Vatican Forgives John Lennon
- Thread starter mt_pockets1000
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A prayer avowing that your are truly sorry for your sins which you just confessed.
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because they offend thee, my God, Who art all-good and deserving
of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace to confess my sins, to do penance and to amend my life.
Amen.
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Again, the only way you can make your view seem intelligent is to assert that mine is illogical. From this your able to place yourself on the very pulpit that you accuse "religious" people preach from. Facts may scare away ones who depend solely on their man-made religions, but they're not going to scare this cowboy.
Treat me with kid's gloves? We'll see about that. Stifle free speech? I find it amusing that one who finds morality relative would stick up for free speech. Is it your own, benign moral feeling that such a thing should be sacred? It certainly can't be god-given. If it is your opinion and solely your opinion that free speech is important, I'm afraid that's NOT true freedom. Your opinion, as mine, is groundless. Its nothing. For free speech to be TRULY INALIENABLE morality cannot be relative.
Getting back to your prior post, I see I'm going to have to make the argument one of these days, that I actually am logical. Its ILLOGICAL to assume your view is the only logical one. Its ILLOGICAL to assume logic and reason themselves are a golden ticket to the (objective I might add) truth. I know I am logical, but I also know that all my logic, reason and rational thought could lead me to the wrong answer, as with anyone.
As for being antagonistic, all I want to do is debate. If you want an ideological war, please accept my friends request first. True warriors respect their adversary.
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Now I see we will begin the nit picking. I never said a belief in god or a higher power is illogical. Religion is illogical because most, if not all, require blind belief in or obedience to something someone else' (pick any church, synagogue or mosque) version or dogma.
A personal journey of discovery is the only logical one; question, investigate, study, communicate with others. I think you will remember that Jesus said the path is narrow. Religion is a super highway leading nowhere. Jesus, according to the myth, spent 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness fighting his personal demons in search of the truth.
Anyone who takes the short cut of religion, who accepts that a bunch of stories written by men is the truth, is lazy and short circuiting the process. That path leads down blind alleys. If you have been out in the wilderness, you know that it is easier to communicate with your creator than it is in a city. There is a good reason for that and I think you can easily figure out why.
When a local minister asked me why I did not go to church I said that god made forests, man made churches. Who you gonna trust? I think you know where I plagiarized that from.
A personal journey of discovery is the only logical one; question, investigate, study, communicate with others. I think you will remember that Jesus said the path is narrow. Religion is a super highway leading nowhere. Jesus, according to the myth, spent 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness fighting his personal demons in search of the truth.
Anyone who takes the short cut of religion, who accepts that a bunch of stories written by men is the truth, is lazy and short circuiting the process. That path leads down blind alleys. If you have been out in the wilderness, you know that it is easier to communicate with your creator than it is in a city. There is a good reason for that and I think you can easily figure out why.
When a local minister asked me why I did not go to church I said that god made forests, man made churches. Who you gonna trust? I think you know where I plagiarized that from.
Oh yeah, that one, I've said it many many times when I was a pupil of the catholic school, and
went to confession once a week.
sure glad that is gone and was forgotton, till this moment.
It is embarrassing to think that, as a child, someone taught me to do that, how degrading and
foolish to sit and beg some god to forgive me for what,- maybe I swore once that week, and felt guilty all week till I went to confession, but some other schmuck might have murdured
someone, and god will also forgive him/her, what a joke, thankfully we have courts, or all
sins would be equal in the eyes of the god, just ask forgiveness, doesn't matter what you did, just pretend you are 'truly' sorry, that'll do it.
but some other schmuck might have murdured
someone, and god will also forgive him/her
That is why so many mafioso hit men are catholic and why at least one member of the family was expected to join the clergy or a convent - god insiders. I wouldn't doubt if half the cardinals are mafioso family members. Could it be why they elected a nazi pope?
someone, and god will also forgive him/her
That is why so many mafioso hit men are catholic and why at least one member of the family was expected to join the clergy or a convent - god insiders. I wouldn't doubt if half the cardinals are mafioso family members. Could it be why they elected a nazi pope?
OK, I don't care if 'the god' forgives him, while he is spending his life behind bars.
or is given the death penalty.
One thing I've noticed is the different interpretations of what religion is. I define it as all the ceremonies and rituals that man clearly has invented, not the main ideological view. All the man made junk is illogical because its unnecessary and pointless. You just said that the belief itself in God is logical, then you say pick any church, synagogue or mosque, version or dogma, and that's illogical. But you compounding the main point to faith(which itself can be examined) with all other aspects to it. All the religious nonsense. Your trying to have your cake and eat it too.
Let me put it this way:
I believe a supremely intelligent being created the entire universe. So far logical, right? Well, when I spend time pondering, it only seems logical that IF a intelligent being created this amazing universe he would care about his creation. Which leads me to the next question: Has God revealed any truths about himself to us(humans) so that we may know he exists?
That's when I take:
After exhaustive study into all views, I determine that some truths have been revealed through one faith(not religion). That's when the atheist wall comes up: "Your illogical, unreasonable, ignorant, and stupid." Its all just denying the validity of one view, among the denial of other things.
The right way to live is narrow, esp. if attempting to live up to the near impossible standards Jesus talked about. The actual way to God isn't a path at all. ITS A DOOR. One only needs to walk thru it.
That's a pretty broad statement. I'm sure a lot of religions have some truths to them, maybe not supernatural claims, but at least world wisdom we've all accepted.
See? Denial.
He wasn't exactly fighting his demons, but I'm not going to get into a whole thing on that one(today). I got other threads to read.
Bunch of stories? -sigh- ....lazy? not at all.
Well, I am partial to alleyz. But I know for a fact that a biased person can still be objective.;-)
As an avid outdoorsman, I can actually tell you that it is easier to communicate to God in the wilderness. For me, that's a huge thread in itself. One day...I promise.
Agreed. I don't go to church, maybe I should. Churches that stick to the true meaning are a very genuine brotherhood. As soon as religion or religious fanaticism takes over is when problems occur.
I'll just stick to debating with the people who have accepted my friend's request;-)
You know what? We sure do discuss a lot of this stuff on this forum. There's gotta be other topics to take in for awhile. Lemme think? Hmmmmm... Got any?
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Yet this website (and many more) calls the L'Osservatore Romano the 'official' Vatican newspaper, not a 'semi-official' Vatican newspaper. Who are we to believe? I don't hear the pope himself denying the apology. C'mon Ratzinger lets hear it.
I don’t know about searching the website, Said1, but I do remember seeing it on television in the last couple of days, that there will be an item in the official Vatican newsletter (or whatever they have got) officially forgiving John Lennon. It is not just an Internet rumour.
[FONT="]If it is not already there, it will appear shortly, I saw it in the news on TV[/FONT]
Depends upon where it is reported, Scratch. If CBC, CTV, CNN absolutely. If it is reported on FOX news, I would be suspicious.