Vatican Forgives John Lennon

[gopher]

Here are the lyrics to Imagine


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one




Notice how John put the issue of religion within the context of killing. Alan Watts was a popular philosopher at that time. His writings about religion with its role in promoting war deaths was well known to Lennon and other anti war activists.

 

[Risus]

Gopher, sorry but I disagree with your interpretation. He says "Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for": If there were no countries, there would be no need for war.. Relating religion within the context of killing doesn't make any sense.

 

[Risus]

The statement in question goes back to around 1965 - when records were smashed and t-shirts were burned. "We're bigger than Jesus Christ".... Of course, it was taken out of context.

That isn't what gopher and I were talking about... If you look at the quote I took from gopher you will see that he was referring to Lennon's song Imagine. Nothing to do with Lennon's original quote. Please read....

 

[talloola]

Here are the lyrics to Imagine


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one




Notice how John put the issue of religion within the context of killing. Alan Watts was a popular philosopher at that time. His writings about religion with its role in promoting war deaths was well known to Lennon and other anti war activists.

Is this the same song that he says,"imagine if there was a war, and no one came", I have
always remembered that line, as it hits home so clearly, and maybe someday it will be
true, and they can't force anyone to fight a war, as people get tired of doing so many
things, but it is taking them far too long to get 'bloody' tired of killing each other.

 

[gerryh]

another excuse to bash Roman Catholics.:roll:

 

[lone wolf]

That isn't what gopher and I were talking about... If you look at the quote I took from gopher you will see that he was referring to Lennon's song Imagine. Nothing to do with Lennon's original quote. Please read....

Yeah ... didn't read it all. There's no need for you to get trollish....

 

[lone wolf]

another excuse to bash Roman Catholics.:roll:

Geez ... you have a persecution complex that would do Israel proud.

 

[Cliffy]

lone wolf,

One of the great competitions of the ages between Catholics and Jews - who has the most guilt and the biggest persecution complexes. Perhaps it's because their religions come from the same source. I wonder what happened to the Muslims? They reversed the whole thing and now want to make everyone feel guilty and persecute them.

 

[lone wolf]

lone wolf,

One of the great competitions of the ages between Catholics and Jews - who has the most guilt and the biggest persecution complexes. Perhaps it's because their religions come from the same source. I wonder what happened to the Muslims? They reversed the whole thing and now want to make everyone feel guilty and persecute them.

I think religion deserves its own Twelve Step program....

 

[Cliffy]

I think religion deserves its own Twelve Step program....

lone wolf,

It is an addiction for sure.

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Lennon said, "Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

Said1, it was an editorial in the Vatican paper L'Osservatore Romano "to mark the 40th anniversary of the release of The Beatles' "White Album" in which the publication praised Lennon and the Fab Four and took a more understanding view of his controversial utterance." His controversial utterance? ...tsk tsk Mr. Lennon.

I bet the new, red-leather-footed pope is a closet Beatles fan who just couldn't stand to have this condemnation still on the books. You'll find the White Album tucked in between his copies of Gregorian Chants and Lucianno Pavarotti's O Holy Night.

 

[Cliffy]

I think the Pope is more concerned about the drastic drop in revenue do to the Vatican's unpopular stance on just about everything. Millions of people respected John. Maybe he is trying to bring them back into the fold so he can bilk them of their hard cash. Red leather foot wear is expensive you know.

 

[Francis2004]

Hummm being Catholic I am not sure how this will impact me.. Let me think about this how this will feed the hungry, save the poor and sick and bring wars to an end..

Nope..

And it surely will not change John Lennon's life as he has been dead ( since Dec 8 , 1980 ) way to long and should be a Saint but can't because he is not Catholic but rather Anglican from Birth that will never happen..

What another waste of time and effort by my Pope.. Another sign that he has nothing better to do.. Then people ask me why I do not believe in my Church.. Please don't ask again..

 

[Said1]

Lennon said, "Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

Said1, it was an editorial in the Vatican paper L'Osservatore Romano "to mark the 40th anniversary of the release of The Beatles' "White Album" in which the publication praised Lennon and the Fab Four and took a more understanding view of his controversial utterance." His controversial utterance? ...tsk tsk Mr. Lennon.

I bet the new, red-leather-footed pope is a closet Beatles fan who just couldn't stand to have this condemnation still on the books. You'll find the White Album tucked in between his copies of Gregorian Chants and Lucianno Pavarotti's O Holy Night.

I was asking if anyone saw the actual words "I forgive John Lennon"? Anyone? I've been browsing around the web site and suddenly have the urge to recite the angelus and hour early!

If someone feels like searching try here: Vatican - Search

 

[scratch]

In my personal and humble opinion, it has been hidden never to be found!
rgs

 

[Cliffy]

In my personal and humble opinion, it has been hidden never to be found!

A confession with an expiry date? Interesting!

 

[scratch]

You do not agree?

 

[Cliffy]

Sure! I'm sure someone at the Vatican is reading blogs to see what people think of their shenanigans and decided that it was a mistake to post such a stupid thing in the first place.

 

[scratch]

Well they all don't run at 100 watts.
rgs

 

[gerryh]

Lennon pardon 'probably not' work of Pope - Yahoo!7 News

A prominent Catholic historian says the Pope is unlikely to be behind an apparent pardon of John Lennon for his 'bigger than Jesus' comments.
Lennon was 26 years old when he famously told London's Evening Standard newspaper that his band, The Beatles, were more popular than Jesus.
When the comments were reprinted in the United States they caused an uproar.
But Lennon remained unrepentant, saying "I was pointing out that fact, in reference to England, that we meant more to kids than Jesus did or religion at that time. I wasn't knocking it or putting it down, I was just saying it for the fact."
The semi-official Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano appears to have forgiven the musician.
In an editorial, the remarks are described as the boast of a young English working class musician who had grown up in the age of Elvis Presley and rock-n-roll, and had enjoyed unexpected success.
Church historian and Catholic commentator Paul Collins says the opinions printed in the paper do not necessarily reflect those of the Pope.
"It is checked on by the Secretariat of State, I suppose we would call it censored by the Secretariat of State which is really the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet within the Vatican," he said.
"But while its articles on theology would certainly be taken as representing the Vatican's point of view, something like this John Lennon article sounds like a bit of a colour piece, as we would call it in Australia."
He says it would be a stretch to assume that the Pope has now forgiven Lennon for those controversial comments.
"I think Benedict the 16th would hardly know who John Lennon was," he said.
"I know that that might be surprising to many people, but the reality is that Joseph Ratzinger - Benedict the 16th - is a man whose entire interest is in classical music and more particularly in Mozart.
"So I think it is quite unlikely that he would be a keen listener to John Lennon and very unlikely that he would care very much about John Lennon at all."
The editorial in L'Osservatore Romano was printed to mark the 40th anniversary of the release of the Beatles' White Album.
The paper describes the album as a magical musical anthology and says the Beatles songs have shown an extraordinary capacity for survival.
Paul Collins says that does not mean John Lennon has been proved correct.
"If you were to count all Christians you would be getting up to close to two billion adherence," he said.
"I am sure that John Lennon had a lot of fans but I wonder if he had quite as many as that."
_Based on a report for AM by Barbara Miller_