Why America Should Apologize

[Goober]

Paradigm shift,

You do realize that I'm the Queen's rep in these lands,don't you?

What a Drag Queen??

 

[Colpy]

You are right about the government of Mao, however, if you wish to go back the the beginning of US history I suppose we could draw parallels between the murder of millions of Chinese and the genocide perpetrated against aboriginal Americas. So far as the government of modern China is concerned it is not even close to the actions of the US government during the Cold War. All great powers tend to surround themselves with nations over which they can exert control and the US is no exception. Remember the idea of the thread is whether or not the US has ever done anything wrong; it has nothing to do with China. What you are essentially saying is that the Chinese were bad and are bad, therefore, what the US did was acceptable. It isn't. A wrong is a wrong whether it is done by someone you like or someone you dislike. Mr. Romney is exhibiting a very selective memory of historical events. I very much doubt that we will see the sort of political, economic, and military manipulation by the Chinese that the US was so famous for during much of the 20th century.

Yeah, I agree Romney sees US history through rose-coloured glasses, so do most Americans, especially politicians.

I disagree the discussion has nothing to do with China, the emerging super-power. China is a fascist state, masquerading as a socialist paradise. And yes, the Chinese are already engaged in "political, economic, and military manipulation". The way I see it the Americans...... who share with us a love of freedom, a common heritage both of English traditions and of western civilization, and a democratic tradition.......need and deserve our support in maintaining their dominant position in the world........simply because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

 

[Cliffy]

The problem with freedom in the west is that it comes at the expense of everybody else in the world. Yup! The Iraqis and Afghans sure are free now that they have Yanky puppet governments in place.

 

[VanIsle]

I never quit figured out the land claims thing either. All I see is a bunch of greedy, mostly white lawyers getting rich playing on the guilt of rich liberals. I feel zero responsibility for what happened before I was born and if all this traditional lands BS was applied to Europe the lawyers would be rich for centuries arguing over who stole what land from who.

Thankyou TS. It's good to know I am not alone in my thoughts.

 

[Colpy]

The problem with freedom in the west is that it comes at the expense of everybody else in the world. Yup! The Iraqis and Afghans sure are free now that they have Yanky puppet governments in place.

Strangely enough, both are now more "free" than they were before the US put in puppet governments.

Whether that is worth more to them than the security they formerly enjoyed is a matter for debate.

 

[critter171]

No we shouldn't at all countries make mistakes and don't act like your country never did one damn thing wrong. we don't own you one, for this crap post and comment you should apologize to us

 

[Risus]

The use of nuclear devices against Japan is one area where there are a number of arguments excusing the Americans. The Japanese have been very good at making the world feel sorry for them due to the dropping of the two atomic bombs, while glossing over even greater atrocities committed by Japan during the war.

In any case, there were a sound military and humanitarian reasons for the use of atomic bombs against the Japanese. First of all, there was the fact that an invasion of Japan would probably have cost as many American dead and wounded as the US had already suffered in the entire war. No Commander in Chief could reasonably be expected to order his military to accept such casualties if there was any other way of ending the war. The A bomb promised a way out without the loss of a single American life.
Second, an invasion of Japan would not haver killed just Americans. Almost certainly Japanese casualties would have been in the millions, especially given the fact that the Japanese high command planned to use poorly trained civilians in mass suicide attacks against the Americans.
Third, an option being considered by the US was not an invasion but the use of mass fleets of conventional bombers to flatten every city in Japan. The plan was developed by Air Force general Curtis Lemay who planned to used the US fleet of 8,000 strategic bombers to take out every city in Japan through the use of fire bombings. Such a plan if put into action would have killed many times more than were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
And finally, Japanese Emperor Hirohito was looking for a way to end the war without losing face. In order to do that he needed an event so disastrous that surrender would be regarded as an act intended to save the Japanese people. The two A bombs provided him with that event. He could then play the part of the benevolent emperor sacrificing his pride in order to preserve his people.

The arrogant yankees used weapons of mass destruction, and yet the hypocrites attacked Iraq illegally on the excuse that they (iraq) had wmds. Yes the yanks need to apologize, unfortunately they are too stupid to realize it.

 

[Colpy]

The arrogant yankees used weapons of mass destruction, and yet the hypocrites attacked Iraq illegally on the excuse that they (iraq) had wmds. Yes the yanks need to apologize, unfortunately they are too stupid to realize it.

Absolute Baloney.

When the USA was at war with Japan, they were our allies at war with a nation that unilaterally attacked them.......a fascist state that aimed at total control of the west Pacific, and eventually control of the world in conjunction with the Third Reich.

The Japanese with only bullet and bayonet killed more innocent civilians in Nanking in a couple of months than were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.....and those were civilians in a pacified city that had surrendered........

The nuclear attacks saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lives. Without those attacks, without the use of the bomb, an invasion of Japan would have been necessary, with an estimated one million allied casualties, and many times that Japanese casualties, military and civilian.

Iraq DID have WMDs, they used them on Iran and on the Kurdish population. Conventional wisdom at the time, fortified by the actions of Saddam himself, was that Iraq continued to develop and stockpile WMDs for future use. In any case, Iraq was in continuing violation of the ceasefire agreement after the First Gulf War......the second simply being the continuation to a rational end of that conflict.

The Yanks have no need to apologize to the Japanese.........and any apology to the people of Iraq need concern only method, not motive.

 

[Risus]

Absolute Baloney.

When the USA was at war with Japan, they were our allies at war with a nation that unilaterally attacked them.......a fascist state that aimed at total control of the west Pacific, and eventually control of the world in conjunction with the Third Reich.

The Japanese with only bullet and bayonet killed more innocent civilians in Nanking in a couple of months than were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.....and those were civilians in a pacified city that had surrendered........

The nuclear attacks saved hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lives. Without those attacks, without the use of the bomb, an invasion of Japan would have been necessary, with an estimated one million allied casualties, and many times that Japanese casualties, military and civilian.

Iraq DID have WMDs, they used them on Iran and on the Kurdish population. Conventional wisdom at the time, fortified by the actions of Saddam himself, was that Iraq continued to develop and stockpile WMDs for future use. In any case, Iraq was in continuing violation of the ceasefire agreement after the First Gulf War......the second simply being the continuation to a rational end of that conflict.

The Yanks have no need to apologize to the Japanese.........and any apology to the people of Iraq need concern only method, not motive.

Absolute baloney. You have no clue if the nuclear attacks saved one casualty, while they killed hundreds of thousands. Was it justified? No.
As far as Iraq was concerned, it was a personal thing by bush. Not justified at all.
Get your head out of the sand.

 

[Colpy]

Absolute baloney. You have no clue if the nuclear attacks saved one casualty, while they killed hundreds of thousands. Was it justified? No.
As far as Iraq was concerned, it was a personal thing by bush. Not justified at all.
Get your head out of the sand.

I have MY head in the sand????? No, you need to read some history.

You say the dropping of nukes saved no lives, but killed many........ You think that before they used nukes they were fighting with nerf bats?????? You think suddenly the Japs would have discovered the principles of peace, love and tolerance, and come out of their fighting holes with extended arms, seeking a group hug with Allied forces????? The war was ENDED by nukes......and it would have continued without their use, with subsequent massive loss of life. Covering your eyes to the obvious so you can point fingers that the hated Americans has NO effect on the reality of that situation.

As for Iraq, yes Bush was looking for an excuse, one neatly handed to him by the history and stupidity of Saddam Hussein. But the does NOT change the fact that the existence of Iraqi WMDs was believed by many of those "in the know". Other nations that joined did not do so to make Bush happy, they did so because they saw Iraq as a threat.

Personally, I wish the aftermath had been handled better, but I firmly support the philosophy of "death to Tyrants", so did support the invasion of Iraq...I just hope and pray they can make something decent out of the mess there.....

 

[Risus]

As for Iraq, yes Bush was looking for an excuse, one neatly handed to him by the history and stupidity of Saddam Hussein. But the does NOT change the fact that the existence of Iraqi WMDs was believed by many of those "in the know". Other nations that joined did not do so to make Bush happy, they did so because they saw Iraq as a threat.

Even Colin Powell didn't believe the WMD story but bushinski hoodwinked him into making that phony presentation to the UN. Yes, the yankees need to apologize for bushinski's illegal war and the innocent lives lost.

 

[talloola]

No we shouldn't at all countries make mistakes and don't act like your country never did one damn thing wrong. we don't own you one, for this crap post and comment you should apologize to us

Many leaders of many countries have and are and will make
mistakes, and do bad deeds to others, and NONE of them will
ever have the balls to 'admit' it, including the u.s.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Absolute baloney. You have no clue if the nuclear attacks saved one casualty, while they killed hundreds of thousands. Was it justified? No.
As far as Iraq was concerned, it was a personal thing by bush. Not justified at all.
Get your head out of the sand.

Risus, did you not bother to read my reply to your earlier post? Almost certainly if the A bomb had not been used to force Japan into surrender millions would have died. World War II was a total war. Both sides used savage tactics and strategies, but it is worth noting that the Japanese used all of them first. Sow the wind and ye reap the whirlwind.

The people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not deserve to die a horrible death, but neither did the 20 million or so Chinese who died at the hands of the Japanese or the hundreds of thousands more who died in Korea, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific islands and every other place invaded by Japan.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

The arrogant yankees used weapons of mass destruction, and yet the hypocrites attacked Iraq illegally on the excuse that they (iraq) had wmds. Yes the yanks need to apologize, unfortunately they are too stupid to realize it.

Garbage.I think the invasion of Iraq was bogus - but does that mean I think that Iraq/Saddam Husain was a great guy/country? No.
If the Americans have to apologize for invading Iraq - then Iraq has to apologize for their genocidal attacks on the Kurds - or their treatment of the ordinal population - . Do ya think that's gonna happen? Bet it won't. Just like I bet that all the 'Americans are evil lobby' won't admit that the people that they advocate for have wrecked havoc amongst their own kind.And can you please explain that to me? Why are the Americans coming in as worse than a government that had no problems killing parts of its population based on its ethnicity (the Kurds)? I have big issues with the Iraq invasion - but where is your moral indignation regarding the behaviour of the Iraqi government - hell, where is your moral indignation regarding Saddam Husain?

 

[talloola]

Risus, did you not bother to read my reply to your earlier post? Almost certainly if the A bomb had not been used to force Japan into surrender millions would have died. World War II was a total war. Both sides used savage tactics and strategies, but it is worth noting that the Japanese used all of them first. Sow the wind and ye reap the whirlwind.

The people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not deserve to die a horrible death, but neither did the 20 million or so Chinese who died at the hands of the Japanese or the hundreds of thousands more who died in Korea, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific islands and every other place invaded by Japan.

That's right, those stubborn arrogant japanese leaders would
not surrender when asked to, on more than one occasion,
they did not care about their own people, just would not
surrender, when it was obvious 'that' was the only smart
and right thing to do, and if the war had of continued
millions more would have died on the mainland of Japan.
The japanese leaders were responsible for 'how' the war
ended, they were warned and given a chance to end it, and
they would 'NOT'.

 

[countryboy]

Absolute baloney. You have no clue if the nuclear attacks saved one casualty, while they killed hundreds of thousands. Was it justified? No.
As far as Iraq was concerned, it was a personal thing by bush. Not justified at all.
Get your head out of the sand.

You must have insight that goes well beyond the great number of Japanese people who think it was justified, or at least there was no other choice to end the madness. That includes elderly ones still alive - and some of them WWII vets - who think Tojo and his band were nuts.

 

[Risus]

Garbage.I think the invasion of Iraq was bogus - but does that mean I think that Iraq/Saddam Husain was a great guy/country? No.
If the Americans have to apologize for invading Iraq - then Iraq has to apologize for their genocidal attacks on the Kurds - or their treatment of the ordinal population - . Do ya think that's gonna happen? Bet it won't. Just like I bet that all the 'Americans are evil lobby' won't admit that the people that they advocate for have wrecked havoc amongst their own kind.And can you please explain that to me? Why are the Americans coming in as worse than a government that had no problems killing parts of its population based on its ethnicity (the Kurds)? I have big issues with the Iraq invasion - but where is your moral indignation regarding the behaviour of the Iraqi government - hell, where is your moral indignation regarding Saddam Husain?

I never said Saddam Hussein was a nice guy, he wasn't. But you cannot go around invading countries and killing leaders you don't like. With bush it was a personal thing. Not justified at all. Look at the mess they have created in the country. They must apologize.

 

[Curiosity]

Ah you guys bless your heads..... I can hear the chant: USA USA USA(boo)....hahaha

JBeee has been starting topics like this followed and supported by his choir ... for almost ten years and y'all bit and got hot...

Unless there's a lost politician among you, nobody has a personal responsibility for
what governments have done over the years. Pick your place to live and love it!

It's a higher road the two countries need to pursue - and its people along with that concept - do you know how many nations of the world are enraged they can't get a big fight going on the 49th?

I love it! Talk about stuck!

Why? It demonstrates two different governmental styles, two different objectives for lifestyle, exchange of positives and resources, roads which join and are cared for by both, a reasonably sound Immigration exchange and for some a lovely weekend spent in a different nation.....

Why would anyone want to see it change? Out of personal hate for the other? I suggest a couple of things for nitpicky kinds of topics like this....

Get help or at least get rational.

 

[JBeee]

...sez the California cat-fish.

ps...are you goin bald?8O

Ah you guys bless your heads..... I can hear the chant: USA USA USA(boo)....hahaha

JBeee has been starting topics like this followed and supported by his choir ... for almost ten years and y'all bit and got hot...

Unless there's a lost politician among you, nobody has a personal responsibility for
what governments have done over the years. Pick your place to live and love it!

It's a higher road the two countries need to pursue - and its people along with that concept - do you know how many nations of the world are enraged they can't get a big fight going on the 49th?

I love it! Talk about stuck!

Why? It demonstrates two different governmental styles, two different objectives for lifestyle, exchange of positives and resources, roads which join and are cared for by both, a reasonably sound Immigration exchange and for some a lovely weekend spent in a different nation.....

Why would anyone want to see it change? Out of personal hate for the other? I suggest a couple of things for nitpicky kinds of topics like this....

Get help or at least get rational.

 

[gopher]

USA made mistakes?

Heck, I've even heard some far right reactionaries say that the USA's biggest mistake was in not invading and annexing Canada!