I was brought up in upper middle class suburbia. My dad was head of international sales for Norther Telecom. After 8 yeras of climbing the corporate ladder I decided that this was all a bad dream, quit my job and went to live in the forest (read squat in an abandoned cabin) because I saw the whole (Disneyesque) American Dream as a nightmare leading to humanities demise. I learned to live quite comfortably on about 1/5th of what most people would consider the poverty level. Poverty is sometimes a choice. I made that choice because I wanted to minimize my foot print on the planet and not be involved with mindless consumerism.

I can relate to that 100%- have to admit I would never have the guts to do it. Most of the definitions I see for poverty are a joke. Poverty to me would be a lack of anything that directly leads to poor health. Lack of nourishment, substandard shelter and poor quality clothing (lack of a specific label isn't poverty :lol:) could be considered poverty. How many poor people these days know how to use a needle and thread? I don't live in poverty but I still darn socks. One of the first things a child should learn as soon as they are able to read is "Waste not want not".

Education may be the key - but it's a key out of reach to a kid born into a home where studies have to take a back seat to obligations and/or circumstances. Some of those kids just get into the routines and curriculum of a new school and it's time to move again - new school, new ways, old judgements from new people.

I guess a lot depends on the reason for the move. Is it to an improved situation or is it to avoid an unpleasant situation?
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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You can't design the educational system based on the lowest common denominator. Most kids don't get pregnant
and most kids don't have a learning disability. Single moms have to be helped to finish high school because they are likley to need that education.
" all forcing them to stay in does is make them hate learning.". I don't think that is true. We are talking about one more year
and it would help more kids than it would hinder.

I agree it would help lots.... so long as it's flexible enough to not damage the ones who need a different route.

I guess a lot depends on the reason for the move. Is it to an improved situation or is it to avoid an unpleasant situation?

The foster system jumps out as a prime reason kids end up shuffled from school to school.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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I can relate to that 100%- have to admit I would never have the guts to do it. Most of the definitions I see for poverty are a joke. Poverty to me would be a lack of anything that directly leads to poor health. Lack of nourishment, substandard shelter and poor quality clothing (lack of a specific label isn't poverty :lol:) could be considered poverty. How many poor people these days know how to use a needle and thread? I don't live in poverty but I still darn socks. One of the first things a child should learn as soon as they are able to read is "Waste not want not".



I guess a lot depends on the reason for the move. Is it to an improved situation or is it to avoid an unpleasant situation?
For the ones I knew, it was foster care, non-payment of rent or - in one case - a parent one step ahead of a mob. Booze had a priority
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Lack of provisions.

Wouldn't that be more the result than the reason?

Not to me, but society thinks I'm deprived. An ex thought I was culturally deprived because I never watched TV during the 70s. It is all a matter of perspective.


Deprived????????????????? You were intelligent, man! After I've had my lunch I'm going to start another thread, just to let people know "where the bear sh*t in the buckwheat"
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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People are poor because their time is stolen by ten thousand distractions designed to milk them of everything, common sense, dignity, health the literal brain cells right out of their heads. Many people have no idea what real wealth is I guess. It sure isn't a pile of material they haven't time to play with. Money can't buy real wealth.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
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At the Ocean Island Inn; in downtown Victoria, I made a homeless acquitance who slept right outside who claimed that people gave him free money, drugs and liquor.
I think if I drunk half the amount that man did than yeah I would probably be on the streets as well.


The joke could very well be on us all. As this homeless man doesn't have to work and the social net; which we are enslaved by, will make sure the homeless man doesn't starve to death. In fact, has anyone ever seen a skinny homeless guy (unless it's caused by aids) in Downtown Victoria?


Society is a bit of a drag anyway. The homeless guy has all the time in the world to follow his interests and even socialize with his colleagues. Whereas the remaining 99% of the population is too busy at a 8 - 5 job to even raise their own children.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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At the Ocean Island Inn; in downtown Victoria, I made a homeless acquitance who slept right outside who claimed that people gave him free money, drugs and liquor.
I think if I drunk half the amount that man did than yeah I would probably be on the streets as well.


The joke could very well be on us all. As this homeless man doesn't have to work and the social net; which we are enslaved by, will make sure the homeless man doesn't starve to death. In fact, has anyone ever seen a skinny homeless guy (unless it's caused by aids) in Downtown Victoria?


Society is a bit of a drag anyway. The homeless guy has all the time in the world to follow his interests and even socialize with his colleagues. Whereas the remaining 99% of the population is too busy at a 8 - 5 job to even raise their own children.
Sounds like you are jealous.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Sounds like you are jealous.

No shortage of people who will take advantage. I remember this lady.

CTV News Staff
Date: Tue. Mar. 12 2002 3:48 PM ET
An elderly Toronto panhandler known as the "Shaky Lady" held a press conference Monday at her Bay St. lawyer's office to dispute a media report alleging she rakes in thousands of dollars a week and lives in a comfortable apartment with her family.

The Toronto Sun reported last week that Margita Bangova, who claims to tremble because of a medical condition, collects about $2,500 a week by begging on a downtown street corner.

Bangova spoke through an interpreter at the press conference.

"She's saying that because she really suffers that when she was sitting on the street it was not comfortable and agreeable. Sometimes there was snow, wet, and so on. It was not a pleasure for her...sitting," the interpreter said.

Bangova normally wears ragged clothes and holds a sign reading "Please help me. I am poor. I will pray for you," while begging at the corner of Bloor and Yonge.

Speaking through her lawyer, Leonard Hochberg, Bangova said she panhandles to supplement her disability pension of $900 a month.

"It was reported that she made approximately $1,000 a day and that's really a wild exaggeration. She was making about $40 or $50 a day," said Hochberg.

But, a Sun writer said he recently watched her take in at least $500 in five hours and that Bangova's shaking quickly disappeared as she walked briskly to a waiting car at the end of the day.

Bangova lives with her son and his three children in a one-bedroom apartment with leather furniture, a big screen TV, and computer, according to media reports.

The Sun reported that Bangova hired Hochberg last summer to help her with a refugee claim.

Bangova is originally from Slovakia and was seen in a 1997 Czech documentary encouraging fellow Gypsies to follow her to Toronto, touting Canada as some sort of promised land.

After the film aired, hundreds of Gypsies from the Czech Republic reportedly swamped airlines trying to get tickets to Canada.

The Sun coverage has evoked a bitter backlash in Toronto. But, Hochberg said people were being too hard on his client and that she doesn't deserve it.

Hochberg refused to say who was paying his fees.

Bangova, who abandoned her corner when the story emerged, reportedly hasn't decided whether to return to panhandling.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Perhaps people should try panhandling to see just how lucrative and pleasant it is for making a living. It may be much more lucrative than you soft, easy but boring job that will eventually lead you to heart attack or cancer. If you walk a mile in her shoes you will find yourself a mile away and you would have her shoes.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I think most of us are but if we all decided to play "bum" than society would quickly collapse beneath us

It's collapsing now, you failed to prevent that, don't waste any more time, retire tomorrow.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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It's collapsing now, you failed to prevent that, don't waste any more time, retire tomorrow.


The first causality of the collapse will be the social services.

The other side of the argument


There are so many ways people end up in poverty....being lazy is just one factor.

The shrinking middle class is one problem and no real increase in mean income for the last thirty years or since the decline of organised labor.

Just like that joke that Tonn posted yesterday.



Some truth to it.

OT: Beer Economics--- how taxes really work

OT: Beer Economics--- how taxes really work
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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The first causality of the collapse will be the social services.


I'm going to guess that the first casualty will be the morale of the collapse target group. And that will be done with terrorism and economic contraction. An artist will have an opinion about who goes first as well. Nobody wants to be first for this collapse.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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I'm going to guess that the first casualty will be the morale of the collapse target group. And that will be done with terrorism and economic contraction. An artist will have an opinion about who goes first as well. Nobody wants to be first for this collapse.

There is no 'target' group... Once the economy goes, the tax revenues fall in line with the lower GDP... Fewer taxes mean less cash to fund social programs. It is teh demographic that is low on the socio-economic scale that feel the pinch first and hardest.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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OT: Beer Economics--- how taxes really work

OT: Beer Economics--- how taxes really work

I've seen this simplistic drivel before.

Taxes are the lower in Mexico.....what a great model to follow.

Korea has the lowest taxes yet are 14th in GDP.

Canada has higher taxes than the US and has a lower deficit and more jobs.

Norway has high taxes but is tops in human development.

Sweden has one of the highest tax rates yet have the lowest amount of poverty.

Ireland has low taxes and they are screwed.

The US has low taxes yet is the third highest in income gap between rich and poor.

Your model is flawed....it's cute though...to big for bumper sticker.