THE RAPTURE, COULD BE COMING AROUND JUNE 25th

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Hi Praxius

I understand most of what you said, and to this I can agree.....
“Anyone who ever nails down a date, for the return of Christ, is a false prophet.”

That's not exactly what I was saying, as I wasn't relating to you trying to claim to be a prophet... I was relating to God himself and the Bible we're all "supposed" to follow and the contradictions within the Bible and "His Words."

None of the false prophets throughout history, ever said, that they were “Speculating”. Every time, they nailed down a date, and every time they were wrong.

Of course, we're all still here arn't we? And in the same mentality, if one was true, then the end of time would have already occured, and there wouldn't be anybody around left to call them a prophet.

I did nail down a date, I simply made an educated guess, and I clearly called it “Speculation”.

Well no matter if you claim it to be true or you're just guessing, they're all just guesses and speculations until they actually come true, regardless if you're sure of the date or not.... so to me it's no different then nailing down a date for us to follow or just throwing it out there.

Notice the end of my post........
Oh by the way, today is June 8, 2008, and if we aren’t raptured within the next 17 days or so, then we can put this post away, for another year.

So what are we supposed to do? Continually freak out every June 25th of every year for the rest of our lives until it happens? Doesn't sound very logical and is about as accurate as trial and error.

As with many of my above examples of people claiming to know when the world is going to end, I'll just throw this one on the pile, because I've got more important things to do in my life then to continually worry when some God is going to kill me, when they haven't made their pressence noticed to me in my entire life.... if I screwed up in my life or I did things God doesn't approve of and won't let me into his heaven, then he can suck a lemon (Among many other things) because He hasn't been around to tell me how to properly live, and if he expects me to take my fellow man for his word on what God said (Humans being flawed and influenced with their own perspectives from the get go, including the humans who wrote the Bible).... then he has no position to dictate to me if I lived a good or bad life.

If you don't get involved in something, then you have no say in what occurs.... and this relates to God as well.

But we must always be expecting the Lord to return for us at any minute, so that we will be Ready.
Matthew 24:42
"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

Nice to talk to you

no prob... but that above line just sounds like a fearmonger to keep followers in check, to be forever fearful that they're going to either be sent to hell or heaven at any given time in their lives, therefore they are always trying to live based on what they understand in the Bible, continually second guessing their actions, wondering if what they're doing is right or wrong and before they know it, they haven't lived their lives to the fullest in which we're supposed to do, and missed out on a lot of things, based on fear and misunderstanding with no clear answers given besides what another human dictates as their own understanding of what something means, which still isn't the true answer.

All because they have no idea when this rapture is going to occur, so they're always living day by day in fear and repression.... if they give up on the religion, then the Rapture can occur the very next day and thus, even though they followed their entire lives the way they understood they should, that day before it occured they gave up and therefore, they're going to hell.... or purgatory if you will. So they remain in their religion out of fear from the unknown.... to be believing in faith that there's a chance it just might actually happen.

If there is a God in existence, then one would imagine he would want us to experience everything we very well can in our limited lifetimes in which he created. To restrict our experiences of certain things that God created, would be an insult of his creation and thus we'd limit ourselves in our overall understanding of what is surrounding us and then we would never come close to understanding God and his plan overall.

And what kind of life are you living when all you do is pray for your sins, ask for God to forgive you for the bad things you did, to spend the majority of your life worshiping a god you never see or hear from? If I was a God, I sure as hell would throw some lightning bolts up some arses for people doing that to me..... I'd go and tell them to get off their asses and live a little.... heck in my view, that's why they were given a life in the first place.... not to worship and thank me for their life everyday until they die.... I don't need a cheerleading squad, and I imagine God doesn't need one either.

I see it this way: This is our Earth... our planet. We have taken ownership of the Planet and overall, we have accepted responsibility for what occurs on this planet, both good and bad. God has not come down in a long time to "Guide" us, or dictate to us how we should live. We have created the lives and conflicts we now currently have, not God..... everything that is in existence today in relation to our societies has been created by our own hands, not God's.... and if he's got some smart-ass plan to end it all, wipe us all off the planet and devide us up between heaven and hell or whathaveyou.... then he can still kiss my arse.

If we're going to all be destroyed, then it better be by our own hands and by our own consequences of our actions, not by some big arsehole who pisses off for a couple of melinia only to come back and decide enough is enough.... like he's sick of his little grade 6 science project or something that he forgot to keep in check with and went sour.

I don't need a God to tell me how to live my life, and I sure as hell don't need some God to destroy my way of life whenever he deems fit. I have lived my life to the best of my ability as I would expect from anybody else, and if my way of life isn't good enough for him, then he can goto hell himself for all I care.

Come and destroy my Earth will ya? Not on my watch.... Praxius vs. God..... IT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!!!
 
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Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
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Toronto


Yep, Bushinski is the AntiChrist
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
--------------------------------------------------


But we must always be expecting the Lord to return for us at any minute, so that we will be Ready.
Matthew 24:42
"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

I am still wondering when he will show up for the 'first time', I will believe it when I see it.
 

maple_berry

New Member
Jun 9, 2008
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bigape,

I believe you may be misunderstood about the rapture, from my studies, I do not believe there is a "Pre-tribulation Rapture" but rather a Post tribulation Rapture.
Rev 6:9-11
...I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God...and white robes were given to everyone of them

Rev 7:9-14
After this I beheld & lo a great multitude which no man could number of all nations & kindreds & people & tongues...clothed w/white robes...and one of the elders answered...what are these which are arrayed in white robes & whence they came...these are they which came out of great tribulation & have washed their robes & made them white

This tells us there is no pre tribulation rapture for if there were who is left to witness to the unsaved that could lead to a great multitude which no man could number & if you study history, people who believe in God have been tried, tested & murdered in all sorts of wicked ways so what sets us apart from the people of those days that God would spare us in enduring the same wickedness that people past have suffered for the name of God at the hands of the wicked & those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture: how many of those will lose their salvation when they realize there is no such thing & we must endure till the end & suffer as Christians past: look at how many Christians were killed when the Romans were at power & how many Antiochus slaughtered
 

maple_berry

New Member
Jun 9, 2008
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And if you look at the Sixth Seal: Rev 6:12-16
...he had opened the sixth seal & lo there was a great earthquake & the sun became black as sackcloth of hair & the moon became as blood...and the heaven departed as a scroll...and every mountain & island were moved out of their places & the kings of the earth...hid themselves in the dens & in the rocks...& said to the mountains & rocks "fall on us & hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne & from the wrath of the Lamb

Compare this w/what happens at the resurrection of the 2 witnesses & at the 6th vial of wrath & the 6th trumpet:
Rev Ch 11:12-
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them: "come up hither"...& the same hour was there a great earthquake...
Rev 16:16:12-
And the 6th angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates (Rev 9:14...loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates)...behold I come as a thief...& there were voices & thunders & lightnings & there was a great earthquake such as was not since men were upon the earth...and every island fled away & the mountains were not found

I think it is during these events under the 6th seal when the 6th trumpet & 6th vial of wrath are poured out that Christ returns (the Rapture takes place) & every one will see him coming
 

bigape

New Member
May 28, 2008
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Hi maple berry

I see your point, when you read........

Revelation 7:13-14
V.13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
V.14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


These are a great number of people, that are going to be saved, during the tribulation period. (You might think, that this proves, that their can’t be a pre-tribulation rapture.)

But, the way to look at the rapture, is that it will be for the Church only. Only the Body of Christ, will be taken to heaven before the tribulation period, but during the tribulation, we have Jews, that will be saved.

Now as you so wisely pointed out in V.9....
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"


Therefore, you might think, that the people that will be saved during the tribulation, can’t all be Jews, because they are made up of all races. Well just as it was before Jesus came to earth, and before the Church, people of all races were becoming Jews, by accepting the God of the Jews.(Jewish proselytes) E.G. Acts 8:27

So what we will have, is a time, just like before Jesus and the Holy Spirit came to earth, where people who want to get right with God, will have to become a Jew. And during the tribulation period this will cost them their lives.

Now, God knows, that it would not be right, to give those people who rejected the free gift of salvation in Jesus(who witnessed the rapture of the Church), another opportunity to get saved. This would be like, giving people in Hell, a second chance. Therefore we have.......2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

V.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
V.12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

(Please study this passage in context, and you will see what I mean.)

Sure enough, people will be saved during the tribulation period. But only those who had never heard the Gospel message before. All of these Christ rejecting sinners around today, that reject the Good News of Jesus Christ, will be given a “strong delusion”, and they will continue to reject God’s free gift, even after everything that they will have seen.


Please feel free, to respond.
 

bigape

New Member
May 28, 2008
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Hi again maple berry

I see, that you are a “mid-tribulation believer”.

Nice to know you.

It is clear, that you have been studying your Bible.
--------------------------------------------------
My question would be, where is the Church, during the three years and six months, that these preachers will be preaching. (It seems to be silent!)

I know that if I was still around, I would be preaching the Gospel, just as loud as I could.

The Last time, that “the Church” is mentioned(before the last chapter), is in.....Revelation 3:22
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”


And in the next verse, we have the Rapture.....Revelation 4:1
“After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

--------------------------------------------------

This is what the rapture will be. God calling the Church to heaven.


This discussion, has been good for me.

Hope to hear from you again!
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
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Regina, SK
Please feel free, to respond.
Well, okay, probably for the last time in this thread. If you'd put it in the Christian Discussion thread I'd have left it alone, I have no interest in those discussions, but you put it in Spirituality and Philosophy as if it had some universal relevance (it doesn't), so I consider it, and you, fair game.

Does it not occur to any of you Christian fundamentalists that the historical context in which the Bible was written might have some relevance to interpreting it? There's a bigger picture that you're not seeing. Revelation has nothing to do with modern times, it's fairly typical apocalyptic literature that's about the political situation that existed at the time it was written, you can find the same kind of stuff in Daniel and in lots of extra-biblical writings, as I've tried to explain in several other threads. It was a time of heavy persecution of Christians by the Romans, and that's what it's about, exhorting the faithful to keep the faith, God is with us, the bad guys will soon get their just desserts, all couched in symbols and metaphors the readers of the time would have understood but some of which have been lost to history, so it's incomprehensible to us. It does not predict our future, it has nothing to do with modern times, and it's dangerous and silly to think it does, because that can make it self-fulfilling. If you believe some kind of end of the world is imminent, as George Bush seems to believe for instance, and it's all been divinely ordained, you won't do anything to prevent it even if you can, and may in fact--again as George Bush seems to be doing--do things that might help make it happen.

Revelation is not a history of the end of the world, and I think it's dangerous, ignorant, and stupid, to think it is. It's about Roman persecution of Christians over a thousand years ago, and that's *all* it's about.
 
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talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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I am wondering if anyone REAL would claim the title.

I imagine many 'real' persons have tried to claim the title, at one time or another, but
they were probably taken away in straight jackets, or put in a cell to dry out. We don't
have to worry about a 'real real' one showing up any time soon, or even later, or even,
ever.
We are fine on our own, we have each other and our earth, and we know how to
survive, just like our animal friends.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
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Well bigape, let me ask you this: who cares?

Even if your god were real, so what? Why should I worship him? From the bible I know he is a blood thirsty maniac. I know his followers are by and large two faced scumbags that are responsible for countless calamities. I don't like him. He is a piece of **** I wouldn't piss on.

I should worship him so he won't visit violence on me? Send me to hell to burn for all eternity? Do you really think that is a reason to worship someone? I should love him so he won't hurt me? This seems reasonable to you - even possible? Is there no better choice for someone who is not a coward?

Or is it his promise of heaven? To live forever as though at the heel of Stalin in his greatest paranoid moment, ready to cast me into hell fire for the slightest infraction? Or is heaven not like that? Can I screw around get drunk and bugger anyone I want once I'm there? It's only here that god is such a lunatic? Don't you think, like all power mad lunatics, his expectations will just increase once he realizes we're dumb enough to fall for his ****? Now he will allow 100,000 into heaven but once there he will want to reduce it to 50,000, then 5000 then 100 then 10, etc. You really think heaven has gas chambers?

And why do I care? I am not a god. God should be off doing god things and I'll do human things.

If I buy an aquarium should I fill it with piranha and Japanese fighting fish? Sit back and watch the bloodshed, then blame the fish for their crimes? Maybe train one to tell them all to chill out; drop it in the bowl and watch it get torn to bits as it preaches to turn the other gill? Is that a loving pet owner? Why is it that god is worse than the worst pet owner? Couldn't he have made us peaceful and loving creatures? He gave us free will but we're not as violent as Tasmanian devils? Why did he pick our level of blood lust to stop at? why not make us a race of peace loving cows? Do I have to put vicious fish in the aquarium or am I just some kind of perverted lunatic? Why would I worship such a malicious and sadistic god? I would be insane to get anywhere near your god!

Lucky for me he is only a figment in your imagination.

I don't think your god is any better than Stalin or Hitler and I sure wouldn't worship either of them.

So I'll be waiting with a new bag of nails.
 
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scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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Well, okay, probably for the last time in this thread. If you'd put it in the Christian Discussion thread I'd have left it alone, I have no interest in those discussions, but you put it in Spirituality and Philosophy as if it had some universal relevance (it doesn't), so I consider it, and you, fair game.

Does it not occur to any of you Christian fundamentalists that the historical context in which the Bible was written might have some relevance to interpreting it? There's a bigger picture that you're not seeing. Revelation has nothing to do with modern times, it's fairly typical apocalyptic literature that's about the political situation that existed at the time it was written, you can find the same kind of stuff in Daniel and in lots of extra-biblical writings, as I've tried to explain in several other threads. It was a time of heavy persecution of Christians by the Romans, and that's what it's about, exhorting the faithful to keep the faith, God is with us, the bad guys will soon get their just desserts, all couched in symbols and metaphors the readers of the time would have understood but some of which have been lost to history, so it's incomprehensible to us. It does not predict our future, it has nothing to do with modern times, and it's dangerous and silly to think it does, because that can make it self-fulfilling. If you believe some kind of end of the world is imminent, as George Bush seems to believe for instance, and it's all been divinely ordained, you won't do anything to prevent it even if you can, and may in fact--again as George Bush seems to be doing--do things that might help make it happen.

Revelation is not a history of the end of the world, and I think it's dangerous, ignorant, and stupid, to think it is. It's about Roman persecution of Christians over a thousand years ago, and that's *all* it's about.
`Kudos to you Dex`. This is becoming a pita.
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:
 

maple_berry

New Member
Jun 9, 2008
3
0
1
Big ape,

I am not a mid-tribulation believer but a post-tribulation believer, we will be here to endure all of it. We will be tried & tested as no other Christians in times past has been
Matthew 24:21-22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be & except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake, those days shall be shortened
& during this evil time, many believers will become angry & turn away from God believing him to be responsible & because they had believed in a pre-tribulation rapture thinking that they would be spared from this evilness but we are no different from Christians past, we will suffer just as they suffered so don’t be fooled into believing in a pre-tribulation rapture or you may lose your faith when all this evil falls on the saints & the elect (those who have chosen Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior & do their best to live a righteous & Godly lifestyle)
Dan 12:1-3
…there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation…and at that time thy people (the Jews) shall be delivered, & every one that shall be found written in the book; and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life & some to shame & everlasting contempt; & they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament & they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever & ever
Dan 12:10
Many shall be purified & made white & tried but the wicked shall do wickedly & none of the wicked shall understand but the wise shall understand
Rev 13:7 & 10
And it was given unto him (anti-Christ) to make war w/the saints & to overcome them & power was given him over all kindreds & tongues & nations; …here is the patience & faith of the saints
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God & the faith of Jesus
This verse is in reference to those who will refuse the mark & refuse to worship the image of the beast & what will be done to them for their refusal (look at the prior verses)
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs & false prophets & they shall show great signs & wonders insomuch that if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect
Many believers will be deceived through the false prophet & the anti-Christ, Christians will probably be hiding out because of the terror & great evil that these wicked people will bring about & there will be few who will rise up w/the courage to preach the gospel (I think this is the main reason why the 144K Jews of the line of Jacob / Israel are sealed: to boldly preach the gospel w/out harm being done to them till the time be determined for them to die as their brethrens will have)
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened & the moon shall not give her light & the stars shall fall from heaven & the powers of the heavens shall be shaken & then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) in heaven
Rev 14:14
And I looked & behold a white cloud & upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Jesus Christ) having on his head a golden crown & in his hand a sharp sickle & another angel came out of the temple crying w/a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud “thrust in thy sickle & reap for the harvest of the earth is ripe & he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth & the earth was reaped
This is the rapture at the time of the 6th seal
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels w/a great sound of a trumpet & they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
If you look at Matthew 24:29-31 & compare that w/Rev 14:14 & the sounding of the 7th trumpet:
Rev 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven & there was seen in his temple the ark of his testaments & there were lightnings & voices & thunderings & an earthquake & great hail
& at the opening of the 6th seal:
Rev 6:12-16
...he had opened the sixth seal & lo there was a great earthquake & the sun became black as sackcloth of hair & the moon became as blood...and the heaven departed as a scroll...and every mountain & island were moved out of their places & the kings of the earth...hid themselves in the dens & in the rocks...& said to the mountains & rocks "fall on us & hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne & from the wrath of the Lamb

& at the pouring of the 7th vial:
Rev 16:17-18
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air & there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne saying “it is done” & there were voices & thunders & lightnings & there was a great earthquake such as was not since men were upon the earth
When the saints & elect are raptured at the 6th seal, they will be immediately clothed in white & joined w/Christ in the Marriage of the Lamb partaking in the marriage supper of the Lamb & return w/Christ to fight the battle of Armageddon
Rev 19:7-9
Let us be glad & rejoice & give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come & his wife (being the saints & elect) hath made herself ready & to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean & white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints…blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb
Rev 19:11
And I saw heaven opened & behold a white horse & he that sat upon him was called Faithful & True & in righteousness he does judge & make war
Rev 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses clothed in fine linen, white & clean
When we see Christ in the 6th Seal, he is coming for all his saints & elect ones where they shall partake in the marriage supper of the Lamb & in Rev 19 when we see Christ again, he has returned on a white horse for the Battle of Armageddon w/all his saints & elect ones clothed in fine white linen
In order to get right w/God, you don’t have to become a Jew, once you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior & change your lifestyle to one of righteousness you are a child of God & it does not matter if you are Jew or Gentile
These are my thoughts, hope it helps. Take care.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
I'm thinking about becoming religious, there's something missing in my life that the booze and drugs cannot replace. I like chickens.Will gods farm animals and vegetables be raptured up to heaven and if not what will christians eat when they get there?
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
212
63
In the bush near Sudbury
I'm thinking about becoming religious, there's something missing in my life that the booze and drugs cannot replace. I like chickens.Will gods farm animals and vegetables be raptured up to heaven and if not what will christians eat when they get there?

If you leave your earthly body behind ... eat? Do spirits eat? No sex parts either.... And they call it Heaven???? Get in tune with yourself and nature Beav.... You don't have to die to see the result.
 

Vereya

Council Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,003
54
48
Tula
Big ape,

I am not a mid-tribulation believer but a post-tribulation believer, we will be here to endure all of it. We will be tried & tested as no other Christians in times past has been

Hope you and your god both have fun :lol: