Tories To Waste Billons On New Fighter Jets

Downhome_Woman

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2008
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As Burt Lancaster said in Go Tell the Spartans, "Military Intelligence is an Oxymoron". It is the law of nature that what usually rises to the top, in the military, political, corporate and bureaucratic worlds, is pond scum. To get ahead in any of those worlds requires professional ass kissing.

I realize you have an emotional investment in the military but so do I. Only difference is that they are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. My dad was in WWII. He was an emotionally locked up, prone to violent outbursts, authoritarian Catholic who was incapable of expressing his feelings in any other than negative ways. He was a product of that war, which explains one of the reasons why I am diametrically opposed to war for any reason. I won't get into all the other reasons that I consider war stupid. The military should only be used for self defense. A warrior's life should be dedicated to the protection of women, children and the elderly. As long as Harpo or other leader insists on using our military for any other purpose, I will remain unapologetically critical.

I attempted to answer this a couple of times throughout the day and reconsidered. Not that I had reconsidered my beliefs, mind you, I just didn't want to answer back in anger.

Yes - with a husband who had 37 years in the military - close to 30 with me, and also wit my military experience, I DO have an 'emotional investment' as you put it, with our country's military. But does it blind me to the foibles of politics and bureaucracy? No - I'm not the village idiot and I'm not some unquestioning engenue who takes everything at face value.

Look - I feel bad for you. your father came back from WW2 scarred - but it sounds as if he was scarred before he went. You want to blame all his issues on WW2? Please it was obviously more complex than that. so,(among other reasons but let's face it - he is the primary one) because of your father you are 'diametrically opposed to war for any reason'. and yet later on in your post you claim that the "warrior's life should be dedicated to the protection of women, children and the elderly'. Well, isn't that what your father and thousands like him did? Protect and rescue the women, the children and the elderly? And yet you apparently would have rather Canada - and no doubt every country that opposed the Axis countries - stay out of it and let whatever happens happen. Please explain.
now, as far as Afghanistan? I'm not blind to the fact that other governments in the world - and yes, ours as well, aren't always concerned with the citizens of Afghanistan, but you know what? big deal! I have a husband who spent a lot of time there, attended Jurgas, went to hospitals, say the schools and saw the childrenAll those cute kids you see - you know the 6 and 8 year olds? they're probably about 3 - 4 years older. It's the lack of decent food that keeps them tiny and cute.
And well, you don't see a lot of women because well - you know ....they're women, and the girls? They want an education, and they want to feel safe when they go to study. Our military - not just the NGOs who usually stay in the cities, by the way - give them a chance to do that. They help pave roads that make it difficult for the Taliban to plant ieds - they kill Afghanis as well, don't forget - or do you care? And they actually intend to kill Afghanis - it keeps them fearful and in line ...but maybe that's ok with you as well.
Oh -0 the whole 'support the opium trade by not destroying the poppy field' thing? you can't just rip a family's livelihood away - as bad as it is. If you want them to do right, then you have to give them another option.
which brings me to our homeless. I do feel for them but you know what? I spent 6 months in Egypt and I saw kids - kids! who worked for themselves. I saw these kids trying - every day - they were fierce! Not feral, but full of energy. it was a disgrace that their government did nothing for them. i would think that with the drive these kids had,m to give them support would have given them the moon - they could have done anything. I saw kids i Portugal that were the same. There was definately a poverty of possession, but I saw people that tried.
And here? Sorry - where we have poverty and drug abuse - it's horrible but guess what, however bad it is? Our people have so many more options and chances than any kid, any woman in Afghanistan does.
I know that you believe in volunteerism and it's something that I've admired about you but I would suggest this. You know and understand the poverty and the issues surrounding poverty ion Canada.You also criticize our efforts in countries like Afghanistan. I would suggest that you volunteer with an NGO in Afghanistan, so you can actually see what you are criticizing. I 'm not suggesting this with the thought that it will change your mind, rather I offer the suggestion with the idea that it will give dimension to what you now believe. You could indeed come back with the same mindset, but at least your ideas would be fed by reality rather than supposition.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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www.cynicsunlimited.com
How far north?

So we have regular patrols over our entire land mass. Already nuclear subs of Russia, USA, UK, France, India and China may be traveling under the polar ice. Problem is, if you can't monitor them, you don't have sovereignty over your land. Fighter jets don't monitor under the ice I believe. In this sense they are no good to Canada right now.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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So we have regular patrols over our entire land mass. Already nuclear subs of Russia, USA, UK, France, India and China may be traveling under the polar ice. Problem is, if you can't monitor them, you don't have sovereignty over your land. Fighter jets don't monitor under the ice I believe. In this sense they are no good to Canada right now.
Fighter jets aren't supposed to monitor under ice. That's why we have Aurora - and before that, Argus. Ever heard of the Innu Rangers?

Polar ice isn't Canadian ice. That ends about 450k short of the Pole.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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If we weren't convinced of our inate superiority and the lack of humanity of those we are instructed to hate, there would be no wars.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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And is it not heartless to leave tens of thousands of mentally challenged people out on the streets of our cities to be preyed upon by drug dealers? to leave them homeless and hopeless while we spend billions on protecting poppy crops? Someone's priorities are askew.

and I remember when those mentally handicapped people were housed in clean well looked after hospitals
for the mentally ill, with lots of trained care, and there was nothing but complaining and criticizm
that they shouldn't be locked up in hospitals, or care homes, it was cruel, can't win for losing.

If we weren't convinced of our inate superiority and the lack of humanity of those we are instructed to hate, there would be no wars.

yup, the majority of us feel the same, but it is not reality, won't happen, there has been wars since
time began, and it will continue, the power hungry will always strive for leadership all over the
world, and they will get it, then they will all battle each other for what the other has, while we
are content to live our lives without that kind of power hunger and possessiveness, and will never
be at the top leading a country, we will leave it to them, and they want it, wars will continue on
and on, nothing we can do about it. It's really just 'people' of a certain 'type' who obtain those
positions, and they always will, they they talk as though it is 'us' 'the people' who they are
protecting and fighting for, give me a break.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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yup, the majority of us feel the same, but it is not reality, won't happen, there has been wars since
time began, and it will continue, the power hungry will always strive for leadership all over the
world, and they will get it, then they will all battle each other for what the other has, while we
are content to live our lives without that kind of power hunger and possessiveness, and will never
be at the top leading a country, we will leave it to them, and they want it, wars will continue on
and on, nothing we can do about it. It's really just 'people' of a certain 'type' who obtain those
positions, and they always will, they they talk as though it is 'us' 'the people' who they are
protecting and fighting for, give me a break.

A brief conversation from this morning, as accurate as I can recall it!

I am standing watching two F-18s thunder overhead. A woman, whom I do not know, passes by with her friend. She smiles; I return her smile. She comments in what I believe is a European accent but I cannot quite place it.
"Noisy toys!'
"Expensive noisy toys," I reply.
"And, soon we'll be buying more expensive and noisier toys!' she answers.
"Mmmm" is all I can add.
"And, all we can do is smile when we pay our taxes for these machine few of us want, " she continues.
"And all this in a democracy!" I try to be clever.
All she does is laugh as she walks away.

I think our political (and religious) masters would do well to listen to the nuances behind the laughter of intelligent women!
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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And is it not heartless to leave tens of thousands of mentally challenged people out on the streets of our cities to be preyed upon by drug dealers? to leave them homeless and hopeless while we spend billions on protecting poppy crops?
Bad deflection. But that, too. But are they oppressed by some of the nastiest people on the planet, or are they simply oppressed by greed and politics? What about the ones that are on the streets by choice?
Our kids can go to school in piece without fear of having acid thrown in their faces.
Someone's priorities are askew.
And someone can't conceive that the same people who help people of other countries also help people in their own country. :roll:
 
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EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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I bet Khdafi still shudders....

As far as I know, of all the years the F-14 was in service, 4 Libyan MIGS shot down is the tally and one Iraqi helicopter. In Desert Storm where there was a little air to air combat, F-18's, F-15's (including Saudi F-15's), and F-16's were the ones that racked up kills. The F-14's punched holes in the sky for the most part. Fleet Defense was the purpose of the Tomcat. Modifications allowed the Tomcats to participate in air to ground attacks after Desert Storm but going forward the F-18's were better suited for that role as far as the USN was concerned.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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And is it not heartless to leave tens of thousands of mentally challenged people out on the streets of our cities to be preyed upon by drug dealers? to leave them homeless and hopeless while we spend billions on protecting poppy crops? Someone's priorities are askew.

Are we to just force people off the streets because they are eye-sores? As sad as it is, some people choose to live on the streets.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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As far as I know, of all the years the F-14 was in service, 4 Libyan MIGS shot down is the tally and one Iraqi helicopter. In Desert Storm where there was a little air to air combat, F-18's, F-15's (including Saudi F-15's), and F-16's were the ones that racked up kills. The F-14's punched holes in the sky for the most part. Fleet Defense was the purpose of the Tomcat. Modifications allowed the Tomcats to participate in air to ground attacks after Desert Storm but going forward the F-18's were better suited for that role as far as the USN was concerned.
Iran has plenty of combat experience with the F14. They are still in service and they are looking for parts apparently.

I thought it was the F117 that did the majority of clearing the airspace in Desert Storm?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Are we to just force people off the streets because they are eye-sores? As sad as it is, some people choose to live on the streets.
We are supposedly building roads and schools over in Astan but we can't build affordable homes for our disabled? Yes some people chose to live on the streets. I am not talking about them. I'm talking about all the mentally handicapped people that our governments have abandoned. I did not support institutions because they were open to abuse, but certainly in a country where we can afford to be at war and send billions in aid to other countries, we can afford a better system of looking after our own who are incapable of doing it themselves.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Not a Leopard, but a Abrams.
Actually the Leopard has better armor whereas the Abrams is built more for hitting and gitting. In the air there's not many places one can hit a target and then git to, so I'd rather put wings on the Leopard. lol

Gotta see that movie, though. Looks like it's got enough BS in it to get a few laughs.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
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I'm surprised no one has pointed out that a CF18, the aging plane that is being replaced, crashed yesterday in Alberta. Perhaps you naysayers want to wait until there are no more and then question why they weren't replaced earlier??