Whats your take on Unions?

[darkbeaver]

Well, more like there were no farms until farmers built them. A farmer is the labour and the management and the entrepreneur.

Your point about labour being so important makes it seem like having an idea and turning it into a business has no value.

Did you have an idea spontaneously or did you do the mental labour? Why is it so hard to get the idea accross that there is only labour in all the various forms. The meaning of labour is certainly not confined to the pick and shovel crews. So having an idea and building it into a viable business is definately labour. Find one business owner who will insist that he accomplished the task, whatever it was, without personal labour. The divison between physical and mental labour dosn't realy exist. Pushing a pen burns calories, very often lots of them. So the farmer and management and the entrepreneur are all labourers first and formost. And then we have capital which is not any form of labour whatever.

 

[Nuggler]

Maybe the shareholders should hire some thugs to smash knee caps?

That's been tried (Edmonton Riots). But the thugs were the cops.

Smashing kneecaps works both ways.

 

[darkbeaver]

The difference between labour and capital is production. Capital produces absolutely nothing. Capitalism could not exist without the production of labour. Capitilism is the exploitation of that which already exists through labour. So if you produce be it a business plan or a set of prints or a new process you are definitely still living on the fruits of your own input of labour regardless of the form. The capitalist manipulates the already existing products of surplus labour which is capital. As I remember. So many capitalist sympathizers aren't even in the game, but they have dreams, which the capitalist knows better than he/she does. So if you're producing something you are labour despite the title on your door. Don't let the artificial divisions introduced by capital fool you into believing you ain't working.

 

[TenPenny]

The difference between labour and capital is production. Capital produces absolutely nothing. Capitalism could not exist without the production of labour. Capitilism is the exploitation of that which already exists through labour. So if you produce be it a business plan or a set of prints or a new process you are definitely still living on the fruits of your own input of labour regardless of the form. The capitalist manipulates the already existing products of surplus labour which is capital. As I remember. So many capitalist sympathizers aren't even in the game, but they have dreams, which the capitalist knows better than he/she does. So if you're producing something you are labour despite the title on your door. Don't let the artificial divisions introduced by capital fool you into believing you ain't working.

You don't own your own house, do you.

 

[darkbeaver]

You don't own your own house, do you.

I do, two of them actually, both built by yours truly.

 

[petros]

Point taken. Since you have a "union" shop, how are promotions made? As mentioned in a previous post, is it via senority or qualifications and work ethics?
My experience has been the former rather than the latter. What's yours?

It's ****ty, tough, lonely work with long 16hr days if you want OT over 12 and a two week on two week off routine. Some come for the adventure some for the money. The ones who get favoured are the ones with the balls to come back after two weeks off.

It's not a situation where you find the pot bellied old hard nosers with chips on their shoulders who complain about silly **** like using the metric system.

 

[JLM]

It's ****ty, tough, lonely work with long 16hr days if you want OT over 12 and a two week on two week off routine. Some come for the adventure some for the money. The ones who get favoured are the ones with the balls to come back after two weeks off.

It's not a situation where you find the pot bellied old hard nosers with chips on their shoulders who complain about silly **** like using the metric system.

You got that right, my son works in the patch and working 40-50 days straight isn't uncommon (especially lately with the spottiness of the work he doesn't dare take days off as he never knows how many days he has left before he's finished). He's been working out of Red Deer since mid Nov. with about 10 days off over Xmas. Oh yeah one question for you............what does the metric system have to do with work ethic? Don't really see a connection. (Now that you've metioned it there's a subject for another day.)

 

[petros]

I'll take hardrock over oil anyday thanks.

There is no shortage of work diamond drilling. $60K a year for newbies and $80K for a driller. That is at net straight time not including OT or bonuses.

The willingness to learn and adapt an important work ethic. Would you hire Mr Goodpliers?

 

[Johnnny]

Looks like Vale Inco is filing a lawsuit against the Strikers Union over threats of intimidation and violence

Sudbury Local News - Vale Inco files lawsuit over websites

about time, the day they started threating people (OTHER SUDBURIANS) is the day i stopped caring about their cause

 

[warmuzak]

Two of my jobs had union involvement. One was in a steel company and was unionized the other was a company under contract with a major courier. Both experiences with unions turned me against them. The unions always protected those who should have been terminated for unsafe work practices and poor work ethics. But because they were in the union they got a slap on the wrist (if even that) a warning and there was no change in the attitudes of the disciplined individuals.

The worst was when one of the courier drivers came to work drunk and as they left the hub to start their rounds they lost control of the truck and ditched it just outside of the parking lot.
1. No one sent her home when her condition was obvious
2. After she crashed and the reoprts were completed she was sent home for a week and was allowed to return despite the damage to the vehicle, parcels, and the fact that this had happened before.
Thanks to the union.

She could have killed someone and they protected this person.

Then they strike for pay and better conditions and whatever for people like this.

There is no use for unions anylonger.

 

[JLM]

Two of my jobs had union involvement. One was in a steel company and was unionized the other was a company under contract with a major courier. Both experiences with unions turned me against them. The unions always protected those who should have been terminated for unsafe work practices and poor work ethics. But because they were in the union they got a slap on the wrist (if even that) a warning and there was no change in the attitudes of the disciplined individuals.

The worst was when one of the courier drivers came to work drunk and as they left the hub to start their rounds they lost control of the truck and ditched it just outside of the parking lot.
1. No one sent her home when her condition was obvious
2. After she crashed and the reoprts were completed she was sent home for a week and was allowed to return despite the damage to the vehicle, parcels, and the fact that this had happened before.
Thanks to the union.

She could have killed someone and they protected this person.

Then they strike for pay and better conditions and whatever for people like this.

There is no use for unions anylonger.

That sounds pretty close to the bullsh*t I observed for almost 30 years- just there for the drones, parasites and trouble makers- the only thing they can measure is seniority, no appreciation for knowledge, skills or work ethic.

 

[Johnnny]

I wont lie, my first job when i was 16 as a bag boy at the grocery store, i was unionized... I loved it but then again i was young and a little dumber eh..... BUT i abused my right to do **** all every chance i got

 

[relic]

In my limited personal experience with unions,I can say that a lot of people would be on the street with out their union.Too many bottom feeders use union membership in lieu of a work ethic.

 

[JLM]

In my limited personal experience with unions,I can say that a lot of people would be on the street with out their union.Too many bottom feeders use union membership in lieu of a work ethic.

YEP, from my experience a lot.............:lol::lol::lol:

 

[AnnaG]

"Whats your take on Unions?"

There are good ones and there are bad ones and some in between.

 

[Risus]

Union leaders are greedy ba$tard$ who don't give a crap for their members. Unions no longer serve a purpose, except to protect the lazy. I have seen companies close their factories, and go to the Orient because of strike demands.

 

[Johnnny]

i know of a good example, Vale Inco has been contracting geophysical exploration to other companies. They bring the Em unit to the other company show them how it works and away the other company goes. Something about union costs?

 

[JLM]

Union leaders are greedy ba$tard$ who don't give a crap for their members. Unions no longer serve a purpose, except to protect the lazy. I have seen companies close their factories, and go to the Orient because of strike demands.

You got 'em pegged, Risus. (Still haven't forgot that pending bet :lol

 

[Risus]

(Still haven't forgot that pending bet :lol

Are you related to an elephant? 8O

 

[AnnaG]

Last time I looked at the union newspaper that Les gets, the firefighters' union was fighting to have certain cancers declared a job hazard. I guess that's an example of a union not being of any use to the members.