Turkey to challenge Israel’s blockade of Gaza in international court

[CDNBear]

That's what happens when one can't argue the legitimacy of the blockade......they try to nit pick little points here and there, just so they don't have to concede.

That blockade was legal Period.

Who wants to concede it's legal, when they're to busy demonizing Israel?

Blockade is Legal CDNBear, Colpy, DaSleeper, earth_as_one, Goober, Just the Facts, lone wolf, Ron in Regina, taxslave

 

[AbtFet]

It is quite simple really.

No matter who started it, or who is at fault, there are hostilities between Gaza and Israel. Therefore, Israel has every right to impose and enforce a naval blockade.

That is the law.

Do you think Gazans have the right to try and fight the blockade if it impedes their economy and puts a strangle hold on their standard of living ?

 

[Colpy]

Do you think Gazans have the right to try and fight the blockade if it impedes their economy and puts a strangle hold on their standard of living ?

Sure.

Good Luck with that......considering they have no navy.

My point is that if you are a "neutral" and you attack the military forces of one side in a conflict while those forces are carrying out their completely legal duties..........

Don't come crying to the world when you get your head blown off.

The Turks asked for it.

In fact they begged for it.

 

[DaSleeper]

Do you think Gazans have the right to try and fight the blockade if it impedes their economy and puts a strangle hold on their standard of living ?

They may have a right to fight the blockade ....but quit crying if they loose...

Just remember that it is not the Gazans who were on that boat but other people trying to bait the Israeli to make a show...
Greenpeace pulls those stunts all the time.

 

[earth_as_one]

I understand unreasonable and excessive force.

I taught armed guards how to avoid unreasonable and excessive force.

In Canadian law, lethal force can ONLY be used if you or another person are in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm...

The UN committee looked at the IDF's use of lethal force and determined that it was unreasonable and excessive.

From their report:

117. Israel’s decision to board the vessels with such substantial force at a great
distance from the blockade zone and with no final warning immediately prior to the
boarding was excessive and unreasonable:
a. Non-violent options should have been used in the first instance. In
particular, clear prior warning that the vessels were to be boarded and a
demonstration of dissuading force should have been given to avoid the type
of confrontation that occurred;
b. The operation should have reassessed its options when the resistance to the
initial boarding attempt became apparent so as to minimize casualties.

At 4.32 a.m., Israeli forces launched the attack without prior warning when
several speedboats drew alongside the Mavi Marmara and IDF personnel commenced an
attempt to board the vessel.63 The speedboats were shortly followed by combat
helicopters. IDF personnel began firing on the Mavi Marmara from both the speedboats
and helicopters before boarding had commenced.64 This included the use of live fire
(including automatic and semi-automatic weapon fire) as well as stun and smoke
grenades, paintball guns and rubber bullets.65 Two passengers were killed by shots from
the helicopters before the first soldiers had boarded the vessel.66

34. As a consequence nine passengers were killed. Turkish autopsy reports
concluded that five of the deceased were shot in the head at close range.72 The Turkish
Commission describes those killed as follows:
- Furkan Doğan received five gunshot wounds in the back of his head, nose, left leg, left ankle
and in the back, all from close range. A citizen of the United States, Mr. Doğan was a 19-
year-old high school student with ambitions of becoming a medical doctor. Mr. Doğan’s
motionless, wounded body was kicked and shot upon, execution-style by two Israeli soldiers.

http://www.un.org/News/dh/infocus/middle_east/Gaza_Flotilla_Panel_Report.pdf

I judge the use of lethal force in response to lethal force as justified. Since the IDF never gave the Mavi Marmara a warning that they would resort to force if they didn't stop and immediately escalated the level of violence to lethal levels before boarding, then I would say that the people on the Mavi Marmara could justify the use of lethal force in defense against the IDF's unreasonable and excessive use of lethal force. I suppose they could have went up on deck and put targets on their foreheads to assist the IDF's use of excessive and unreasonable use of lethal force.

I don't judge the use of lethal force execution style after someone has been subdued as reasonable. I judge it as murder.

 

[CDNBear]

Since the IDF never gave the Mavi Marmara a warning that they would resort to force if they didn't stop and immediately escalated the level of violence to lethal levels before boarding, then I would say that the people on the Mavi Marmara could justify the use of lethal force in defense against the IDF's unreasonable and excessive use of lethal force.

On goes the lies and deomonization...

Mavi Marmara being warned...

IDF - Navy Warns Flotilla (31 May 2010) - YouTube

And there is no proof that the IDF used lethal force, before they boarded, that is a patently false lie, simply to demonize Israel.

I suppose they could have went up on deck and put targets on their foreheads to assist the IDF's use of excessive and unreasonable use of lethal force.

More demonization.

I don't judge the use of lethal force execution style after someone has been subdued as reasonable. I judge it as murder.

More demonization.

 

[earth_as_one]

The committee looked at the evidence and came to these conclusions, not me. Based on your certainty, I conclude you must have access to evidence not considered by the committee. I suggest you forward that information to the UN Secretary General for their consideration, so they can rewrite their report.

 

[CDNBear]

I see you ignored how I proved your claims that the Mavi Marmara was not warned, to be lies.

I also noticed how you didn't bother to even defend you lie that the IDF began using lethal force, before the first boarding party hist the deck...

The committee looked at the evidence and came to these conclusions, not me. Based on your certainty, I conclude you must have access to evidence not considered by the committee. I suggest you forward that information to the UN Secretary General for their consideration, so they can rewrite their report.

I don't have any evidence they don't.

The one thing I have that you, and they, don't have, is objectivity.

But don't let that stop you from your demonization of Israel.

Every post you make, is just more proof I'm right.

 

[earth_as_one]

IDF - Navy Warns Flotilla (31 May 2010) - YouTube


The above video does not indicate that the IDF intended to escalate their response to lethal consequences if the Mavi Maramara refused to comply with their directions.

As a result, the UN committee concluded that killing two people on the deck of the Mavi Maramara before the boarding of armed commandos and the extrajudicial executions after the ship was subdued was "excessive and unreasonable".

 

[CDNBear]

The above video does not indicate that the IDF intended to escalate their response to lethal consequences if the Mavi Maramara refused to comply with their directions.

That's not why the IDF was forced to use deadly force.

Try some objectivity for a change.

Which is why the UN committee concluded that killing two people on the deck of the Mavi Maramara before the boarding of armed commandos and some extrajudicial executions after the ship was subdued was "excessive and unreasonable".

Stop messing with the timeline, lying by misinformation and trying to demonize Israel.

No on was shot on the deck, with anything other than paintball guns. Before the wannabe martyrs escalated the violence, disarmed the first boarding party and began shooting at IDF Troopers repelling from the helo's.

 

[AbtFet]

Sure.

Good Luck with that......considering they have no navy.
.

Huh? If their economy is impeded by Israel are Gazans justified in fighting back or not?

 

[CDNBear]

Huh? If their economy is impeded by Israel are Gazans justified in fighting back or not?

Sure.

Good Luck with that......considering they have no navy.

My point is that if you are a "neutral" and you attack the military forces of one side in a conflict while those forces are carrying out their completely legal duties..........

Don't come crying to the world when you get your head blown off.

The Turks asked for it.

In fact they begged for it.

There's that severe reading comprehension issue again.

 

[Goober]

The UN committee looked at the IDF's use of lethal force and determined that it was unreasonable and excessive.

From their report:
http://www.un.org/News/dh/infocus/middle_east/Gaza_Flotilla_Panel_Report.pdf

I judge the use of lethal force in response to lethal force as justified. Since the IDF never gave the Mavi Marmara a warning that they would resort to force if they didn't stop and immediately escalated the level of violence to lethal levels before boarding, then I would say that the people on the Mavi Marmara could justify the use of lethal force in defense against the IDF's unreasonable and excessive use of lethal force. I suppose they could have went up on deck and put targets on their foreheads to assist the IDF's use of excessive and unreasonable use of lethal force.

I don't judge the use of lethal force execution style after someone has been subdued as reasonable. I judge it as murder.

So the Bear got you again - How is it getting kicked in the nuts all the time. Tiresome i would say - Now say you are sorry for being a person that makes wild and bogus claims. Really EAO - I thought better of you - After all I am your Best Buzzard. I have the Patience of a Vulture is the translation as i am sure you would not comprehend it.

 

[earth_as_one]

That's not why the IDF was forced to use deadly force.

Try some objectivity for a change.

Stop messing with the timeline, lying by misinformation and trying to demonize Israel.

No on was shot on the deck, with anything other than paintball guns. Before the wannabe martyrs escalated the violence, disarmed the first boarding party and began shooting at IDF Troopers repelling from the helo's.

You obviously know something the committee doesn't because here is the timeline:

At 4.32 a.m., Israeli forces launched the attack without prior warning when
several speedboats drew alongside the Mavi Marmara and IDF personnel commenced an
attempt to board the vessel.63 The speedboats were shortly followed by combat
helicopters. IDF personnel began firing on the Mavi Marmara from both the speedboats
and helicopters before boarding had commenced.64 This included the use of live fire
(including automatic and semi-automatic weapon fire) as well as stun and smoke
grenades, paintball guns and rubber bullets.65 Two passengers were killed by shots from
the helicopters before the first soldiers had boarded the vessel.66
​

Quote:

34. As a consequence nine passengers were killed. Turkish autopsy reports
concluded that five of the deceased were shot in the head at close range.72 The Turkish
Commission describes those killed as follows:
- Furkan Doğan received five gunshot wounds in the back of his head, nose, left leg, left ankle
and in the back, all from close range. A citizen of the United States, Mr. Doğan was a 19-
year-old high school student with ambitions of becoming a medical doctor. Mr. Doğan’s
motionless, wounded body was kicked and shot upon, execution-style by two Israeli soldiers.
​

You obviously know more about this incident than the UN committee. You really should contact the UN Secretary General and share what you know, because somehow they came to the erroneous conclusion that the IDF started killing people before the boarding of armed commandos. (That would be their timeline, not mine) You also must be an expert in forensic sciences in order to disagree with the coroner's report that concluded the IDF continued killing people after they were subdued. (That would be a coroner's determination, not mine)

 

[Goober]

Huh? If their economy is impeded by Israel are Gazans justified in fighting back or not?

And why is their economy impeded - HHMM - Pregnant Pause - Now I am thinking real hard like - Oh yes - Hamas keeps on attacking Israel. Shxt happens when you attack.

 

[lone wolf]

As if the blockade wasn't warning enough.....

 

[Just the Facts]

The committee looked at the evidence and came to these conclusions, not me. Based on your certainty, I conclude you must have access to evidence not considered by the committee. I suggest you forward that information to the UN Secretary General for their consideration, so they can rewrite their report.

No need, the U.N. secretary General already knows the report is political bs. The truth will come out in time, it always does, just as with the Goldstone report.

 

[CDNBear]

At 4.32 a.m., Israeli forces launched the attack without prior warning.

Patently false. As I have already proven.

Everything following that complete fabrication, is now suspect.

This included the use of live fire(including automatic and semi-automatic weapon fire)

This is based solely on anecdotal testimony and not supported by video and forensic documentation.

The rest of your quote, is simple emotional anecdote.
​

You obviously know more about this incident than the UN committee.

Again, the only thing I have more of than you and the UNHRC, is objectivity.

 

[AbtFet]

And why is their economy impeded - HHMM - Pregnant Pause - Now I am thinking real hard like - Oh yes - Hamas keeps on attacking Israel. Shxt happens when you attack.

Heartbreaking Palestinian Girl |

 

[CDNBear]

Heartbreaking Palestinian Girl |

Then someone should get Hamas to stop, and stop other violent factions operating in Gaza.