Why America Dropped the Bomb

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Edson, AB
Spelling error? You've been calling it Suvik Bay the whole time. That's just you not knowing what you're talking about.
Many apologies oh great one :p Please do spell the name of every Canadian base and prove your greatness....

Again... you've no clue about what it takes to operate a fleet so far from its Main Base. You've no clue on the condition of the US Navy at the time of Pearl Harbor and how it stacked up the the IJN. Your ridiculous posts attest to it. Facilities, fuel, supplies, etc. Ever hear of logistics? The US Pacific Fleet could not sustain itself operating out of the Philippines.
Well if you paid attention in the past you would know I was in communications and intelligence during my service so have no need to know about the logistics of running a ship. That is also why I have a better idea of what goes on at the high levels of command than some Jarhead!

An open run to an undefended target. I am guessing you are calling the Philippines undefended?
I'm sure there were some defenses but if I had wind of an expected attack at a certain location I might beef those defenses up a great deal....unless I wanted to allow the attack to succeed.

Why am I even bothering explaining. You're too dense to understand.
Personal attacks....? Last refuge of the unintelligent.

Atomic Bombs are chemical weapons? You're softer each post!
Where else would you classify them at the time? The effects of radiation are basically a chemical reaction as is the detonation of the bomb itself. There was no category for nuclear weapons at the time because they didn't exist prior to 1944. Is this logic to hard for you to comprehend?

Wouldn't a plan to occupy a radioactive land indicate the powers of the day had no idea of how dangerous their Bomb really was?

They had an idea, hence all the radiation suits and equipment being produced. They probably did underestimate the actual severity and duration though.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Many apologies oh great one :p Please do spell the name of every Canadian base and prove your greatness....

Perhaps a little research should have been done before you claimed to be an expert.


Well if you paid attention in the past you would know I was in communications and intelligence during my service so have no need to know about the logistics of running a ship. That is also why I have a better idea of what goes on at the high levels of command than some Jarhead!

Oh and I believe that. Any other fantastic tales to tell us?


I'm sure there were some defenses but if I had wind of an expected attack at a certain location I might beef those defenses up a great deal....unless I wanted to allow the attack to succeed.

You're hilarious!

You've no idea of what you're talking about do you? Seriously, you don't do you?

Defenses WERE beefed up but they weren't enough. The Japanese were much stronger and at that time were unstoppable.

"I can run wild for six months... after that I have no expectation of success."- Adm. Yamamoto

Nick... you simply are ignorant to this topic.

Where else would you classify them at the time? The effects of radiation are basically a chemical reaction as is the detonation of the bomb itself. There was no category for nuclear weapons at the time because they didn't exist prior to 1944. Is this logic to hard for you to comprehend?

So you've taken it upon yourself to classify them for the world? Wow, what a sense of self importance.

How about a class of their own as they are today?
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Edson, AB
Perhaps a little research should have been done before you claimed to be an expert.
I'm sorry but just where did I say I was an expert. Please do quote or post a link.

Oh and I believe that. Any other fantastic tales to tell us?
You're a Jarhead...you only believe what your commander tells you and have no need to know more. You probably aren't even aware of half the intelligence community, which is how it is supposed to be.

Defenses WERE beefed up but they weren't enough. The Japanese were much stronger and at that time were unstoppable.
Almost the entire pacific fleet was called to Pearl in the weeks leading up to Dec 7. How is that putting more defenses in the Phillipines.

Nick... you simply are ignorant to this topic.
ES... you simply are ignorant to this topic. See, I can do that too. :thefinger::p

How about a class of their own as they are today?
Easy to give them a class of their own after the fact. At the time they were used that hadn't been done. Are you not bright enough to understand that....Oh, wait, you're a jarhead, no need to answer. :violent1:
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Wouldn't a plan to occupy a radioactive land indicate the powers of the day had no idea of how dangerous their Bomb really was?

That's true...

However we now know that radioactive isotopes released by nuclear weapons tend to have short half lives. They are very radioactive, but 90% will have self destructed within 10 days, 99% within a month and 99.9% of the radiation will be released within 100days. Only faint traces of radiation will remain after 100 days. Within a month Hiroshima and Nagasaki were no longer dangerous, although people continued to die of radiation poisoning for months... due to the initial exposure.

Nuclear reactor accidents by comparison release different isotopes with longer half lives. While these isotopes are less radioactive, they are still deadly in sufficient quantity. The radioactive isotopes entombed in the Chernobyl reactors will remain dangerous for thousands of years. The nuclear reactor isotopes share similar chemical properties with calcium and iodine. As a result these long lived isotopes are also more easily absorbed by the human body than the short lived radioactive isotopes released by nuclear weapons. Taking calcium and iodine supplements will reduce the absorption of these dangerous isotopes.
 
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JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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I'm not saying any country is innocent, Nick, all I'm saying is I'm not getting too weepy over one of the most atrocious countries in the war, notwithstanding Germany and Italy.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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I'm not saying any country is innocent, Nick, all I'm saying is I'm not getting too weepy over one of the most atrocious countries in the war, notwithstanding Germany and Italy.
Don't fool yourself JLM. The US and other allied countries did just as many things that were just as atrocious. Only difference is the west hid it better and got to write the history as the winners.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Actually the US leadership was under much pressure from its allies to enter the war and purportedly wanted to and believed entry was inevitable at some point. It was the simple fact that the general population was against entrance that stopped it happening earlier. The attack on Pearl was the catalyst that changed public opinion and allowed the govt to honor its agreements with the allied forces. Any logical disection of these facts leads to the theory that the Japanese attack was allowed to happen to achieve this change in opinion. I can believe that there was possibly some mistake about the target but given the fact that the US had broken the Japanese codes and were listening to what they were doing I find it hard to believe they knew nothing.


Dropping the bomb was a war crime by definition both under 'mass killings' and 'chemical weapons'. Almost all countries have committed war crimes to some extent and the US is near the top of the list. Some of the actions in Vietnam should have led to tribunals to rival Nuremburg. A lot of the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq are war crimes by definition including the actual invasions themselves. Even Canada does not have clean hands here as we are now condoning torture by our allies to get what is most likely useless intel. I don't think it is at all a good idea to point the finger at another country for its actions in war....it is a war after all and the object is to win.

In the first paragraph, you were doing fine until this line: "Any logical disection of these facts leads to the theory that the Japanese attack was allowed to happen to achieve this change in opinion."

The simple facts you refuse to deal with are these

IF the USA knew there was to be an attack on US forces, why were they not alerted?? An attack is an attack, on prepared forces or ones left unawares........yet the US Navy did not even put their major assets (battleships) out to sea, where they might have been able to defend themselves.

The idea that the USA not only did not take a proactive stance against a known invasion force, but that they also left themselves completely vulnerable, is beyond ludicrous, it is fantastic.

We are not talking about Vietnam, or Afghanistan, or Iraq. We are talking about bringing a massive conflict to an early end, thereby saving millions of lives.

Who gives a crap what 20-20 hindsight anti-American revisionists want to label it???

Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary.........not right, but absolutely necessary.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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The Americans knew they backed Japan into a corner. They knew Japan signed a cooperative agreement with Germany and Italy. They knew Japan was preparing for war. They knew an attack was imminent. Given that war atmosphere, the Pearl Harbor attack should not have been a complete surprise.

The Americans screwed the pooch and are lucky they didn't loose their aircraft carriers too.
 

JLM

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Vernon, B.C.
Don't fool yourself JLM. The US and other allied countries did just as many things that were just as atrocious. Only difference is the west hid it better and got to write the history as the winners.

Link please, a list of American concentration camps would be a good start!
 

JLM

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Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary.........not right, but absolutely necessary.

YOu got that right, Colpy & if they'd had any brains they would have surrendered two days before Nagasaki even happened! They were mostly to blame for Hiroshima, they were totally to blame for Nagasaki!
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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I'm sorry but just where did I say I was an expert. Please do quote or post a link.

You claim to know it all.


You're a Jarhead...you only believe what your commander tells you and have no need to know more. You probably aren't even aware of half the intelligence community, which is how it is supposed to be.

I hope you don't think Jarhead is an offensive term to me.

One thing I do know... you weren't part of any intelligence community that is for sure.


Almost the entire pacific fleet was called to Pearl in the weeks leading up to Dec 7. How is that putting more defenses in the Phillipines.

Gosh you really are ignorant. The Pacific Fleet was sent to Pearl Harbor from San Diego MONTHS earlier. The Phillipines were reinforced with additional troops. Darn your slow.

ES... you simply are ignorant to this topic. See, I can do that too. :thefinger::p

But you truly are.


Easy to give them a class of their own after the fact. At the time they were used that hadn't been done. Are you not bright enough to understand that....Oh, wait, you're a jarhead, no need to answer. :violent1:

But call it a chemical weapon? How is an atomic bomb a chemical weapon? How ignorant.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Edson, AB
YOu got that right, Colpy & if they'd had any brains they would have surrendered two days before Nagasaki even happened! They were mostly to blame for Hiroshima, they were totally to blame for Nagasaki!

The Japanese civilians were to blame for Hiroshima & Nagasaki????? I bet they sent a f*cking engraved invitation asking for a nuke to be dropped on the women and children of those cities. What logic are you using to make that proclamation? Is it because they didn't surrender earlier? By your logic the US were to blame for Pearl and the British were to blame for the Blitzkrieg, they should have just surrendered.

I'm sorry but Hirohito didn't give the order to drop either bomb, nor did the Emperor or any Japanese general. Get a grip old man.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Can you supply a link showing that the RCAF participated in the Dresden bombing?


Sure! Here you go! A Canadian film maker made a documentary and talks of Canada's role as part of the RAF Bomber Command and one episode raised all kinds of hell with regards to Dresden. You need to look in the right margin for a link there.

Also a neat tidbit about how RCAF Vets tried sueing the filmaker to no avail.

Bombing of Dresden
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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The Japanese civilians were to blame for Hiroshima & Nagasaki????? I bet they sent a f*cking engraved invitation asking for a nuke to be dropped on the women and children of those cities. What logic are you using to make that proclamation? Is it because they didn't surrender earlier? By your logic the US were to blame for Pearl and the British were to blame for the Blitzkrieg, they should have just surrendered.

I'm sorry but Hirohito didn't give the order to drop either bomb, nor did the Emperor or any Japanese general. Get a grip old man.

You would have to go back to the 1800's to see the change in Japan and their society- from Feudal to Industrial society in a very short time frame- To kicking Russian ass during their short war. Then follow their change and it was ruthless in that change from one society to another- To the Emperor as a God Like figure- So were the Japanese to blame- well it certainly was not any other country. It was their culture that brought this upon themselves.