Titanic clash looms over proposed Northern Gateway pipeline

[captain morgan]

If nothing else, you are consistent and predictable.

Much like yourself Cliffy... I can set my watch to it.

I know what I have done and it hasn't been at the expense of our life support system, which, BTW, is not the economy.

.. But you'll grudgingly accept the use of infrastructure, healthcare etc... You must really grit your teeth when you are forced to drive on those pesky roads or have to buy groceries from a store that had the goods planted, harvested and delivered by a diesel truck.

If you want and choose to be blinded by the almighty dollar, that is your problem. There are far more important things in life, naming them would be meaningless to someone who cant see the forest for the dollar signs.

Funny.. The way I see it, you choose to close your eyes to your absolute reliance on the societal perks that are founded on the almighty dollar.

Interesting, non?

 

[JLM]

That is not a forest. It is a tree plantation. There are only about 5% of our old growth forests left. Mountain caribou are almost extinct along with many other species, red and blue listed species waiting for their final bow at the hands of the rapers and pillagers. Keep this crap up and we will be a victim of our our greed and stupidity. We don't need all this crap. We need quality of life not quantity.

Free Energy | Dr. Peter Lindemann's Website

You're half right, Cliff! Maybe 3/4, but we have to survive in situations influenced by the majority or we will die. I know about the staggering things like health care costs caused largely by people not living right, but we can only do so much about it. We are in a highly technical age, which I'm partly for, for the benefits and we should take advantage of those. We should concentrate more on righting one wrong at a time, not correct the whole world. First on my list would be stemming the greed of the corporate rich and second would be getting people to be their own man/woman and say f**k the Joneses!

 

[mentalfloss]

Funny.. The way I see it, you choose to close your eyes to your absolute reliance on the societal perks that are founded on the almighty dollar.

Interesting, non?

The almighty dollar comes from a resource from the planet. You can think of these resources, like energon cubes if it makes it easier.

Interesting, non?

 

[captain morgan]

The almighty dollar comes from a resource from the planet. You can think of these resources, like energon cubes if it makes it easier.

Interesting, non?

Non, not interesting

 

[petros]

Did you look at the web site? It is way beyond solar and wind. Wood heat is what I used in the forest, not in town. It uses dead wood not live trees. Tesla's technology is being developed. There are a whole bunch of new tech coming up and would replace our dependency on oil if only the oil cartels would stop killing the people who are trying to bring it on line.

Cliffy....nobody is killing anybody over energy tech.

PS the dead fall you say you burn is the soil for the next generation of trees.

 

[JLM]

Cliffy....nobody is killing anybody over energy tech.

PS the dead fall you say you burn is the soil for the next generation of trees.

Absolutely but Cliff is just speeding up the process- wood ash is very good for the soil! :smile:

 

[petros]

Absolutely but Cliff is just speeding up the process- wood ash is very good for the soil! :smile:

Char is but ash not so much.

 

[mentalfloss]

Academics defend PM's promotion of oil pipeline

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government isn't overstepping its authority by aggressively promoting the Northern Gateway pipe-line and attacking the mega-project's opponents while it is before a quasi-judicial tribunal, says one of Canada's top authorities on governance and political power.

"This is not just an Alberta project. It goes to the very heart of the country's energy policy," said Donald Savoie, who holds the Canada Research Chair in Public Administration and Governance at the University of Moncton.

"So I think the prime minister has every right to speak out and speak of its importance - what it means for Western Canada, but also what it means for all of Canada," said the author of Power: Where Is It? and Governing from the Centre: The Concentration of Power in Canadian Politics.

He was responding to criticism from interim Liberal leader Bob Rae, several academics and various opponents of the Northern Gateway project that is now being considered by a National Energy Board panel, a body established by federal legislation.

They say attacks by Harper and Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver on "radical" project opponents, and declarations that construction of the oilsands pipeline is in the national interest, raise questions about the independence of the Calgary-based NEB.

"The fix is in with this government. How can any Canadian trust that the Enbridge review process will be conducted fairly and independently with Harper breathing down the review panel's neck?" asked Chief Larry Nooski of Nadleh Whut'en First Nation, a member of the Yinka Dene Alliance, in a statement issued Wednesday.

Savoie said it's up to the three NEB panelists to ensure the integrity of their process. "It'll be incumbent on those people who sit on the tribunal to make the right call," he said of the panelists now hearing testimony in B.C. "If any of these people have any integrity, they'll call it the way they want."

He pointed to the late Pierre Elliott Trudeau's well-known public position when the then-prime minister asked the Supreme Court of Canada to rule in 1981 on legalities surrounding the amendment of the Canadian Constitution.

"Do you think for a moment that the prime minister of the day didn't voice his views? In fact, he asked the court to rush it along," Savoie said.

"To suggest that the prime minister should be mute on such an important file, I disagree fundamentally."

Harper and Oliver got another vote of confidence from an expert in administrative law.

The government's assault on environmentalists opposed to Northern Gateway "may be politically motivated, but does not in itself undermine the NEB process," said Lorne Sos-sin, dean of Osgoode Hall Law School at York University.

"It is arguable that the government, by making clear the pipeline is in the national interest, is seeking to influence the outcome," Sossin said in an email interview.

"That said, the government has a responsibility to indicate its position on matters of public policy - which this clearly is - as long as it does so in the con-text of respecting the NEB, its independence and its process."

Academics defend PM's promotion of oil pipeline
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[mentalfloss]

Liberals to Harper: Pipe down, let Northern Gateway process run its course

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper risks insulting ordinary British Columbians and Albertans by labelling opponents of the Northern Gateway pipeline as "radicals" being manipulated by foreign interests, Liberal interim leader Bob Rae said Tuesday.

"I think there are a lot of people who are quite sincere, who are concerned about balance, concerned about the appropriateness of one route versus another, who have perfectly legitimate concerns," Rae told Postmedia News on Tuesday. "I'm sure Peter Lougheed would be surprised at being described in that way."

The former Alberta premier last year said he was opposed to Trans-Canada's Keystone XL pipeline project to the U.S. Gulf Coast, described by Harper as a "no-brainer." Lougheed opposed the project, put on hold by the Obama administration, because he believes more unrefined bitumen should be processed in Canada to create more local jobs.

While the Conservatives have never suggested Lougheed is a radical, Rae said other ordinary British Columbians and Albertans have likely been offended by the campaign against Northern Gateway critics. "I don't think it helps the debate if you label everybody who disagrees with you as some kind of foreign agent," Rae said.

The Harper government is championing the $5.5-billion Northern Gateway project, saying it is in the national interest for Canada to open up Asian markets for Alberta bitumen in the wake of the Keystone XL setback.

But Rae said Tuesday that recent comments by Harper and Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver in favour of the proposed pipeline between Alberta and the B.C. coast for shipment by tanker to Asia show disrespect for the independence of the Calgary-based National Energy Board, which began hearings Tuesday in northern B.C.

"I think it is inappropriate for a minister or a prime minister to interfere and intervene and frankly to intimidate an environmental process as it would be to interfere or intervene in a court case," Rae told reporters at a news conference to announce that rookie Quebec MP Lise St-Denis has jumped from the New Democratic Party to the Liberals.

The Harper government, according to Rae, doesn't understand the limits of its authority and "does not understand the rule of law. It does not respect due process."

Rae also said environmental groups are effectively being threatened with loss of their organization's charitable status.

University of Ottawa law professor Carissima Mathen said Rae is wrong to draw a direct comparison between courts and administrative tribunals like the NEB, but also that Harper and Oliver may have gone too far in labelling environmentalists as "radicals" with an anti-Canada agenda.

"I wouldn't go so far as to characterize this as a threat to the rule of law, but the government should be more circumspect in how it participates in these hearings, and the public discourse surrounding them."

Rae said at the news conference that major Canadian firms like Enbridge have never had difficulty lobbying to advance their interests in Ottawa. "And other groups do that as well. But once the environmental process happens, the prime minister should keep quiet, Mr. Oliver should keep quiet, and should respect the process."

He said the government's high-pressure tactics to promote the Northern Gateway project are "part and parcel" of the government's attitude toward independent government agencies, noting that Immigration Minister Jason Kenney "intimidates the immigration appeal process by challenging decisions that have been made."

Echoing comments last week from NDP MP Nathan Cullen, he warned that the government's declarations threaten to taint the NEB's panel decision on the environmental and economic ramifications of the project. "This is a process that has to be respected, and if it loses its integrity then it losses its credibility, and the results of the hearing will not be accepted by people," he said.

"And you want a process that has integrity. You want a process that is respected by people, and with everybody who feels they've had a fair hearing."

Liberals to Harper: Pipe down, let Northern Gateway process run its course

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[Cliffy]

Divide and conquer. Make city folk think country folk are against progress. Make them the enemy because they want to deprive city folk of the right to destroy the planet. Yup. Harper is a poster boy for freedom and democracy. Let us all kneel and pray to the great god Oil.

 

[captain morgan]

NEW POLL SHOWS STRONG B.C. SUPPORT FOR GATEWAY - Northern Gateway

And....

Intervenor confusion in Northern Gateway hearings

"What exactly does a woman from Santos, Brazil, know or care about the Northern Gateway proposed pipeline project? It turns out, nothing at all.Even though Ines Gudic is listed to give an oral presentation to the panel reviewing the proposed Enbridge pipeline from Alberta to Kitimat, she says she knows nothing about it and never signed up to speak.

"I don't know what you are talking about," said the 53-year-old woman on Tuesday.

"I have never heard of this pipeline and I did not apply to speak in Canada," she said, in broken English.

That's strange. On the federal government's National Energy Board website, Gudic is one of a whopping 4,522 registrants who apparently applied online to make an oral application. Her name, mailing address, email and phone number are included on the website."

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[mentalfloss]

NEW POLL SHOWS STRONG B.C. SUPPORT FOR GATEWAY - Northern Gateway

48% is strong?

Oh, apparently it is, according to northerngateway.ca. :roll:

 

[captain morgan]

48% is strong?

And growing.

Oh, apparently it is, according to northerngateway.ca.

It's an article on the internet, dummy.. It must be true.:roll::roll:

 

[mentalfloss]

It's an article on the internet, dummy.. It must be true.:roll::roll:

I guess that's why you posted it. :roll::roll::roll:

 

[Cliffy]

Since the majority of BC residents live in cities, I would imagine many of them are thinking with their pocket books. You will naturally see that most opponents are rural people and aboriginals peoples. But in BC many city dwellers are also environmentally aware, so I would hope that the majority of BCers are opposed. Of course anybody who is invested in dirty oil would say anything to discredit and demonize legitimate opposition to their rape and pillage mentality.

 

[Tonington]

Since the majority of BC residents live in cities, I would imagine many of them are thinking with their pocket books. You will naturally see that most opponents are rural people and aboriginals peoples. But in BC many city dwellers are also environmentally aware, so I would hope that the majority of BCers are opposed. Of course anybody who is invested in dirty oil would say anything to discredit and demonize legitimate opposition to their rape and pillage mentality.

Actually, support was highest among BC's Northern residents, who also reported more familiarity with the project. 55% of the poll respondents either did not have much familiarity with the project, or had none at all.

 

[Cliffy]

Actually, support was highest among BC's Northern residents, who also reported more familiarity with the project. 55% of the poll respondents either did not have much familiarity with the project, or had none at all.

Yes, well, if a giant mammoth was about to take a mammoth dump in your back yard, you would be concerned enough to find all you can to try and avoid it.

 

[Tonington]

Yes, well, if a giant mammoth was about to take a mammoth dump in your back yard, you would be concerned enough to find all you can to try and avoid it.

Yes, yes I would.

 

[Mowich]

I do enjoy the idea that US environmental groups are paying huge amounts of money to have their say on what we do.

"One of those registered interveners is a group called Forest Ethics. They’re the hardcore, San Francisco-based environmentalists that pressured Chiquita bananas to boycott Canadian oil sands oil. The group says it plans to argue that the pipeline, which could ship more than half-a-million barrels of Canadian oil a day to a port in Kitimat, B.C., “is not in the national interest.” Read that again: Activists from San Francisco, California, U.S.A., want to convince our government that a significant energy project is not in our national interest. Since when did Canadians choose to let foreign groups make those kinds of decisions for us?


Yet, in the campaign against Northern Gateway, a horde of foreign and foreign-backed groups are teaming up to try to tell the government we elected that Canada shouldn’t go ahead with this project. They’ll pretend to speak for Canadians. They sometimes even claim to be Canadian. In reality, they use money from powerful foreign interests to sustain their campaigns against our oil sands and projects, like Northern Gateway, that help us develop that important resource. These groups don’t answer to us—they answer to their rich, foreign paymasters.


The Ecojustice Canada Society is one group fighting oil sands development. It has a Canadian name, but has actually relied on more than a quarter-million dollars from the multi-billion-dollar U.S.-based Hewlett family trust to fund its fights. And between 2003 and 2009 the Pembina Environmental Foundation cashed cheques worth more than $2.8 million from backers outside Canada to oppose development of Canadian oil.


It’s true that the West Coast Environmental Law Research Foundation represents the west coast: the U.S. west coast. Its campaign against oil tankers in B.C. waters is backed by nearly $100,000 in grants from the Wilburforce Foundation in Seattle. It also gets paid by the New York-based Rockefeller Brothers Fund to fight to “prevent the development of a pipeline and tanker port” in British Columbia, according to U.S. tax returns. That Rockefeller money comes from a vast family fortune made in oil production. Prospering from energy resources is apparently just fine if the Rockefellers are doing it, but their fund is using the power that wealth brings to keep Canada’s energy prosperity down."


More at:
The Northern Gateway Pipeline is a Canadian Decision | Kathryn Marshall

Where money is god and you have an accountant at the helm, you can expect that those in opposition to this project will be demonized. I said it before, Harper is a dangerous man because he is an ideologue, he worships the money god and he will stop art nothing to please his puppet masters. If the money that will be spent on this project alone were used to develop alternative technology, we wouldn't need this god damn pipeline. This is just another nail in our grandchildren's coffin.

Geez Cliff..........the old 'dangerous man' schtick is getting a bit old. Do you really think that a Liberal PM would do any less than Mr Harper is doing to make sure that our economy continues to grow whether through the development of the Northern Gateway project or any other resource that will help fill our coffers?

I have reservations about the possibilities of spills or collisions of tankers..........but I also have reservations about the future of our economy should we not develop the NGP. The fact is that in a resource rich country such as ours, we have little option but to develop them and find markets that will buy our product in order to keep sustaining the social programs that millions of Canadians rely upon.

 

[Cliffy]

Itis also old school thinking that says we have to rape our environment to make a living. Why are we shipping raw logs? Why would we ship raw oil? We are losing more jobs with this mentality than gaining. We are becoming a third world country with the vast majority of jobs being minimum wage. This pipeline in nothing more than quick profits for long term loss. Politicians can only think in 4 year terms. We have been talking about manufacturing and value added for 50 years but all our politicians can come up with is to ship off our raw resources. It is stupid and selfish to destroy our grandchildren's environment, let alone our own. There are a ton of ways Canada can make money to sustain our social programs, but short term thinking is not going to get us very far.