The Right to Torture Americans

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
1,826
52
48
by Jacob G. Hornberger

Conservatives are protesting a federal judge’s ruling that torture victim Jose Padilla’s civil lawsuit against former Justice Department attorney John Yoo be permitted to continue. The conservatives feel that Yoo, who authored some of the infamous torture memos for the Bush White House, should be immune from lawsuits from Americans who were tortured as a natural consequence of such memos.

Let’s sum up what conservatives (and neo-conservatives) are saying about the America in which we now live. They’re saying that the federal government now wields the power to torture Americans and that Americans had better get used to this new way of life. Any American who is tortured should forget about ever suing any federal official who either does the torturing or who authorizes or facilitates it.

At the same time, conservatives say that federal torturers should be immune from criminal liability for torturing Americans, no matter how many criminal laws against torture they violate.

The idea is that the federal torturers would become despondent and demoralized if criminal prosecutions were initiated against them. And how could we expect the torturers to continue torturing Americans if the torturers faced the prospect of criminal prosecution in the future?

Of course, the same rationale holds true for official investigations into the torture of Americans and others. If such investigations were to be conducted, then how could we count on the torturers to be ready and willing to torture in the future?

What Jose Padilla’s lawsuit is exposing is the harsh truth about the country in which we now live. Padilla is an American citizen. He was tried and convicted in a federal district court of a federal criminal offense, to wit: terrorism, and he is now serving time in a federal penitentiary for that crime. No one disputes that Padilla is a criminal.

But prior to the time that Padilla was convicted, federal officials incarcerated him in a military dungeon run by the Pentagon, where he was held for years and intentionally denied a speedy trial and due process of law. U.S. officials made it clear that if they wanted, they could keep Padilla incarcerated for the rest of his life without a trial.

During the time this American was incarcerated in that military dungeon, he was knowingly and deliberately tortured through isolation and sensory deprivation. Moreover, he was subject to being treated to the entire panoply of torture and sex-abuse techniques that the Pentagon and the CIA have imposed on people in their prison camps at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and elsewhere.

Padilla’s civil lawsuit is not just about him. It’s about what federal officials, including those in the Pentagon and the CIA, can now do to all Americans.

That’s a discomfort, not only for the American people, who are now subject to be treated in the same way that Padilla was treated, but also for those who wish to continue portraying the United States to the rest of the world as a paragon of freedom, morality, human rights, and due process of law.

Of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that when it comes to torture, liberal icon Barack Obama has turned out to be no different from conservative icon George W. Bush. They both utter the same anti-torture mantras (“We don’t torture” or “We won’t torture anymore”) while steadfastly insisting on civil and criminal immunity for federal torturers and steadfastly opposing official investigations into the federal government’s torture regime.

Was John Yoo simply delivering a good-faith legal opinion on torture or was he instead knowingly, intentionally, and deliberately participating in and facilitating an illegal torture regime through the issuance of bogus legal memos? Jose Padilla’s lawsuit, which will likely entail depositions under oath, might go a long way to answering that question, much to the chagrin of the defenders of torture.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
If another 9/11 could be prevented, I would do anything to get the information to stop it. Some may not understand that, but be thankful some do.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
First of all, information gained through torture is not good info......when a person is in the position that they would tell you anything to end their suffering.....the truth does not even enter the equation.

Secondly, torture is morally reprehensible, not only for what it does to the victims, but for what it does to the practitioners.....and I don't just mean the guy with the pliers (or the water-board).....I mean to the society that would allow such a practise.

Thirdly, one either applies the basic principles of their society, as laid out in the USA by the Constitution........or one does not. Their is no middle ground. The US Bill of Rights garauntees the individual's right NOT to incriminate themselves, the right to remain silent. This English common law ideal was born out of the Star Chamber torture and trial of the 17th Century.....the very reason for its existence is that it negates any benefit of torture.....

To say nothing of the ban in the Fifth Amendment on military tribunals for those not serving in the US military.

I'm a pretty right wing guy. But I know the US has wandered off the right path in some ways since 9-11......and I hope Obama will re-direct.......
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Erotic is using a feather. Kinky is using the whole chicken. Having sex with it is just plain sicko. BUt sheep seem to be acceptable to some.:roll::lol:
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,286
14,497
113
Low Earth Orbit
Ah yes. Torture. Poor critters should be able to sue Yoo too. Don't let these neo-fascists pull the wool over your eyes. Even if last time felt good.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
I think some of the most vocal opponents of torture were top military leaders in the U.S. They first of all realized that permitting torture would immediately negate any opponents responsibility to treat American POWs according the conventions of war. On top of that it inculcated all sense of an amoral character to the military, which is disastrous to morale, in an institution where honour is paramount.

Bush was an idiot. An AWOL Air Force Pilot who has no understanding of how much he undermined real American security with his compromises of principle. John Yoo was a sycophant and enabler. It's Bush and Cheney who should face the lawsuits.. and criminal prosecution.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
1,826
52
48
Ironic that the next `9/11`ad nauseum :roll:, the first kick in the ass in 2001, brought on themselves because of US cowardly actions preceding that date, will likely be a result of torture (and slaughter of innocents) since that memorable day.
It may take the leveling of a few US cities before our neighbours to the south get it in their thick heads, the good ole days of hitting the weak and running away , on foreign soil, are over.


If another 9/11 could be prevented, I would do anything to get the information to stop it. Some may not understand that, but be thankful some do.