U.S. to re-route Keystone XL due to environmental concerns

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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The development of an oil industry in a particular country or region works best when the government and oil industry work together to achieve common goals.
An adversarial approach between governments and oil industry does not work well at all and it seems everybody loses..
 

carmen2010

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Dec 29, 2011
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That style of action is what will get the US State Dept moving on this. Obama is simply deferring the issue until after the upcoming Presidential elections.

If I were to guess, Harper et al will throw their support behind the West Coast line and (hopefully) also push for refining of the Canadian product in Canada prior to shipping it to Asia/Pacific Rim.
Great work Obama! What is the big deal about the tar sands anyway? Are you Albertans getting rich from it without seeing how it's really the bankrollers of the deal that get rich while everything else gets polluted?

Can anyone tell me what the air quality is like in Alberta? Can you take some pics of the tar sands and put them up on flickr and give the link here? I've seen all the youtube videos, read the papers about it, but have no idea what the smell, the cost of air/water is like. What brought me to this forum was the fact that I'd rather get the scoop from people who live there (Alberta), not just paper reports. I was trying to find out if you have an air quality index to tell you the pollution levels. Thanks.

I wouldn't trust any pipeline made and assembled outside North America, for all we know they used straws in Nigeria.
Pipeline came from India where it was made with recycled materials. Win/win cheap and a new trading partner for Harper. Oh, lose/ lose 'cause cheap metal is cheap metal and spills on the tundra mean oil in the soil, soaked down deep, ready and waiting for the bush fires.

Can anyone tell me where Slave Lake is and if at all there is any relationship to fracking or pipeline spills around there? Bears with oilcans? Anyone? Anyone?
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Can anyone tell me what the air quality is like in Alberta? Can you take some pics of the tar sands and put them up on flickr and give the link here? I've seen all the youtube videos, read the papers about it, but have no idea what the smell, the cost of air/water is like. What brought me to this forum was the fact that I'd rather get the scoop from people who live there (Alberta), not just paper reports. I was trying to find out if you have an air quality index to tell you the pollution levels. Thanks.

Air is good here. You can go to the environment canada website for air quality reports. As has been pointed out, pictures of the tar sands make for good propaganda but don't tell the whole story. Here are some pictures of the old City of Edmonton land fill



 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Great work Obama! What is the big deal about the tar sands anyway? Are you Albertans getting rich from it without seeing how it's really the bankrollers of the deal that get rich while everything else gets polluted?

Can anyone tell me what the air quality is like in Alberta? Can you take some pics of the tar sands and put them up on flickr and give the link here? I've seen all the youtube videos, read the papers about it, but have no idea what the smell, the cost of air/water is like. What brought me to this forum was the fact that I'd rather get the scoop from people who live there (Alberta), not just paper reports. I was trying to find out if you have an air quality index to tell you the pollution levels. Thanks.


Pipeline came from India where it was made with recycled materials. Win/win cheap and a new trading partner for Harper. Oh, lose/ lose 'cause cheap metal is cheap metal and spills on the tundra mean oil in the soil, soaked down deep, ready and waiting for the bush fires.

Can anyone tell me where Slave Lake is and if at all there is any relationship to fracking or pipeline spills around there? Bears with oilcans? Anyone? Anyone?

When the alternative is greeter at wallywirld, serving fries at rotten ronnies for minimum wage or changing diapers on some rich retiree from Ontario for not much more than that making a 100g a year digging for oil isn't all that bad. The pics that Kakato has posted of reclaimed areas look good.
Also what you have to remember is that if it was not for the demand for petroleum products by city slickers to the south there would be no oil sands or the huge contribution they make to the economy of the whole country.
To me people that drive or fly to anti oil sands & pipeline protests look about as silly as anti logging protesters that live in wood houses, make signs out of paper and wipe their asses with paper.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Globe and Mail has been really nailing it recently..

Why Keystone XL is a mistake

Giving Keystone XL the go-ahead would be a huge blow to Canada’s diversification strategy, such as it is, and the efforts to create value-added businesses and high-paying, skilled jobs. This country has always moved with alacrity to export raw, or semi-raw, materials into the U.S. market—oil, minerals, logs, fish and commodities. It’s a never-ending cycle of unambitious or non-existent industrial strategies. Just think of what the Chinese, Koreans, Indians or Japanese would do with Alberta, home of the world’s second-largest oil reserves. The province would be stuffed with upgraders, refineries and factories that would make everything from rubber duckies to tires.

Alberta, thank you, would rather take a pass. To be sure, it has endless excuses, some valid, many more not. The main excuse is that the technology to upgrade the tarry oil sands bitumen is still imperfect and very expensive, meaning it’s not attractive to investors. Note: Canada’s large pension funds are among the most powerful investors on the planet, but they’d rather pump money into European infrastructure than Canadian refineries. Profit margins are better when existing refineries (largely American) are modified to upgrade heavy oils and turn them into a broad range of products that can be pumped into nearby markets.

The traditional argument is leaky, however, because upgraders are now—ever so slowly—being built in Alberta. About 60% of the current output from the oil sands is upgraded in the province, but that percentage would likely shrink drastically if production soars.

With the Canadian dollar falling again, oil prices stubbornly high in spite of looming recessions, and technology that is improving, the risks of building upgraders and refineries are declining. They may not be as profitable as U.S. refineries, but they would make money. And think of the spinoffs from a new industrial base. Shiny new Canadian refineries would probably be cleaner than the old bangers south of the border.

Expanding the oil sands should be conditional on upgrading the output somewhere in Canada—Alberta or the refinery complexes in Montreal and Sarnia, Ontario, which rely on imported oil. Building the Keystone XL pipeline is a cop-out, especially since Canada is awash in capital. If the oil sands are to be expanded to the point where they melt the planet, at least stud them with refineries to create some wealth along the highway to hell.


Why Keystone XL is a mistake - The Globe and Mail
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Globe and Mail has been really nailing it recently..

Why Keystone XL is a mistake

Giving Keystone XL the go-ahead would be a huge blow to Canada’s diversification strategy, such as it is, and the efforts to create value-added businesses and high-paying, skilled jobs. This country has always moved with alacrity to export raw, or semi-raw, materials into the U.S. market—oil, minerals, logs, fish and commodities. It’s a never-ending cycle of unambitious or non-existent industrial strategies. Just think of what the Chinese, Koreans, Indians or Japanese would do with Alberta, home of the world’s second-largest oil reserves. The province would be stuffed with upgraders, refineries and factories that would make everything from rubber duckies to tires.

Alberta, thank you, would rather take a pass. To be sure, it has endless excuses, some valid, many more not. The main excuse is that the technology to upgrade the tarry oil sands bitumen is still imperfect and very expensive, meaning it’s not attractive to investors. Note: Canada’s large pension funds are among the most powerful investors on the planet, but they’d rather pump money into European infrastructure than Canadian refineries. Profit margins are better when existing refineries (largely American) are modified to upgrade heavy oils and turn them into a broad range of products that can be pumped into nearby markets.

The traditional argument is leaky, however, because upgraders are now—ever so slowly—being built in Alberta. About 60% of the current output from the oil sands is upgraded in the province, but that percentage would likely shrink drastically if production soars.

With the Canadian dollar falling again, oil prices stubbornly high in spite of looming recessions, and technology that is improving, the risks of building upgraders and refineries are declining. They may not be as profitable as U.S. refineries, but they would make money. And think of the spinoffs from a new industrial base. Shiny new Canadian refineries would probably be cleaner than the old bangers south of the border.

Expanding the oil sands should be conditional on upgrading the output somewhere in Canada—Alberta or the refinery complexes in Montreal and Sarnia, Ontario, which rely on imported oil. Building the Keystone XL pipeline is a cop-out, especially since Canada is awash in capital. If the oil sands are to be expanded to the point where they melt the planet, at least stud them with refineries to create some wealth along the highway to hell.


Why Keystone XL is a mistake - The Globe and Mail

FINE! Then let's get ON with it. **** Elizabeth May and the damned bunch of idiotic Greenpeacers, Global warming fanatics and Al Gore fetishists that would have caniption fits at the increase of refining installations in Alberta..........or anything else that actually develops this country and makes it richer........let's pass laws that encourage Alberta and Canadian capital to upgrade in this country..........

**** Obama. When the Yanks finally figure out just how big an idiot he truly is (probably when the GOP actually offers them an alternative) and throw him out on his ear, the USA will be pleading with us for oil, in any grade available.

As for the Keystone pipeline....Take it NOW. or forget about it.........and pay us a much higher price for oil upgraded in Canada with thousands of Canadian jobs.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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As for the Keystone pipeline....Take it NOW. or forget about it.........and pay us a much higher price for oil upgraded in Canada with thousands of Canadian jobs.


Keystone XL will go through, it's only a matter of waiting for an election. If the Reps take the presidency, they will green-light it immediately; if Obama wins, the pipeline will be the first promise that he breaks.

In the end, once the Enbridge line to the West coast gets approval, the cost of WTI will start to get closer to Brent and that means nothing but more cash for Canada.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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A hydrocarbon (benzine) bound to a nitrate.

Keystone XL will go through, it's only a matter of waiting for an election. If the Reps take the presidency, they will green-light it immediately; if Obama wins, the pipeline will be the first promise that he breaks.

In the end, once the Enbridge line to the West coast gets approval, the cost of WTI will start to get closer to Brent and that means nothing but more cash for Canada.
It won't take an election. America is relying on XL for the $Zillions being sunk into North Dakota & Montana to get their own oil to market at the Pt Arthur bourse.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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Keystone XL will go through, it's only a matter of waiting for an election. If the Reps take the presidency, they will green-light it immediately; if Obama wins, the pipeline will be the first promise that he breaks.

In the end, once the Enbridge line to the West coast gets approval, the cost of WTI will start to get closer to Brent and that means nothing but more cash for Canada.
Agree, the P/L will go ahead, it's just a matter of waiting for the election to be over. Even Obama will probably approve it if he's reelected.
We also need the West Coast line, this one might be more difficult to get approved given all the opposition to it. But it must proceed.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I think the pipeline will go ahead as well.

But it would a helluva lot funnier if it didn't.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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You want to continue to rely on Mid-Eastern oil rather than on what we can produce between us go right ahead, and just be an observer as oil prices go through the roof. You have to buy food also. China doesn't care about either of us at all, they poison our children's toys and kill our pets.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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I find that anytime the Alberta energy industry is mentioned many people jump on the "hate Alberta" bandwagon.
That's the only thing I can figure even though Alberta is pretty well supplying the east with jobs for as many people as they can send.
Anyone with any mutual funds are probably investors in an oilsands project in Fort mc-crack also unless they have only ethical funds.
Even then some of the sagd oil extraction projects probably fall in that list.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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A hydrocarbon (benzine) bound to a nitrate.

It won't take an election. America is relying on XL for the $Zillions being sunk into North Dakota & Montana to get their own oil to market at the Pt Arthur bourse.

A hydrocarbon & a nitrate. Hmmm add an oxidizer and you got the makings of a bomb.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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You want to continue to rely on Mid-Eastern oil rather than on what we can produce between us go right ahead, and just be an observer as oil prices go through the roof. You have to buy food also. China doesn't care about either of us at all, they poison our children's toys and kill our pets.

No we could send oil to the east coast if the desire to do so was there. Trouble is too many of us remember Trudeau so the desire for a line eastward is just not there. Safer to sell to Asia.