The witness to Jesus

MHz

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Yes, that would probably be best.
Sorry what was that? I can't hear you ........ hello ........ Houston we have a problem........... Once I added in your (forbidden) chat parameters the whole page turned a one solid shade of white. It's like you were swallowed up by a whale of a fib

MHz, you are wearing everybody out with your incessant quoting from the Bible.

So, you can stop there, yourself.
You must be applying for the co-pilot position, God knows you would never make navigator in your present condition, I mean look at you, all hot and bothered on finding Scripture in a thread with this title, wonders never cease apparently.
The witness to Jesus
 

Cliffy

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Sorry what was that? I can't hear you ........ hello ........ Houston we have a problem........... Once I added in your (forbidden) chat parameters the whole page turned a one solid shade of white. It's like you were swallowed up by a whale of a fib


You must be applying for the co-pilot position, God knows you would never make navigator in your present condition, I mean look at you, all hot and bothered on finding Scripture in a thread with this title, wonders never cease apparently.
The witness to Jesus
Allan Watts once said,"the fastest way to get rid of a bible salesman was to say you are Catholic, so, of course, you don't read the bible." Perhaps, things have changed since then, I don't know, but your continuous bible quoting doesn't usually make sense even to those who do read the bible. Your interpretation of said book seems to make sense only to you.
 

gerryh

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Allan Watts once said,"the fastest way to get rid of a bible salesman was to say you are Catholic, so, of course, you don't read the bible." Perhaps, things have changed since then, I don't know, but your continuous bible quoting doesn't usually make sense even to those who do read the bible. Your interpretation of said book seems to make sense only to you.


Yes, things have changed since then, and your observations concerning mhz concur with my own.
 

MHz

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If I held the same views as you two I would have left the church long ago, I thought that was a view was as solid as it gets.

Do you think any of the attendees were chucking and muttering to themselves when this was said at a funeral. Verses would not seem to be something a believer would shed away from, let alone not be able to understand, ............ right off the bat.


As saddened as I am about missing the last 5 days of Mom’s life I am even more saddened that I wasn’t around for at least the last 5 full years and all the years she missed in seeing Xxxxxx grow up. It will be a relief when those same obstacles are removed so I can have some quality time with all my remaining family members.

As religious as Mom was I’m sure Jesus was as close to her as He could possibly get considering the current restrictions.

I’m also sure she will be as important to God as Job is.

Job:14:12: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job:14:13: O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Job:14:14: If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job:14:15: Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Ec:12:5: ............... because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
Ec:12:6: Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ec:12:7: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2Co:5:6: Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co:5:7: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Co:5:8: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I would hate to think everybody gets lots on the 4th or 5th sentence of every document they read. That isn't the real goal, it is understanding what you read.

Try coming up with something original also, I already thanked God that we were different, what is the point of cliffy saying Allan Watts statement is proof I don't read the Bible, what verse is he named in?
 

DaSleeper

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Allan Watts once said,"the fastest way to get rid of a bible salesman was to say you are Catholic, so, of course, you don't read the bible." Perhaps, things have changed since then, I don't know, but your continuous bible quoting doesn't usually make sense even to those who do read the bible. Your interpretation of said book seems to make sense only to you.
I have a couple of relatives that are "reborn".....I privately call them "retreads".
When they first "see the light" they quote the bible constantly, then after five or six years they return to normal and their religion becomes a private thing like the rest of us, it is not "worn on their sleeve" and they drop the holier than thou attitude (what used to be called in french "mangeux de ballustre")
Now we can have a conversation without the constant bible verse quote unless it is the subject of conversation.
 

MHz

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I'm not sure cliffy or others are capable of leaving their opinions about religious beliefs on the religious channels, or in cliffy's place visiting every thread devoted to religion gets his person appearance just so every body can be 'updated' to his worldly standards.

The is no such thing as 'reborn'. you have to be in the loop as much as the Apostles and OT Prophets were, the earliest that happens is 0.035 seconds after the last sinner hits the dust.
 

GreenFish66

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Read a Bumper sticker once...Just After Some Ol'(der)Lady almost hit me on my bike...
Sticker Said.." Jesus Loves You ..But Everyone Else thinks your an A-Hole."
(No.I didn't flip the driver the bird, Like I so wanted to .(
Way back, in the back, at the bottom of my primitive mind ))
.I got up ..laughed , Waved and Continued Hastily on my way
Right then ..Right There.On my way.That day ..I Prayed ..!
All Bless.
God Bless..
All .Hail ..Big Bro ...J.C...
Forgive me For my sins .!..Please don't let that ol'(der) Lady hit me this time....and please make her give me back my bike ..

(?..Ahhhha..I know ...Booo...BdJk....;):))

Peace.. :;):)
 
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eanassir

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Ali and Jesus
Imam Ali and Jesus Christ have similarity concerning the people enthusiastic about each one of them.

I said to one of these enthusiastic people:
Suppose Ali is alive now in this room, will he see the men sitting in the next room or in another house? Will he hear what words they utter to each other?
Therefore, now at the present time: each of Jesus and Ali will not hear or see every man and see all people everywhere, so that they may keep them safe or grant them their needs.
It is God Almighty that sees and hears and knows what every man speaks, or hides within himself and He knows their needs and requests to grant them all that.

One of my friends has a similar idea:
Has Ali (and likewise Jesus) two eyes or more? He will see what is before his eyes, but will he see what is behind him, or in the next house.
Has Imam Ali (and likewise Jesus Christ and others) two ears or more? Will he be able to hear everyone speaking any word: if it had been so, this would have been noise and confusions.
While it is only God Almighty that hears and sees and knows about all people and give them their requests.

==========================================================
Ali, Jesus (and Bar Yohaya)

Before the European discovered America, they did not know about Red Indians, neither did Red Indians know about the European (Christians) and their Christ, nor did they know about Ali of Muslims.

Moreover, Chinese in the remote parts of China do not know (till now maybe) about either of Jesus or Ali; but all people everywhere know about the Creator and Most Gracious.

So why do they glorify such men as Jesus and Ali and others, while these themselves did not agree that people glorify them in any way!

As God said in the Quran 112: 4
وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ

The explanation:
("And none [of creatures: neither the Christ nor anyone else] is equivalent to Him [in managing the universe.]")

quran-ayat.co


there are many different views of the teachings
of religion any religion.

The witness to Mohammed
The pagan idolaters of Mohammed's people admired Abu-Jahl the adversary of Mohammed, while the believers followed Mohammed the apostle of God.

Therefore the idolaters clung to Abu Jahl who was ignorant, and did not rely on any instructions from God; while Mohammed devoted himself to God alone and was on a clear evidence from his Lord.

So God revealed some ayat about this; one of such ayat is the aya 11: 17
أَفَمَن كَانَ عَلَى بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّهِ وَيَتْلُوهُ شَاهِدٌ مِّنْهُ وَمِن قَبْلِهِ كِتَابُ مُوسَى إَمَامًا وَرَحْمَةً أُوْلَئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِهِ مِنَ الأَحْزَابِ فَالنَّارُ مَوْعِدُهُ فَلاَ تَكُ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّنْهُ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ

The explanation:
([Do you, people, unbelieve Mohammed] who relies on a clear evidence from his Lord!?

And [the Mahdi as] a witness [to his prophethood] out of his [nation] will follow after him;

and [another witness was] before him: the book of Moses was a guide and a mercy [to the Children of Israel];

such [of the people of the Bible will] believe therein [: in the Quran and other heavenly scriptures, in the future at the time of the Mahdi: the Paraclite];

but whosoever of the [Meccans and their] confederates unbelieves in the [Quran], the Fire will [in the afterlife] be His appointed [abode.]

So be not in doubt [O Mohammed about the Quran being revealed to you];

for the [Quran] is the truth from your Lord,

but most of people believe not [because of their ignorance of the truth and their stubbornness.])

http://www.quran-ayat.com/shabaha/11.htm#17
 

darkbeaver

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The is no such thing as 'reborn'. you have to be in the loop as much as the Apostles and OT Prophets were, the earliest that happens is 0.035 seconds after the last sinner hits the dust.

When you grasp a bit of the ancient pre christian schools of philosophy you begin to understand the power just a little differently. Simply put there are two states that concern the worthy words of the various books those are energy and matter. Incarnation is the birth of the spirit into the matter of mankind. This happens to each of us or you would not be animated (alive). That spirit is what is called the soul. The soul is used to the company of God the one. Incarnation of a soul into matter is hell for souls, a veritable pit of writhing fire, an endurance of the flames of temptation in the carnal body, an odious and terrifying task that must be completed if the soul is to be reborn a full angel and to win heaven eternal. Reincarnation is like summer school, something you must do to completion if you are to successfully elevated to the next level of awareness. Apparently you can stay in the material world if you consistently fail the cut, only when you remember your origin are you free of the hell of material life. Hell for the spirit is to be held in matter (body) while remembering the origin through all the trial and tribulations of the quickened state. It is said that Jesus was born in a manger. This is because he was food for animals (mankind). All the precursor enlightening ones came as divine food for animals (empty matter) weather they were Egyptian Greek Babylonian. Sin is simply giving in to the temptations of the carnal material body, this thwarts the spirits elevation to greater awareness. Throw away your holy books, you're wasting your time searching in them for the divine methods of the spirit. They were rewritten long ago to make sure you don't find anything but tiny remnants of ancient wisdom. Your mouth says you believe but you're feet say you don't. When your feet and your mouth move together then maybe you're on the path instead of in the ditch with the rest of the soiled runoff. God in a church! Not ever pilgrim.
I grasp a bit, now I don't fear death as much as I fear life, it is not the death of the body (mater) (animal) that we are supposed to fear it is the entombment of the spirit (soul) (energy) in the material animal body that is worse than the death of the clay body which is only a training vessel for the soul. Despite my own greatly beautiful physical body and virulent male comportment which have afforded me great latitudes of hedonistic revelry this time around I have no hesitation whatever about lining up for another lump of meat, if I'm found wanting in the end and we'll simply do it over again because that little spark can't be killed by age or normal wear and tear. Eat drink and be merry.

PS No I am not a religious nut like the others in this thread.
 
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eanassir

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When you grasp a bit of the ancient pre christian schools of philosophy you begin to understand the power just a little differently. Simply put there are two states that concern the worthy words of the various books those are energy and matter. Incarnation is the birth of the spirit into the matter of mankind. This happens to each of us or you would not be animated (alive). That spirit is what is called the soul. The soul is used to the company of God the one. Incarnation of a soul into matter is hell for souls, a veritable pit of writhing fire, an endurance of the flames of temptation in the carnal body, an odious and terrifying task that must be completed if the soul is to be reborn a full angel and to win heaven eternal. Reincarnation is like summer school, something you must do to completion if you are to successfully elevated to the next level of awareness. Apparently you can stay in the material world if you consistently fail the cut, only when you remember your origin are you free of the hell of material life. Hell for the spirit is to be held in matter (body) while remembering the origin through all the trial and tribulations of the quickened state. It is said that Jesus was born in a manger. This is because he was food for animals (mankind). All the precursor enlightening ones came as divine food for animals (empty matter) weather they were Egyptian Greek Babylonian. Sin is simply giving in to the temptations of the carnal material body, this thwarts the spirits elevation to greater awareness. Throw away your holy books, you're wasting your time searching in them for the divine methods of the spirit. They were rewritten long ago to make sure you don't find anything but tiny remnants of ancient wisdom. Your mouth says you believe but you're feet say you don't. When your feet and your mouth move together then maybe you're on the path instead of in the ditch with the rest of the soiled runoff. God in a church! Not ever pilgrim.
I grasp a bit, now I don't fear death as much as I fear life, it is not the death of the body (mater) (animal) that we are supposed to fear it is the entombment of the spirit (soul) (energy) in the material animal body that is worse than the death of the clay body which is only a training vessel for the soul. Despite my own greatly beautiful physical body and virulent male comportment which have afforded me great latitudes of hedonistic revelry this time around I have no hesitation whatever about lining up for another lump of meat, if I'm found wanting in the end and we'll simply do it over again because that little spark can't be killed by age or normal wear and tear. Eat drink and be merry.

PS No I am not a religious nut like the others in this thread.

What is the proof for all these claims?

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MHz

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She has none, wishful thinking would seem to be hope for all those with no 'spiritual manual', even then there is only one that is the real deal. Almost humerous would be the fact that some reply would even have false Christians cringing that the 'truth' is so far from the mark.. lol
 

eanassir

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God's testimony is the greatest testimony

The people of Mecca came and said to the apostle of God:

"Mohammed, hasn't God found anyone better than you to send him as an apostle (messenger) to us? We find none to confirm and believe you: we have even asked Jews and Christians about you, and they said: you are not mentioned in their books."

So, God revealed this aya 6: 19

قُلْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَادةً قُلِ اللّهِ شَهِيدٌ بِيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَأُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنُ لأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَشْهَدُونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللّهِ آلِهَةً أُخْرَى قُل لاَّ أَشْهَدُ قُلْ إِنَّمَا هُوَ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنَّنِي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا
تُشْرِكُونَ

The explanation:
( Say: "What thing bears a most serious witness [: words of God or words of people? For God knows better than people about everything]"
Say: "God is a Witness between me and you [that He has sent me to you, and His words [: the Quran, testify that for my behalf];

and this Quran has been revealed to me to warn you therewith [of God's punishment if you do not believe and abandon the idolatry];

and [the Mahdi] who reaches [his age of maturity will also bear witness that I am sent to you by God.]

[and anyone reaches his adutlhood is to be warned with the Quran.]

Is it so that you give witness that there are other gods besides God!?" Say: "I do not give such a witness, and indeed I am clear of all that you associate [with God.]")
 
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eanassir

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The Mahdi :) the Paraclite or Elia of the Last Days)

The Mahdi gives testimony to Mohammed the apostle of God

The Mahdi will be given the knowledge of the heavenly books: the Quran and the Bible.

The Mahdi will be the witness to the apostlehood of Mohammed and that God sent Mohammed as mercy and grace to all mankind and genie-kind, as had God sent before: Moses and Jesus.

This is in the Quran 13: 43
وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَسْتَ مُرْسَلاً قُلْ كَفَى بِاللّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِندَهُ عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ

The explanation:
(Those who disbelieve say [to you, Mohammed]: "You are not sent [by God.]"

Say: "God suffices as a Witness between me and you [and the Quran is the word of God is a witness to me],


as does he [the Mahdi] who possess [true] knowledge of the Scripture [: the Torah, the Psalms, the Gospel and the Quran; also give testimony that I am sent by God].")


quran-ayat.co
 

In Between Man

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Jesus is only a man and a son of man, but not God or son of God, and testified to his apostlehood and prophethood and that he was not crucified.

Fact: The life of Jesus Christ was FIRST recorded by eyewitness testimony in the gospel shortly after Christ's death.

Fact: Your religion came 700 years AFTER Christianity. And Christianity was STARTED by Jesus!

Your evil religion is attempting to usurp the good name and reputation of Jesus Christ when the truth about Jesus was recorded at least 700 years before Islam even breathed air!

You have said some horrible, horrible things eanassir. It's horrible what you have said about Jesus. I hope God forgives you.

Jesus Christ WAS the son of God!

Jesus Christ WAS NOT a prophet for the god Allah!

Jesus Christ WAS crucified!
Even secular records, which again pre-date your religion, record the historical crucifixion of Christ.

The fact that you originally posted this on Easter, which acknowledges Christ crucifixion, is a radical move.

The equivalent would be if during Ramadan I publicly took a piss on a picture depicting the image of Mohammad!
 

eanassir

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The equivalent would be if during Ramadan I publicly took a piss on a picture depicting the image of ...!

I respect Jesus as do I respect Moses, Mohammed and all God's prophets. They are righteous human beings to whom God revealed His instructions; not more than this and Jesus is not an exception: he is like the apostles before him and like Mohammed and the Mehdi.

Moreover, what you said concerning what you intend to do next Ramadan:

who said God will give you respite till then? He may send the angel of death upon you at any time to seeze your soul, then you will discover is Jesus pleased with you as you think or will he disown you and your claims.
 

MHz

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I respect Jesus as do I respect Moses, Mohammed and all God's prophets.
Moses was a Prophet destined from the time he was put into the basket. His calling was much later than 30 years of age if he died at the age of 120 . The plagues would have been when he was in his 70's.
Jesus was far different from that, He was leaping for joy while still in the womb, so was one other baby that was ever born, John the Baptist. From all the Bible those two men have been the most important that have ever drawn a breath.

Lu.7:28
For I say unto you,
Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:
but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Since that is a quote from Jesus it cannot be reduced in meaning. That would carry down through the other Prophets as well (in that John was called to duty by God at about the age of 30) God must consider what he did in those much fewer years as being more important to the overall reading of the Christian Bible.

Anybody called after John was chosen by Jesus with Him clearly be the one in command.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Fact: The life of Jesus Christ was FIRST recorded by eyewitness testimony in the gospel shortly after Christ's death.
Nope, biblical scholarship is pretty clear on this. The Gospels are not eyewitness testimony, nor were they written by anyone who even met Jesus. The earliest one, Mark's, is dated at around 70 CE, the other three are dated within the next two or three decades. They were not written by Jesus' disciples, nor were the books of Peter written by Peter, and six of the Pauline letters were not written by Paul, who never met Jesus either. A substantial fraction of the New Testament is forgery. I suggest you look up the works of Dr. Bart Ehrman for popular accounts of the results of modern biblical scholarship. You'll never make your case based on provably false claims.
 

gerryh

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Nope, biblical scholarship is pretty clear on this. The Gospels are not eyewitness testimony, nor were they written by anyone who even met Jesus. The earliest one, Mark's, is dated at around 70 CE, the other three are dated within the next two or three decades. They were not written by Jesus' disciples, nor were the books of Peter written by Peter, and six of the Pauline letters were not written by Paul, who never met Jesus either. A substantial fraction of the New Testament is forgery. I suggest you look up the works of Dr. Bart Ehrman for popular accounts of the results of modern biblical scholarship. You'll never make your case based on provably false claims.


Yes, go read Ehrman for a reiteration of Liberal scholarly OPINION, not fact. More BS promoted as fact by another non believer.