The Flotilla....IDF Actions Validated!

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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First of all, the nutjob was NOT A CHRISTIAN. He hadn't been in a church in over 15 years. He discounted any relationship with Christ or God. Try and get your facts straight.

In the manifesto, Breivik considers himself "a real European hero", "the saviour of Christianity" and "the greatest defender of cultural-conservatism in Europe since 1950". During interrogation, Breivik claimed membership in an "international Christian military order"[citation needed] that "fights" against "Islamic suppression".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

He's a "cultural christian", which is good enough to be considered a "christian".

The term thus expresses the faith-alone position in Christian soteriology which assumes that baptism and church service are not enough for somebody to be saved, but that subjective, personal faith is a requirement of true Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian


But hey guys, he's not really a christian because he doesn't go to church, lol. Oh, I also forgot: you don't have to go to church and be considered a christian if you're a "good person".


I have to say, this theatre from the defenders of Christianity is hilarious. One of their guys goes off the rocker (1 person), and all of a sudden they all go into religion-defense mode.

You think atheists, agnostics, or moderate muslims actually go through such denial because of their own extremists?

No, because they realize that the offenders were extremists.
 
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Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Which hardly makes Palestinians Nazis or Fascists.

If referencing a single Palestinian who was anti-Semitic and worked with the Nazis proves all Palestinians are Nazi Fascists and that they are responsible for the Holocaust rather than Europeans then referencing a single white person who was a nut case also proves all white people are nut cases.

Colpy, the nutcase who killed all those people in Oslo recently describes himself as Christian. Do you really know how devout Muslim nutcases are before you blame all Muslims for their actions? Does the fact that nearly all Muslims have never committed a terrorist act or violent crime make a difference to your perceptions that all Muslims are terrorists? I think its more likely that your perceptions have been influenced by manipulative Muslim demonizing propaganda. The reality is that most Muslims, like most Jews and Christians do not support acts of violence directed at innocent civilians.



Which Nazi Concentration camps were run by Palestinians? I thought German Nazis were involved in the Holocaust. It now appears that all blame and responsibility for the atrocities suffered by European Jews under the Nazis has now been shifted to Palestinians because a single Palestinian went to Nazi Germany looking for arms. I guess the Nuremberg trials prosecuted the wrong people. According to the latest pro-Israel propaganda, no Germans were involved in the Holocaust. It was only Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs who ran the Nazi death camps according to latest BS from revisionist Israeli apologists.

Do some research on the former Yugoslavia - Bosnians were lined up to go to the Russian Front and also run camps - So before you get your panties in a know - do some checking

Lastly - As i mentioned before you were not even aware of Arab/Jew murder and conflict prior to 47 - wow - really informed now aren't we.

Did I even imply the Palestinians we responsible for the Shoah - No - You just go off like usual, writing fantasy and adding you're own and well twisted slant when faced with facts.

Accurate Historical accounts really suck for your limited, poorly read and even less understood by yourself.

And you call yourself evenhanded. Wow - i would hate to see you being in any way biased - Oh yes - you are - mental lapse their.

I also posted links - did you even read them and check even farther - Probably not -
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I was responding to claims that Palestinians are Nazis and Fascists. Nazis were mostly Europeans. I doubt many of them were Arab, Muslim or Palestinian. Hamas is a religious/political/social movement that has little resemblance to Fascism. Facism is what happens when the growth of private commercial/military/industrial power grows to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state. That more describes the US than economically depressed Hamas ruled Gaza.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I was responding to claims that Palestinians are Nazis and Fascists. Nazis were mostly Europeans. I doubt many of them were Arab, Muslim or Palestinian. Hamas is a religious/political/social movement that has little resemblance to Fascism. Facism is what happens when the growth of private commercial/military/industrial power grows to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state. That more describes the US than economically depressed Hamas ruled Gaza.

No you were not - You were responding in part to my post on the Mufti - Now research it - You made a post that Arabs - Jews really had no conflict prior to 47 - Very odd year to pick - Oh yes, just before they declared Independence and against all odds kicked the living crap out of the Arabs - Why - When you have a large grouping of people - Arabs - stating that they will kill all, slaughter and murder - that is motivation - Much like Jews had in Concentration camps when they fought back against the Nazis.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Amazing how a subject can polarize people to such an extent that neither side can even begin to see that the other have just as much right to their opinion as they do. But for a subject to get this polarized, both sides have to ignore that information being used by the other. It is human nature to cherry pick info that reinforces their opinion while ignore those that don't. The truth lies somewhere between the two sides. Both are only half right.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Amazing how a subject can polarize people to such an extent that neither side can even begin to see that the other have just as much right to their opinion as they do. But for a subject to get this polarized, both sides have to ignore that information being used by the other. It is human nature to cherry pick info that reinforces their opinion while ignore those that don't. The truth lies somewhere between the two sides. Both are only half right.

Wrong - One side wants the extermination of all Jews - Now being against that ain't being half right - it is completely right.
 

Cliffy

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Wrong - One side wants the extermination of all Jews - Now being against that ain't being half right - it is completely right.
There are those who may have said such a thing on both sides, that does not mean that both sides or either side agrees with those statements. It is just as ludicrous to make that statement as those who blame all Muslims for terrorism as to blame all Christians for the Oslo murders. What I said about cherry picking info to support your point of view stands.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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There are those who may have said such a thing on both sides, that does not mean that both sides or either side agrees with those statements. It is just as ludicrous to make that statement as those who blame all Muslims for terrorism as to blame all Christians for the Oslo murders. What I said about cherry picking info to support your point of view stands.


Some Israeli's have indeed made such statements - But they are not in Govt - they do not control the military - They are a minority.
Next, I was not cherry picking - Hamas has made these statements - So my statement is not ludicrous, what is though is your belief that they would not do it given the chance. That is not only ludicrous on your part it is pure fantasy. But it does tie into your world wide belief in a Conspiracy.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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No you were not - You were responding in part to my post on the Mufti - Now research it - You made a post that Arabs - Jews really had no conflict prior to 47 - Very odd year to pick - Oh yes, just before they declared Independence and against all odds kicked the living crap out of the Arabs - Why - When you have a large grouping of people - Arabs - stating that they will kill all, slaughter and murder - that is motivation - Much like Jews had in Concentration camps when they fought back against the Nazis.

I am aware of growing hostility between resident Palestinians and Jewish refugees during the 1930's and 40's. The current ethnic cleansing war... as in the deliberate and forceful removal of people from their homes based on religion only began in earnest in 1947.

1947

Violent people slaughtered innocent civilians on both sides. But if you count bodies, most of the dead were Arab women and children. Not much has changed since then.

I am against removing people from their homes and seizing their property based on their level of Jewishness. That worked against Jews in Nazi Germany, unlike the way it works in the Zionist State of Israel.

I also noticed that the Zionist state has lots of walls, guard towers and razor wire, which intern large numbers of innocent civilians just like Nazi Germany. Today the descendants of people who survived concentration camps now run them.

Antisemitism was rampant throughout Europe during the 1930's and 40's. While this form of irrational fear and hate continues to exist in Europe, it has mostly been replaced by an irrational fear and hatred of Muslims.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I am aware of growing hostility between resident Palestinians and Jewish refugees during the 1930's and 40's. The current ethnic cleansing war... as in the deliberate and forceful removal of people from their homes based on religion only began in earnest in 1947.

1947

Violent people slaughtered innocent civilians on both sides. But if you count bodies, most of the dead were Arab women and children. Not much has changed since then.

I am against removing people from their homes and seizing their property based on their level of Jewishness. That worked against Jews in Nazi Germany, unlike the way it works in the Zionist State of Israel.

I also noticed that the Zionist state has lots of walls, guard towers and razor wire, which intern large numbers of innocent civilians just like Nazi Germany. Today the descendants of people who survived concentration camps now run them.

Antisemitism was rampant throughout Europe during the 1930's and 40's. While this form of irrational fear and hate continues to exist in Europe, it has mostly been replaced by an irrational fear and hatred of Muslims.

Very short cut & paste - Running a fever?
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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I suppose the Oslo neoCon extremist's Islam hating manifesto and the MSM's downplaying of the role Muslim demonizing propaganda touched a nerve.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Some Israeli's have indeed made such statements - But they are not in Govt - they do not control the military - They are a minority.
Next, I was not cherry picking - Hamas has made these statements - So my statement is not ludicrous, what is though is your belief that they would not do it given the chance. That is not only ludicrous on your part it is pure fantasy. But it does tie into your world wide belief in a Conspiracy.
Hamas has three separate arms. Even if all three arms think that, do you not suppose that 60 years or so of oppression would cause that sort of feeling? In this fight I refuse to take sides because both sides are wrong. Also, this problem is far too old for the participants to even remember why it even started. And there is far more going on here than meets the eye. This is not just about Israel and Palestine, Jews, Christians or Muslims. Much more is at stake but the waters are far too muddied to get a clear picture yet.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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....no one cheered, or celebrated in the streets

That's not entirely true, some posters on Islamist forums cheered and celebrated, before they realized it wasn't the work of a brother shaheed.

Palestinians have been oppressed since the area was conquered by Zionist Jewish refugees fleeing Europe 60 years ago.

60 years ago a Palestinain Arab would have socked you for calling him a Palestinian. They were South Syrians, and were seriously miffed that the UN was separating them from mother Syria.

How things change.

Absolutely none of this is relevant.
What is relevant right now is that Palestinians are living in Gaza and their horrible standard of living is directly attributed to the right-wing extremists in power in Israel.

Actually it's directly attributable to the over ten thousand rockets mortars and missiles that their brethren have been relentlessly firing at Israel. Not to mention snipers and incusions. Just ask Gilad Shalit about that.

I also noticed that the Zionist state has lots of walls, guard towers and razor wire, which intern large numbers of innocent civilians just like Nazi Germany. Today the descendants of people who survived concentration camps now run them.

lol you referring to the prisons were Palestinian militants are kept? The ones were they take courses at Israeli universities and have cell phones and facebook pages?

When's the last time Gilat Shalit updated his facebook page? What's his cell phone number?

Or are you talking about the defensive wall, the one designed to keep people out, not in? The one that was erected because Israel got tired of it's citizens being shot and blown up by Arab murderers coming into Israel from the disputed territories.
 
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earth_as_one

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I'm talking about the walls which have divided up the West Bank into a series of Warsaw Ghetto like enclaves and isolate Gaza from the rest of the world. Sure I agree some of the inmates are treated better than Jews were eventually treated in Nazi Germany.

A prison isn't defined by access to cell phones and education. Our prisons also allow education and in some cases cell phones. A prison is defined by walls and restricted movement and personal freedoms. You are confused about who are the prisoners and who are the prison guards. A clue about which side of the wall is which, is that on one side the people people have restricted rights and freedoms, while people on the other side have no such restrictions and man the guard towers and check points. When Palestinians take control of the walls, guard towers and checkpoints and restrict the freedoms and movement of Israelis, I'll complain about Israelis being interned in concentration camps.

Definitions of concentration camp
1) A place where large numbers of people, esp. political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution.
2) A situation characterized by crowding and extremely harsh conditions
3) A guarded compound for the summary confinement of political prisoners, racial or ethnic minorities, or other social outcasts, also called "internment camp".

I agree with you regarding Gilat Shalit. He is a prisoner and his treatment violates international law and fundamental human rights. His case is well known, unlike the nearly 6000 people including children, that Israel also detains without any due process for political/military reasons in violation of international law and fundamental human rights.

Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees
1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,935 Palestinians including 209 Child detainees (29 children under 16) are currently imprisoned by Israel for political/military reasons without any due process or being convicted of a crime... just like Gilat Shalit. (View Sources & More Information)

The Ottoman empire consisted of many provinces which later gained independence. Palestine's fate unlike the other provinces was determined by foreigners and immigrants. The Palestinian people (Jews/Muslims/Christians...) were never consulted. The immigrants and foreigners who violently seized control of this region, allowed Jewish Palestinians to remain in their homes. Most non-Jewish Palestinans were ethnic cleansed from Palestine, by a process God's chosen people describe as redeeming the land and most have become displaced non-citizens (aka nationless refugees). That redeeming process continues today and is the root cause of most of the region's problems.

The name Palestine to describe this former Ottoman province has been in use since at least @340 BC, when Aristotle wrote about Palestine in Meteorology in a reference to the Dead Sea: "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them.

The name is derived from "land of the Philistines", who lived in this region before the arrival of God's chosen people.

A "Palestinian" can mean a person who is born in the geographical area known prior to 1918 as "Palestine", or a former citizen of the British Mandate territory called Palestine, or an institution related to either of these. Using this definition, both Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews were called "Palestinians".

Before the establishment of the State of Israel, the meaning of the word "Palestinian" didn't discriminate on ethnic grounds, but rather referred to anything associated with the region. The local newspaper, founded in 1932 by Gershon Agron, was called The Palestine Post. In 1950, its name was changed to The Jerusalem Post.

In 1923, Pinhas Rutenberg founded the Palestine Electric Company, Ltd. (later to become the Israel Electric Corporation, Ltd.) There was a [Jewish] Palestine Symphony Orchestra, and in World War II, the British assembled a Jewish Brigade, to fight the Axis powers, that was known as the Palestine regiment.

Since the establishment of Israel, its citizens are called Israelis, while the term Palestinians usually refers to the Palestinian Arabs.
 
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Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I'm talking about the walls which have divided up the West Bank into a series of Warsaw Ghetto like enclaves and isolate Gaza from the rest of the world. Sure I agree some of the inmates are treated better than Jews were eventually treated in Nazi Germany.

A prison isn't defined by access to cell phones and education. Our prisons also allow education and in some cases cell phones. A prison is defined by walls and restricted movement and personal freedoms. You are confused about who are the prisoners and who are the prison guards. A clue about which side of the wall is which, is that on one side the people people have restricted rights and freedoms, while people on the other side have no such restrictions and man the guard towers and check points. When Palestinians take control of the walls, guard towers and checkpoints and restrict the freedoms and movement of Israelis, I'll complain about Israelis being interned in concentration camps.

Definitions of concentration camp
1) A place where large numbers of people, esp. political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution.
2) A situation characterized by crowding and extremely harsh conditions
3) A guarded compound for the summary confinement of political prisoners, racial or ethnic minorities, or other social outcasts, also called "internment camp".

I agree with you regarding Gilat Shalit. He is a prisoner and his treatment violates international law and fundamental human rights. His case is well known, unlike the nearly 6000 people including children, that Israel also detains without any due process for political/military reasons in violation of international law and fundamental human rights.

Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees
1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,935 Palestinians including 209 Child detainees (29 children under 16) are currently imprisoned by Israel for political/military reasons without any due process or being convicted of a crime... just like Gilat Shalit. (View Sources & More Information)

The Ottoman empire consisted of many provinces which later gained independence. Palestine's fate unlike the other provinces was determined by foreigners and immigrants. The Palestinian people (Jews/Muslims/Christians...) were never consulted. The immigrants and foreigners who violently seized control of this region, allowed Jewish Palestinians to remain in their homes. Most non-Jewish Palestinans were ethnic cleansed from Palestine, by a process God's chosen people describe as redeeming the land and most have become displaced non-citizens (aka nationless refugees). That redeeming process continues today and is the root cause of most of the region's problems.

The name Palestine to describe this former Ottoman province has been in use since at least @340 BC, when Aristotle wrote about Palestine in Meteorology in a reference to the Dead Sea: "Again if, as is fabled, there is a lake in Palestine, such that if you bind a man or beast and throw it in it floats and does not sink, this would bear out what we have said. They say that this lake is so bitter and salt that no fish live in it and that if you soak clothes in it and shake them it cleans them.

The name is derived from "land of the Philistines", who lived in this region before the arrival of God's chosen people.

A "Palestinian" can mean a person who is born in the geographical area known prior to 1918 as "Palestine", or a former citizen of the British Mandate territory called Palestine, or an institution related to either of these. Using this definition, both Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews were called "Palestinians".

Before the establishment of the State of Israel, the meaning of the word "Palestinian" didn't discriminate on ethnic grounds, but rather referred to anything associated with the region. The local newspaper, founded in 1932 by Gershon Agron, was called The Palestine Post. In 1950, its name was changed to The Jerusalem Post.

In 1923, Pinhas Rutenberg founded the Palestine Electric Company, Ltd. (later to become the Israel Electric Corporation, Ltd.) There was a [Jewish] Palestine Symphony Orchestra, and in World War II, the British assembled a Jewish Brigade, to fight the Axis powers, that was known as the Palestine regiment.

Since the establishment of Israel, its citizens are called Israelis, while the term Palestinians usually refers to the Palestinian Arabs.
I'm talking about the walls which have divided up the West Bank into a series of Warsaw Ghetto like enclaves and isolate Gaza from the rest of the world. Sure I agree some of the inmates are treated better than Jews were eventually treated in Nazi Germany.

Some minor differences I would say apply to your definition your claim that the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza are the same.
Warsaw-
Jews used as slave labor - worked to death
Provided food well below the amount needed to survive - Reality - death by starvation and susceptibility to disease.
Mass roundup of Jews - sent to death camps -
Just to name a few.

Some links

Warsaw Ghetto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was established in the Polish capital between October and November 15, 1940, in the territory of General Government of the German-occupied Poland, with over 400,000 Jews from the vicinity crammed into an area of 1.3 square miles (3.4 km2). From there, about 254,000 Ghetto residents were sent to Treblinka extermination camp during the two months of summer 1942.

Warsaw Ghetto

look at the photos and tell me that the Warsaw Ghetto is comparable to Gaza.

warsaw ghetto - Google Search
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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The initial treatment and conditions suffered by Jews under the Nazis isn't that different then what is experienced by Palestinians today. Over time, the Nazis treated their undesirables more and more cruelly. That path eventually led to extermination camps. Eventually the Nazis were defeated and the Jews and other groups who suffered Nazi oppression, injustice and cruelty were liberated.

In remains to be seen how far the Zionist State of Israel will take their oppression, injustice and cruelty against their undesirables. Each day seems to bring to light a new low and the end isn't in sight.

Part of the reason why the Nazis were able to get away with their atrocities is that not enough people opposed their cruelty in the beginning. People were blinded by irrational fear and hatred toward Jews and the other people the Nazis persecuted. Far too many people who realized what was going on were silent.

Its too late to prevent Nazi atrocities against Jews and other groups and these events are now historical. However Zionist cruelty, oppression and injustice against their version of undesirables are ongoing and increasing in intensity. Now is the time to speak against their oppression, injustice and cruelty. If we don't, then we are repeating the same mistakes which led to the Holocaust.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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The initial treatment and conditions suffered by Jews under the Nazis isn't that different then what is experienced by Palestinians today. Over time, their treatment and conditions grew increasingly severe. Eventually the Nazis were defeated and the Jews and other groups who suffered Nazi oppression, injustice and cruelty were liberated.

In remains to be seen how far the Zionist State of Israel will take their oppression, injustice and cruelty against their undesirables. Each day seems to bring to light a new low and the end isn't in sight.

Part of the reason why the Nazis were able to get away with their atrocities is that not enough people opposed their cruelty in the beginning. People were blinded by irrational fear and hatred toward Jews and the other people the Nazis persecuted. Far too many people who realized what was going on were silent.

Its too late to prevent Nazi atrocities against Jews and other groups and these events are now historical. However Zionist cruelty, oppression and injustice against their version of undesirables are ongoing and increasing in intensity. Now is the time to speak against their oppression, injustice and cruelty. If we don't, then we are repeating the same mistakes which led to the Holocaust.

They received the same initial treatment - Really - How many in Gaza have been forced into work factories, fed starvation rations and shot for not working hard enough?

Your post show more and more your hatred towards Jews.

Post the above as a letter to the editor with your name of course and see what replies you receive. Yes that would include hate mail as what you have posted is no more or less that hatred in my opinion.

Now run off and flag this as a bad post. Oh My.