Where is canada going?

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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It's not a crazy thought. Hell, Cuba is ahead of us on the local growing idea. On that tiny little island, they have turn little patches of ground in Havana into gardens to produce more/better food.
Why isn't the produce section of my local supermarket NOT on the roof?
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Are you sure the world you live in is the real world? The world you describe passed us by 50-60 years ago. What ever world you decide to build today, it must include feeding and supporting the world. Canada or the U.S. for that matter are not a entity unto themselves anymore. We cannot think about becoming self sufficient countries anymore, would be nice, but it is a passé statement.

On the other hand, is moving perishable and fresh food all around the world a practical concept? I'm not so sure about "feeding the world"...how about helping the world to feed itself (where needed)? Countries like India could teach us a thing or two about food, but we (North Americans) tend to think we have all the answers. I think we don't.

Self-sufficiency is not an outmoded concept, in my opinion. I don't think globalization has to include our food, nor should it. There are more disadvantages than advantages to including it in that scenario, and I think it would be better for all if we simply left it out.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Why isn't the produce section of my local supermarket NOT on the roof?

Good question. Vij's Restaurant in Vancouver grows some of their own stuff, and it seems to work well. Mind you, it is located in "lotus land" (climate) but a bit of glass and a solar heating setup would take care of that issue in less accommodating climates.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Ever deal with all the bureaucracies involved with selling food? Between marketing boards that protect Agricorp and health boards that are run by socialists that know so much better than you do what is good for you and a tax system that is a disincentive to enterprise there is not much hope.
The same is true in most industries. Twenty years ago I ran a logging company, spending most of my time on the job, a part time bookkeeper and perhaps 5% of my time in the office. Now even a two man operation requires a half time office person just to deal with all the paper work demanded by various government agencies. This is what is killing all small business, and when dealing with food there are just so many more of them in your face. Fix this problem and there is a small chance that you will see the return of the family farm.

I agree. Too much government, basically...takes the incentive out of wanting to do a good job in food, and many other efforts. I have no idea why small business still forms the backbone of the economy...it certainly isn't because of all the 'encouragement' received from our governments.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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You should learn about today's farming and ask "Where are you going to find someone rich enough to start farming?

If you think you don't need an education to farm then you shall forever be the taxslave that you are.

No clue at all about today's agribiz. Terrible considering it is what you eat.

As usual you missed the point entirely. The financial rewards of a small farm do not compensate for the knowledge or investment required, even if you already owned the land. Perhaps I should have said stupid instead of dumb.
I know a fair amount about Agribiz and its incestuous relationship with Monsanto which is why we spend a great deal of money on organic food including meat. I also fix equipment for several small farmers so I have a good idea of what they go through.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Are you sure the world you live in is the real world? The world you describe passed us by 50-60 years ago. What ever world you decide to build today, it must include feeding and supporting the world. Canada or the U.S. for that matter are not a entity unto themselves anymore. We cannot think about becoming self sufficient countries anymore, would be nice, but it is a passé statement.
Continuing down the path we are on will lead to the end. We cannot live on a baron rock. Life is interdependent on all other life. Until that realization sinks in and we start developing our technology to be in harmony with the web, we are going to be hooped. Sure there may or may not be an endless supply of oil in the ground, but to continue to use it is just plain stupid.
 

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
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Countryboy: One other you could add to your list would be improvement of Canada's broadband service. Compared to many nations what passes for internet speeds in Canada is quite poor. Many Canadians cannot get so called high speed. I currently have access only to satellite internet which is expensive, slow, and unreliable. Compare this to a country like Finland which has currently mandated speeds of 10 megabits and is going to upgrade the country to 100 megabits by 2020. Certainly if Finland can do this then so can Canada.

Also compare us to China where in spite of not having decent roads or any other type of infrastructure to speak of, they have highspeed internet and cell phones - in the middle of nowhere and in spite of mountains.

We were promised broadband access by the government and we are still waiting. Friends of mine also have satellite access, Bar Sinister, and they tell me the same thing about the expense and the fact that at times it is not a bit faster than our current dial-up speed. :x
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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As usual you missed the point entirely. The financial rewards of a small farm do not compensate for the knowledge or investment required, even if you already owned the land. Perhaps I should have said stupid instead of dumb.
Stupid is insulting people who feed you.

Stupid people in the billions have been feeding themselves and others from their lands for thousands of years.

There is no such thing as a small farm anymore or was the word you are looking for a "garden plot"?

Maybe this harvest I'll piss in the hopper while harvesting barley?

They say you only rent beer so maybe it's time to start recycling right at the producer level and get more bang for my rental dollar?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Ever deal with all the bureaucracies involved with selling food? Between marketing boards that protect Agricorp and health boards that are run by socialists that know so much better than you do what is good for you and a tax system that is a disincentive to enterprise there is not much hope.
The same is true in most industries. Twenty years ago I ran a logging company, spending most of my time on the job, a part time bookkeeper and perhaps 5% of my time in the office. Now even a two man operation requires a half time office person just to deal with all the paper work demanded by various government agencies. This is what is killing all small business, and when dealing with food there are just so many more of them in your face. Fix this problem and there is a small chance that you will see the return of the family farm.

Well I may just have to move out to the "back 40" near where Countryboy lives (not too many tax guys near there) and open the market after dark.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
:canada:[QUOTE.........a minimum of hands-on government interference, a simple tax structure, and reasonable incentives to encourage the creation of new industries necessary for our future prosperity. Am I wishing for too much?

Absolutely not .There are 2 more issues tough regarding the banks and federal income tax .You want to talk about it ? I,m listening .:canada:[/quote]

We will be governed, make no mistake. Only through the governing of capital can it be made to serve the social security priority. An easy hand on capital is exactly why the capitalist system is in crisis. The capitalist system is not ever responsibly self regulating this was why regulation like Glass Stegal and various anti-combine acts where legislated in the first place. Those exact grants of self regulation made to the class in the last twenty years such as the suspension of Glass Stegal made a bad economy worse and further consentrated the wealth of nations in fewer and fewer hands. Less regulation, will result in no effective regulation, which will accelerate the decline, if that is in fact possible. If a nation cannot see the capital in motion it cannot protect the citizenry from that same capital. Welcome to twenty-first century Canada the land of liberated capital.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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Here's a reply from the letter sent to Tony Clement - Post #78:

On behalf of the Honourable Tony Clement, Minister of Industry, thank you for your e-mail message of February 6, 2010 regarding on-line discussions of Canada’s future on the “Canadian Content” forum. I appreciate you bringing the views of discussion group members to my attention.



A common foundation underlying the list of industries that you have provided is the importance of ideas, innovation and inventiveness. The Government of Canada’s Science and Technology Strategy, Mobilizing Science and Technology to Canada’s Advantage, lays out a plan to develop three distinct Canadian advantages in ideas, innovation and inventiveness:
  • An Entrepreneurial Advantage that encourages firms to be innovators;
  • A Knowledge Advantage that puts Canadians at the international forefront of research and discovery; and
  • A People Advantage that helps build the best educated, most skilled and most flexible workforce.

    The strategy identifies four priority areas for enhanced investment and activity:
  • Environmental science and technologies
  • Natural resources and energy
  • Health and related life sciences and technologies
  • Information and communications technologies

    The overarching objective of this federal Science and Technology Strategy is to turn ideas into innovations that will improve our economic competitiveness and standard of living.
    Thank you again for writing on this important topic.

    Sincerely,


    Tim Elliot
    Director General
    Service Industries and
    Consumer Products Branch
Industry Sector
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
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Hither and yon
It's not a crazy thought. Hell, Cuba is ahead of us on the local growing idea. On that tiny little island, they have turn little patches of ground in Havana into gardens to produce more/better food. Mind you, they had to - when the Soviet Union collapsed, they found themselves without sufficient food (they had begun to rely on the USSR to ship a lot of food to them as part of the communist family) - and hunger motivated them to get creative in order to feed themselves.

They have lots of little ma and pa "farmers markets" right there in the city and it works quite well.

We have some examples of community gardens in Canada, but it could become larger and better, or at least, it has the potential to do so. We're not exactly "land starved" in Canada but we might be a bit "land spoiled"...we just take it for granted and don't really make as much use of it as we could.

So when does the "JLM Market Garden" open for business? :canada:

Cuba sucks for the Cubans unless you are a hooked up politico.

Did you know those farmers with cattle and chickens don't even own the animals?
The farmers, by law, are not allowed to eat any of their own beef or poultry.
Or an egg or milk.

Did you know the most popular national beer "Crystal" in Cuba is really Molson's Canadian?

Do you know why in those little restaurants in Varedero why the fried chicken is all "landing gear"?
Its because all the chicken breasts have been exported by law with the funds going to the state.

Did you know its illegal for the locals to harvest a few prawns or lobsters and eat them?
The state owns them.

Those little community markets in Cuba where they sell a few potatoes and onions are often the only place the locals can get any vegetables.

Ask a few locals how well the state provides the food supplies guaranteed in their "ration books".
Very poorly is the answer.

Cuba is provided funding, advice and technology in almost all sectors by Canada and Canadians.
One exception is Cuba's biomedical and biological and genetic engineering fields which it is assumed were very heavily funded by the state for potential military usage.

In the field of agriculture Canada is teaching and helping out the Cubans not vise-versa.

Trex
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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Here's a reply from the letter sent to Tony Clement - Post #78:

On behalf of the Honourable Tony Clement, Minister of Industry, thank you for your e-mail message of February 6, 2010 regarding on-line discussions of Canada’s future on the “Canadian Content” forum. I appreciate you bringing the views of discussion group members to my attention.



A common foundation underlying the list of industries that you have provided is the importance of ideas, innovation and inventiveness. The Government of Canada’s Science and Technology Strategy, Mobilizing Science and Technology to Canada’s Advantage, lays out a plan to develop three distinct Canadian advantages in ideas, innovation and inventiveness:
  • An Entrepreneurial Advantage that encourages firms to be innovators;
  • A Knowledge Advantage that puts Canadians at the international forefront of research and discovery; and
  • A People Advantage that helps build the best educated, most skilled and most flexible workforce.

    The strategy identifies four priority areas for enhanced investment and activity:
  • Environmental science and technologies
  • Natural resources and energy
  • Health and related life sciences and technologies
  • Information and communications technologies

    The overarching objective of this federal Science and Technology Strategy is to turn ideas into innovations that will improve our economic competitiveness and standard of living.
    Thank you again for writing on this important topic.

    Sincerely,


    Tim Elliot
    Director General
    Service Industries and
    Consumer Products Branch
Industry Sector
Typical governmental propaganda. They're failing in several areas: they don't push environmentally sensitive technology development enough (The USA is even more green than we are, Germany makes us look like infants when it comes to solar energy, Portugal makes us look like infants when it comes to harnessing ocean energy, etc), cater to environmentally destructive concerns too much, and probably fail in other areas, too.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
39
48
BC
Typical governmental propaganda. They're failing in several areas: they don't push environmentally sensitive technology development enough, cater to environmentally destructive concerns too much, and probably fail in other areas, too.

This "reply" was so weak I didn't even think it qualified as good government propaganda. It pretty much amounts to nothing.

Being a bit of a glutton for punishment, I guess I'll do another letter to see if anyone is actually alive in that department.