Half way through and no mention of Bomber group no 6 (RCAF) having participated in the Dresden bombing.
Why America Dropped the Bomb
- Thread starter Locutus
- Start date
Half way through and no mention of Bomber group no 6 (RCAF) having participated in the Dresden bombing.
That's not what it says.... lol
Flipping out eh?
14 Canadian Bomber Squadrons assigned to the RAF Bomber Command... Oooooo thats a lot of Bombers saying "Good day eh?"
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Why is there any argument about Canada's participation in the Dresden raid? That is a matter of historical fact. It is an ugly fact, but it happened nevertheless. Part of the problem with Canadian history in World War II is that historians have constantly mixed in Canadian forces with British forces. For example in the Battle of Britain it is the heroism of the British pilots that is emphasized while overlooking the fact that there were about 100 Canadian pilots involved as well as pilots from other Commonwealth nations. The same it true of the British Eighth Army which actually had a large contingent of Canadian troops.
Clever. But I was told that America ran out of storage space for the bombs.
On the subject of the Dresden bombing, everyone including the Canadians was in for the kill. Those Canadians were a rough and tumble bunch of folks. Taking a torch to the enemy was part of a killing business called total war.
Iraq did not possess any WMDs since at least 1995. IN 1998 Iraq's leadership passed a law which required all Iraqis to cooperate with UN weapon inspectors. The UN weapon inspectors abused their access to Iraq to spy on Iraq's conventional defense systems and harass the Iraqi government. At the end of 1998, the US told the UN Weapon Inspectors to leave before they started bombing Iraq (based on illegally acquired UN weapon Inspector intel). As a result of proving the UN weapon inspectors abused their access to Iraq to spy, Iraq refused to let them return... that's not the same as kicking them out. The head inspector Butler also claimed in 1998 that Iraq was probably not a WMD threat and that they could nearly prove it. But the US kept moving the goal posts and Iraq figured out that the US demands that Iraq prove negatives were logically impossible to achieve. IN 2002, Iraq submitted a paper describing their WMD programs and what happened to them. The US denounced the paper as lies and fabrications, yet that document has been proven as completely accurate and more or less complete. In 2002 Iraq allowed UN weapon inspectors into Iraq and they only found what the Iraqis claimed. They never hid anything. They allowed the UN weapon inspectors to go anywhere and talk to anyone and all they discovered was that the Iraqi paper was essentially accurate and complete. After the invasion and throughout the US occupation, the US military searched Iraq for evidence of WMDs in Iraq. All they found was evidence that proved Iraq's 2002 paper was essentially accurate and complete and that US claims about Iraq's WMD programs were based on lies and fabrications.
Duelfer Report
On 30 September 2004, the ISG released the Duelfer Report, its final report on Iraq's purported WMD programs. Among its conclusions were:
Saddam Hussein controlled all of the regime’s strategic decision making.
Hussein's primary goal from 1991 to 2003 was to have UN sanctions lifted, while maintaining the security of the regime.
The introduction of the Oil-for-food program (OFF) in late 1996 was a key turning point for the regime.
By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions and undermine their international support.
Iran was Iraq's pre-eminent motivator.
The Iraq Survey Group (ISG) judged that events in the 1980s and early 1990s shaped Saddam’s belief in the value of WMD.
Saddam ended his nuclear program in 1991. ISG found no evidence of concerted efforts to restart the program, and Iraq’s ability to reconstitute a nuclear weapons program progressively decayed after 1991.
Iraq destroyed its chemical weapons stockpile in 1991, and only a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions were discovered by the ISG.
Saddam's regime abandoned its biological weapons program and its ambition to obtain advanced biological weapons in 1995. While it could have re-established an elementary BW program within weeks, ISG discovered no indications it was pursuing such a course.
Saddam wanted to recreate Iraq’s WMD capability, which was essentially destroyed in 1991, after sanctions were removed and Iraq’s economy stabilized. Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability—in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks—but he intended to focus on ballistic missile and tactical chemical warfare (CW) capabilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Survey_Group#Duelfer_Report
Despite Iraq's complete and accurate paper, 100% cooperation with UN weapon inspectors, proactive destruction of conventional weapon systems that marginally exceeded restrictions if the restrictions were interpreted in a ridiculous way... American pro-war propganda twisted the above into making Iraq sound like a threat. Not finding WMDs in Iraq was twisted to mean Iraq was hiding WMDs and dishonest in their declarations.
I'd like to know what you believe Iraq could have done that they didn't do which would have avoided a US invasion occupation.
1) Honest and complete declaration of the WMD programs- done
2) Complete and unconditional cooperation with UN weapon inspectors - done
3) Proactive destruction of weapon systems the UN weapon inspectors judged to be violations of UN restrictions - done
What else should the Iraqis have done?
The US threatened Iraq, that if they did not reveal the existence of their WMD stockpiles, they would be invaded and occupied. Since Iraq had no longer possessed WMDs, how could they declare the existence of something that didn't exist?
I can't believe that after all this time and the lies about Iraq have been revealed, that so many people remain ignorant that they were deliberately manipulated, misled and lied into supporting an unprovoked war of aggression to seize control of Iraq's oil wealth.
George Bush and his murderous regime should be charged with war crimes. Their actions are directly and indirectly responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people (possibly more than a million). Your post proves you supported their war crimes because you believed their lies and fabrications about Iraq. Swallowed that BS hook, line and sinker.
BTW, How does it feel to finally realize that you supported war criminals who are responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people because you believed their lies and fabrications?
I never supported the invasion. I read this report before the war and knew US justifications for war were complete BS:
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm
You should read that report, because it was the trigger for war two weeks later. The Bush regime war criminals knew that the UN weapon inspectors were going to prove their claims about Iraq were fraudulent.
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We don't know that, we only know there were none in all the places they looked, but we don't know if there were any in the places they didn't look! :lol:
That wouldn't hold up in a court of law.
I know you are hiding a gun in your house. Therefore I demand that you hand over the gun or face criminal prosecution for illegally possessing a hand gun. Only you don't have a gun in your house and you honestly declare, "I don't have a gun". I claim, that your claim is a lie. You let me search your home. I find nothing. I now claim that proves you are better at hiding the gun than I am at finding a gun. As a result, you are arrested for possessing a handgun and lying about where you hid it.
A criminal justice system which assumes guilt and requires people prove their innocence would result in our jails being filled with innocent people.
The burden was on the US and the UN to prove Iraq had WMDs. It was ridiculous to require Iraq prove the non-existence of anything and anyone who didn't see through this obvious logically impossibility is not qualified to sit on a jury, let alone be a head of state.
JLM's post prove he still hasn't figured out he was manipulated into supporting a horrendous war crime. He obviously feels no guilt or remorse for supporting the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
IMO, anyone who continues to think highly of George Bush Jr. and members of his murderous regime are worse than people who continue to think highly other these other mass murderers:
Top 10 Deadliest Rampage Killers
Back on subject... The Japanese people also supported Imperial Japanese conquests. Just like us, they were lied to and manipulated. Most had no idea about the Rape of Nanking. They never found out about the war crimes and crimes against humanity until after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As far as they knew, their country was liberating and freeing oppressed people from cruel oppressive dictators. Imperial Japan fought just wars to improve the lives of the conquered people... Same BS, different audience...
At least most Japanese finally figured out they were lied and manipulated into supporting war crimes and atrocities. What's your excuse for still not figuring it out?
I know you are hiding a gun in your house. Therefore I demand that you hand over the gun or face criminal prosecution for illegally possessing a hand gun. Only you don't have a gun in your house and you honestly declare, "I don't have a gun". I claim, that your claim is a lie. You let me search your home. I find nothing. I now claim that proves you are better at hiding the gun than I am at finding a gun. As a result, you are arrested for possessing a handgun and lying about where you hid it.
A criminal justice system which assumes guilt and requires people prove their innocence would result in our jails being filled with innocent people.
The burden was on the US and the UN to prove Iraq had WMDs. It was ridiculous to require Iraq prove the non-existence of anything and anyone who didn't see through this obvious logically impossibility is not qualified to sit on a jury, let alone be a head of state.
JLM's post prove he still hasn't figured out he was manipulated into supporting a horrendous war crime. He obviously feels no guilt or remorse for supporting the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children.
IMO, anyone who continues to think highly of George Bush Jr. and members of his murderous regime are worse than people who continue to think highly other these other mass murderers:
Top 10 Deadliest Rampage Killers
Back on subject... The Japanese people also supported Imperial Japanese conquests. Just like us, they were lied to and manipulated. Most had no idea about the Rape of Nanking. They never found out about the war crimes and crimes against humanity until after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As far as they knew, their country was liberating and freeing oppressed people from cruel oppressive dictators. Imperial Japan fought just wars to improve the lives of the conquered people... Same BS, different audience...
At least most Japanese finally figured out they were lied and manipulated into supporting war crimes and atrocities. What's your excuse for still not figuring it out?
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Your post is so full of errors (not unlike a lot of your posts) that I wouldn't even know where to begin. First the attachment has NOTHING to do with the subject at hand. Secondly which court of law are you talking about? Third courts of law are applicable to the discussion, fourth Saddam may be have had W.M.D.s hidden, if not in Iraq, possibly in Iran or Syria. Fifth is your absurd assumption about my supporting the killing of innocent women and children. Show me link showing how many Bush killed and how many the insurgents killed. I have to support freedom of speech but for your own credibility you should severely curtail it to things like ordering groceries and talking to your pets.
You still haven't figured out you were lied and manipulated into supporting a unprovoked war of aggression to seize control of Iraq's oil wealth which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. (possibly more than a million)
You still haven't figured out that absence of proof, proves nothing.
You still believe all the lies and manipulations which not only didn't make sense at the time, but have since been proven to be lies and manipulations.
That's really sad.
You still haven't figured out that absence of proof, proves nothing.
You still believe all the lies and manipulations which not only didn't make sense at the time, but have since been proven to be lies and manipulations.
That's really sad.
Why are we talking about Iraq??
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved hundreds of thousands of lives of Allied soldiers, and the lives of millions of Japanese. Like it or not, those are the facts, the Japanese were NOT about to surrender......read about Saipan.......25,000 civilians lived there. More than 20,000 were killed in the fighting, and 1,000 jumped of a 800 ft cliff rather than surrender to US forces.
Yep....the Japanese were about to surrender...uh huh.
In Iraq, Saddam himself admitted he was trying to convince the world he has WMD, as he feared renewed war with Iran. As well, he was in complete, continuous and blatant violation of the cease fire he signed at the end of the First Gulf War. The USA was fully justified in finishing him off.....but then they should have left.
The Americans were horrified at Japanese behaviour in China, and werre concerned about growing Japanese naval power, and the threat it posed to US allies and possessions in the Pacific.
You do not understand the slightest thing about power, or how the world works. There has always been conflict between different views and cultures, and those are often settled on the battlefield. There are always wolves at the door, and you need to be ready able and willing to kill them dead. The Japs were the wolves in the Pacific in the late 30s.
I do not support Imperial Japanese atrocities. I consistently denounce crimes against humanity, war crimes and the war criminals responsible.
Given the context of WWII, what was going on, I would have been surprised if the Americans didn't use nuclear weapons against Japan. Sure it was a war crime, but WWII is full of similar or worse war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Also I believe that the bomb hastened the end of WW II and as a result saved lives. The results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki shocked everyone and are probably the main reason why the US and the Soviet Union never fought an overt war. So the argument that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved lives could include all the people that didn't die in a war that never happened between the US and the USSR.
Given the context of WWII, what was going on, I would have been surprised if the Americans didn't use nuclear weapons against Japan. Sure it was a war crime, but WWII is full of similar or worse war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Also I believe that the bomb hastened the end of WW II and as a result saved lives. The results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki shocked everyone and are probably the main reason why the US and the Soviet Union never fought an overt war. So the argument that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved lives could include all the people that didn't die in a war that never happened between the US and the USSR.
Because the tards are getting their butts handed to them again about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It happens every year in here Colpy you should know that.
feel free to continue that discussion here which proves Colpy and JLM remain manipulated by lies, misinformation regarding the existence of Iraq's WMDs.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/108370-iraqs-12-000-page-pre.html
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/108370-iraqs-12-000-page-pre.html
And I guess your knowledge is so accurate and complete.............we are talking about WAR here. No one ever pretended that war is just, or compassionate or forgiving or nice. I haven't been manipulated by anything. Maybe you should check in to Saddam's invasion on Kuwait or gassing the Kurds, before expounding on what a nice truthful guy he was. Perhaps you might want to check out the atrocities committed by his sons. Actually in defense of Bush, his targets were mainly infrastructure not innocent civilians.............those were mainly the victims of the insurgents. You need to grow up!
RCAF Command personnel aided in the logistics. RCAF personnel attached to RAF Squadrons participated.
Hamas has a Charter policy of genocide.
You ignore that, but Iraq's laws are written in stone and upheld by the Iraqi government without question?
LOL, yer funny.
Neither would 99% of what you post to demonize/indict/convict Israel with.
So what's your point?
I have done ALOT of research on the bombing of Dresden and was finally able to find one RAF site that stated that the no 6 bomber command did participate. This was all I had asked for to begin with as everything I had read uptown that point was that it was just the RAF and the USAAF that had participated in the bombings over multiple days with the RAF run inflicting the majority of the damage.
Oh do you recall the free election that Saddam had prior to war- He received 100% of the votes if I recall correctly. Or was it 99% with the 1 % imprisoned and tortured.
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