The Sad, Sad State of Canadian Masculinity

[YukonJack]

"No Canadian heroes?
Rick Hansen
Terry Fox
firefighters"

You forgot to mention the one-legged runner, who actually DID complete an Atlantic-to-Pacific run TWICE: Steve Fonyo.

Until he gets the far better deserved recognition than Terry Fox, I will refuse to call Terry Fox a hero.

 

[karrie]

"No Canadian heroes?
Rick Hansen
Terry Fox
firefighters"

You forgot to mention the one-legged runner, who actually DID complete an Atlantic-to-Pacific run TWICE: Steve Fonyo.

Until he gets the far better deserved recognition than Terry Fox, I will refuse to call Terry Fox a hero.

I'm sure Fonyo would appreciate you turning your nose up at the man who inspired him to do it. That makes tons of sense.

 

[JLM]

"No Canadian heroes?
Rick Hansen
Terry Fox
firefighters"

You forgot to mention the one-legged runner, who actually DID complete an Atlantic-to-Pacific run TWICE: Steve Fonyo.

Until he gets the far better deserved recognition than Terry Fox, I will refuse to call Terry Fox a hero.

Twice??????????????????? am I getting Alzheimers for real? Yep, he's been sadly under rated- people tend to do that when a person falls from grace- a little hypocritical but that's lotS of people! More of a hero than Terry Fox- I don't think so- it's my contention that what Terry did quite possibly killed him- he may have over taxed his immune system while still in a weakened state. I'm not sure if what Fonyo did was partly to fill his own ego - I just don't know, but I'm sure Terry did what he did for purely unselfish reasons, to help others. WHY COMPARE THE TWO MEN?

 

[#juan]

"No Canadian heroes?
Rick Hansen
Terry Fox
firefighters"

You forgot to mention the one-legged runner, who actually DID complete an Atlantic-to-Pacific run TWICE: Steve Fonyo.

Until he gets the far better deserved recognition than Terry Fox, I will refuse to call Terry Fox a hero.

What's this "better deserved" nonsense? Terry Fox ran until the cancer put him in a hospital bed where he died of the disease. I don't know how he could have done any better.

I don't take away from what Fonyo did but Fonyo was his own worst enemy. He was in trouble with his drinking almost continuously for several years. I think he spent a bit of time in jail.

​

What ever happened to Steve Fonyo?

September 16, 2004 Claim To Fame: At the risk of sounding like a bad pun (not intended), Steve Fonyo followed in the footsteps of Canadian hero Terry Fox, each having lost a leg to cancer and embarking on a trans-Canada marathon to raise funds for cancer research. Sadly, Fox never completed the journey and succumbed to cancer and passed on without completing his quest. His efforts were not in vain and he inspired the likes of Steve Fonyo and Rick Hansen to undertake quests of their own. Fonyo succeeded in crossing the country over 1984 and 1985, raising over 13 million for cancer research.
He retired from marathons after a follow-up run across Great Britain in 1986/87 and was awarded the Order of Canada in 1987.

Alas, his life took a turn for the tragic, becoming mired in alchohol and drug abuse he suffered from depression and was nearly suicidal.

In 1997 he was facing numerous criminal charges including firearms offenses, assault with a deadly weapon, fraud and theft.

He received an 18 month suspended sentence, cleaned up his life, going on to study aircraft maintenance and obtain his helicopter pilot's license.

He currenty lives in a cabin on Cultus Lake and is the head mechanic for a limousine company.

 

[L Gilbert]

"No Canadian heroes?
Rick Hansen
Terry Fox
firefighters"

You forgot to mention the one-legged runner, who actually DID complete an Atlantic-to-Pacific run TWICE: Steve Fonyo.

Until he gets the far better deserved recognition than Terry Fox, I will refuse to call Terry Fox a hero.

I didn't forget anyone specifically. That's why I added the "et al" at the bottom.

I guess you aren't familiar with what "et al" is .... it is Latin for "and others".

Either way, I think any guy who goes to extreme lengths to help others would be doing a manly (or heroic) thing.

 

[JLM]

I didn't forget anyone specifically. That's why I added the "et al" at the bottom.

I guess you aren't familiar with what "et al" is .... it is Latin for "and others".

Either way, I think any guy who goes to extreme lengths to help others would be doing a manly (or heroic) thing.

I would never speak ill of Steve Fonyo, he had his own set of demons, first the cancer, then the loss of his father who he was close to from cancer, he was an immigrant from a foreign country and then the bottle apparently got a hold of him for awhile. Everyone has their breaking point- the measure of a true hero is the ability to stick with a person through thick and thin. I think the run may have killed Fox, but it hasn't killed Fonyo.

 

[YukonJack]

Opinions expressed by kerrie, juan and JLM are well appreciated..

However, I still maintain that Steve Fonyo is no less a hero than Terry Fox. And until he gets the recognition that has been been denied him so far, I will refuse to hold Terry fox in any higher respect than Steve.

When you do your best, in fact far better than the person you are compared to, and you get nothing but scorn, disrespect and belittlement, forgive him if he takes a drink or two. Let his critics show a totally pure life style and/or let them walk any more than the supermarket from their home, never mind coast to coast in Canada. ONE ONE LEG!!

I travel across Canada lots of times. Just east of Thunder Bay there is a monument to Terry Fox. Is there a monument on either the Atlantic or Pacific shore for Steve Fonyo?

 

[karrie]

Yukon, while I get what you're saying, and bringing Fonyo up for much deserved kudos is good, disregarding heroes unless all the heroes you like are also given their dues, would mean that no heroes are recognized.

 

[#juan]

Opinions expressed by kerrie, juan and JLM are well appreciated..

However, I still maintain that Steve Fonyo is no less a hero than Terry Fox. And until he gets the recognition that has been been denied him so far, I will refuse to hold Terry fox in any higher respect than Steve.

When you do your best, in fact far better than the person you are compared to, and you get nothing but scorn, disrespect and belittlement, forgive him if he takes a drink or two. Let his critics show a totally pure life style and/or let them walk any more than the supermarket from their home, never mind coast to coast in Canada. ONE ONE LEG!!

I travel across Canada lots of times. Just east of Thunder Bay there is a monument to Terry Fox. Is there a monument on either the Atlantic or Pacific shore for Steve Fonyo?

To be completely honest, I thought Fonyo was a bit of a drip. I don't deny that what he did deserved a lot of credit and he did raise money to for cancer research but he never seemed to me to have the same stature or class as Terry Fox. Terry Fox runs are held around the world every year and continue to raise money to fight the disease that killed him.
As someone said, Fonyo had his own demons and the bottle was not his friend but he seems to have gotten his life together now. I wish him well.

 

[wulfie68]

Mark Steyn quoting another blogger in his article:

Whenever I write about this issue, I get a lot of emails from guys scoffing, “Oh, right, Steyn. Like you’d be taking a bullet. You’d be pissing your little girlie panties,” etc. Well, maybe I would. But as the Toronto blogger Kathy Shaidle put it:
“When we say ‘we don’t know what we’d do under the same circumstances,’ we make cowardice the default position.”

To me thats an insulting generalization to make. When we come into a "fight or flight" situation we fall back on instincts and training. Most of us aren't trained to deal with a large man wielding a knife like Vince Li or someone carrying a gun like Marc Lepine . Society teaches us "do what they want and it increases the odds no one will get hurt". Thats from almost every cop and crime prevention seminar/course/announcement/program you want to name. It goes even farther for some of us: the only emergency training I have is in dealing with industrial accidents and first aid where we're trained that the first step in dealing with those situations is ALWAYS to fall back and assess the situation because you don't help anyone by making yourself another victim in need of rescue (and to emphasize that, some of my employers showed videos of mistakes professional rescuers/firefighters/paramedics made due to hasty/improper actions from "tunnel vision" which in turn made them casualties instead of rescuers).

The truth is Marc Lepine was in numerous ways, an exception to the rules, because he was batsh*t insane: he didn't want anything but to kill people. Who knew that though?

Vince Li, I haven't seen much evidence to say how fast he killed his victim and if the kid is dead before you leave your seat, what do you accomplish by confronting him, that fleeing the scene and letting the police handle it, doesn't? My understanding was it occured at night, some hours into a long trip: who is watching other passengers that closely? Most people I know try to get some sleep, read a book or possibly talk to someone close to you; something to pass time and try to respect the privacy of other travelers. Reaction times are going to be slowed in that circumstance.

I respect people who do dangerous jobs or risk their lives to save others. I have nothing but contempt for those who endanger themselves needlessly or think that others should. The survivors have to come to terms for themselves as to whether or not they could have made a difference by acting: I'm not going to pass judgement from my armchair, safely removed by time and distance.

 

[L Gilbert]

I'd have thought it'd go without saying that it would de dependant on whether the issue was noticed by anyone or not, whether anyone had their senses about them at the time, had the time to do anything if they judged it worthwhile to do anything. But then, that's just me, I guess. But then again, I am trained not to panic, to assess the situation in extreme conditions. My wife is the one with fight training, I am trained in fire suppression and HD mechanics but I still think I would react if I noticed something lethal going on. Plane passengers still sound like they have more gumption than bus passengers.

 

[YukonJack]

"To be completely honest, I thought Fonyo was a bit of a drip. I don't deny that what he did deserved a lot of credit and he did raise money to for cancer research but he never seemed to me to have the same stature or class as Terry Fox. Terry Fox runs are held around the world every year and continue to raise money to fight the disease that killed him.
As someone said, Fonyo had his own demons and the bottle was not his friend but he seems to have gotten his life together now. I wish him well."

So, tell me juan: was there a time in your life when YOU weren't a drip? Were you always as perfect as you are now, and as qualified to pass judgement on Steve Fonyo as you think you are now?

If you admit - as you do - that Fonyo deserves more credit, why not EVERY BIT AS MUCH and more than Terry Fox?

If Steve Fonyo had had the recognition that he deserved far more than Terry Fox, there would be Steve Fonyo runs all over the world in his honour. But in typical Canadian fashoin, someone with a name that is not quite kosher Anglo-Saxon can go under the bus.

If Steve Fonyo had had the recognition he justly deserved, he (probably) would have never hit the bottle. Conversely, there is no reason to think that Terry Fox would not have become an alcoholic, if he had been given the bum's rush like Steve Fonyo.

And, like you say, Steve got his life together, in spite all the crap he had to put up with. It is about time that all you Fox admirers come down to reality and admit that Fox is NOT GOD, and Steve Fonyo is no less of a hero than Terry Fox.

 

[JLM]

"When you do your best, in fact far better than the person you are compared to"- NOT QUITE SO FAST, I would dispute that on the fact Fox literally gave his life, ALSO and I have no way of knowing or even suspecting it, BUT there were those at the time who maintained Fonyo was sneaking rides - maybe a somewhat OPEN mind should be kept about this.

 

[L Gilbert]

Perhaps. Fonyo still did something beyond what a lot of others would do, so he's got my kudos.

 

[JLM]

Yukon, while I get what you're saying, and bringing Fonyo up for much deserved kudos is good, disregarding heroes unless all the heroes you like are also given their dues, would mean that no heroes are recognized.

Y.J. is just having a bad day, Karrie, he and I have been bickering since sunup. :lol::lol:

 

[JLM]

To be completely honest, I thought Fonyo was a bit of a drip. I don't deny that what he did deserved a lot of credit and he did raise money to for cancer research but he never seemed to me to have the same stature or class as Terry Fox. Terry Fox runs are held around the world every year and continue to raise money to fight the disease that killed him.
As someone said, Fonyo had his own demons and the bottle was not his friend but he seems to have gotten his life together now. I wish him well.

That's one of the problems with the world today, some people (shallow to say the least) don't accept people who aren't like Ward and June Cleaver- it's a fact of life and there's really no way to fight it & yet on the other hand they are drooling over the ilk of Brittany Spears.

 

[taxslave]

I'd have thought it'd go without saying that it would de dependant on whether the issue was noticed by anyone or not, whether anyone had their senses about them at the time, had the time to do anything if they judged it worthwhile to do anything. But then, that's just me, I guess. But then again, I am trained not to panic, to assess the situation in extreme conditions. My wife is the one with fight training, I am trained in fire suppression and HD mechanics but I still think I would react if I noticed something lethal going on. Plane passengers still sound like they have more gumption than bus passengers.

It is a tough call. Many people today are conditioned to not get involved and also fear being sued or at least tied up in court for years.
I too have a back ground as a HD mechanic as well as firefighting and first aid so I am conditioned to make sure the scene is safe before going in. There is no point in having a rescuer go down too as it just creates more problems to deal with. However part of the job is also making the scene safe. I know that I would attempt something because I am used to making those kind of calls. I also know that most people would have no idea of what to do because they have no training in dealing with emergency situations except as a TV viewer. Some times makes me wonder if perhaps some kind of mandatory military training might not be such a bad idea.

 

[Francis2004]

Can any one answer the first rule of First Aid ?

If you did not pass this question in our class ( every year ) you had an immediate fail..

All those who didn't answer I guess failed and those who did sarcastically didn't know the rule.. It's just common sense..

1. Assess and secure the area:

The first rule of emergency aid is DO NOT put yourself or others in danger- you cannot help someone if you become a casualty yourself. When approaching a casualty the first thing to do is use your eyes to assess what has happened and take a moment to think and calm yourself down. Check to see if there is still danger around (e.g. live electricity or oncoming traffic) and if there is a way to remove the danger before continuing. NEVER put yourself at risk.

 

[#juan]

"To be completely honest, I thought Fonyo was a bit of a drip. I don't deny that what he did deserved a lot of credit and he did raise money to for cancer research but he never seemed to me to have the same stature or class as Terry Fox. Terry Fox runs are held around the world every year and continue to raise money to fight the disease that killed him.
As someone said, Fonyo had his own demons and the bottle was not his friend but he seems to have gotten his life together now. I wish him well."

So, tell me juan: was there a time in your life when YOU weren't a drip? Were you always as perfect as you are now, and as qualified to pass judgement on Steve Fonyo as you think you are now?

If you admit - as you do - that Fonyo deserves more credit, why not EVERY BIT AS MUCH and more than Terry Fox?

If Steve Fonyo had had the recognition that he deserved far more than Terry Fox, there would be Steve Fonyo runs all over the world in his honour. But in typical Canadian fashoin, someone with a name that is not quite kosher Anglo-Saxon can go under the bus.

If Steve Fonyo had had the recognition he justly deserved, he (probably) would have never hit the bottle. Conversely, there is no reason to think that Terry Fox would not have become an alcoholic, if he had been given the bum's rush like Steve Fonyo.

And, like you say, Steve got his life together, in spite all the crap he had to put up with. It is about time that all you Fox admirers come down to reality and admit that Fox is NOT GOD, and Steve Fonyo is no less of a hero than Terry Fox.

YJ your posts are getting silly. The statement I made above was just my own honest assessment. After Terry Fox, Steve Fonyo came across as a bit dim. This is a discussion forum not a court of law. You can agree or not. It makes no difference to me.
Terry Fox was dead for three years before Steve Fonyo came along. It wasn't Terry Fox's fault that Fonyo didn't get the reccognition that he felt he deserves. The whole country watched Terry Fox from Newfoundland to Thunder Bay. The whole country was heartbroken to learn that Fox's cancer was back and Fox was dying. How could anyone follow that? I don't think anyone could.

 

[YukonJack]

"Yukon, while I get what you're saying, and bringing Fonyo up for much deserved kudos is good, disregarding heroes unless all the heroes you like are also given their dues, would mean that no heroes are recognized."

Could not disagree with you more, karrie.

All I am asking is that Steve Fonyo be given the same recognition and the kudoes that have been showered upon Terry Fox.

Can anyone explain to me why Fox is a hero and Fonyo is a bum?"