The casual arming of the idiot cousins in the country directly south of Canada.

[Colpy]

Mujahideen ran the Soviets out of Afghanistan, mainly a result of the financial aid and arms the U.S gave them...... This wasn't beneficial to Bin Laden?
The funded him directly, or indirectly depending on what you believe, either way he was funded by the U.S .......

The organization bin Laden set up (MAK) brought in fighters from around the world to fight in Afghanistan, that was their reason for being.

That organization, and the contacts created through it, formed the foundation for bin Laden's terror network.

the contention has always been that the United States funded MAK, thus sowing the seeds of their own tragedy.

It is simply, and completely. untrue.

 

[CUBert]

That was never the contention.... U.S funded the Mujahedin and thus helped Osama! FACT!

Also , the MAK did use the United States as a destination for their funding

MAK established recruitment and fundraising offices in many Western countries, the United States being one of their main fund-raising destinations. The first offices in the United States were established within the Al Kifah Refugee Center in Brooklyn, and at the Islamic Center in Tucson, Arizona. On his fundraising tours Sheikh Abdullah Azzam visited the mosques of "Brooklyn, St. Louis, Kansas City, Seattle, Sacramento, Los Angeles, and San Diego - altogether there were 33 cities in America that opened branches of bin Laden and Azzam's organization, the Services Bureau, in order to support the jihad." [10]

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Mujahideen ran the Soviets out of Afghanistan, mainly a result of the financial aid and arms the U.S gave them...... This wasn't beneficial to Bin Laden?
The funded him directly, or indirectly depending on what you believe, either way he was funded by the U.S .......

Indeed. (but far too many prefer fantasy, myths and propaganda over the FACTS and TRUTH. ) The truths as the above just don't fit their fairy tales so they slide & live in denial.

What most do not understand on this thread is that there in nothing casual at all about why the United States is a well armed country. ;-)

don't underestimate the general understanding of the US MILITANT focus. and state. It is virtually ruled by the military complex . the mililtancy defines america now. The INTENTION of being a military focussed nation is not lost or misunderstood at all.

No there is NOTHING casual or accidental about it at all. It is intended , with motivation, deliberate means and opportunity .

How long this can last, given the US financial state is another question. But it might not be all that long before all that shiny weaponry that the US is so proud of is sitting and rusting as there will be no money to keep it shiny and at more wars.

Might be an idea to deal with the nations financial mess before expanding into even more military interventions.

 

[ironsides]

Have to come out of that fantasy world you live in and face reality.

 

[bluebyrd35]

How so?



Oh well that's encouraging! Let's go get some poutine together shall we?



I don't own a gun.



<clears throat> I don't own a gun.

So... you were saying?

Perhaps you might explain WHY you do not own a gun but support the sale of such weapons to anyone who can pay (with few exceptions, like those who have shot someone before) The argument of freedom of choice cannot apply, as clearly the right of choice to buy marjihana even for medicinal purposes is unlawful & much less harmful, to not wear a seat belt or smoke in non-smoking areas also are unlawful. So why would the right to buy and carry such a concealed weapon be allowed?

Do you actually believe having the right to own and to walk around with a concealed weapon is beneficial to society as a whole??

Forget poutine, eating that stuff and you can actually feel all your arteries slamming shut!!

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Have to come out of that fantasy world you live in and face reality.

who's "reality"?? The perverted one of gun lovers/ slaves of the US population or the reality that there is more to life and living besides paranoia , guns and wars??? Some of us prefer the reality of peace and peaceful methods to resolving issues.......even if it takes a lot longer some times.

the gun reality of the shoot first ask questions later......american style......is for AMERICA alone. IT defines them . It is their IMAGE. and they work hard at maintaining that image. Now that they have it. They could care less how many are viciously slain with their guns and weapons as long as they feel "the power" and the "imperialism" they are so lethally addicted to.

Have a happy GUN/ WEAPON day. and don't whimper or blame others when the next shooting incident happens as that is the way a culture of violence works. You got it, you can live in it. IF you are so "free" ......why are you so fearful and paranoid to the point that personal protection , security guards are more numerous than those they guard.???

Has it occurred to you that the US is not a safe nation to travel to anymore?? Starting with the gestapo security measures at airports to the massive number of guns that go off at the slightest provocation..

 

[bluebyrd35]

Have to come out of that fantasy world you live in and face reality.[/QUOTE)

The idea of pitting one nation against another and selling arms to both sides is over, except in rare cases. That idea has bankrupted the world and that world is fed up supporting the debt of the country that is trying to maintain that state. Big arms payouts are coming to a rapid end.

Take a look at how many nations are throwing out those petty dictators that have visions of expanding their horizons through guns and military might. Take a close look at the middle east. They want peace, to see their families fed and educated, not used as war fodder.

It is you who are living in a fantasy world.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

PS.........I wouldn;t own a gun if one was given to me. Not a chance. Life is crap shoot anyhow. . The whole idea of even being around a gun is repulsive.

Have to come out of that fantasy world you live in and face reality.[/QUOTE)

The idea of pitting one nation against another and selling arms to both sides is over, except in rare cases. That idea has bankrupted the world and that world is fed up supporting the debt of the country that is trying to maintain that state. Big arms payouts are coming to a rapid end.

Take a look at how many nations are throwing out those petty dictators that have visions of expanding their horizons through guns and military might. Take a close look at the middle east. They want peace, to see their families fed and educated, not used as war fodder.

It is you who are living in a fantasy world.

BRAVO !!! The whole gun culture is truly an amercan one. Guns may have been needed at one time to surive as in food gathering. But that is long past. Most nations have moved on from that mindset. and as you say.......the ME is changing fast , wanting what they define as liberty for a safer non violent world and one where education, good health , sound research are valued more than silly weapons.

 

[ironsides]

who's "reality"?? The perverted one of gun lovers/ slaves of the US population or the reality that there is more to life and living besides paranoia , guns and wars??? Some of us prefer the reality of peace and peaceful methods to resolving issues.......even if it takes a lot longer some times.

the gun reality of the shoot first ask questions later......american style......is for AMERICA alone. IT defines them . It is their IMAGE. and they work hard at maintaining that image. Now that they have it. They could care less how many are viciously slain with their guns and weapons as long as they feel "the power" and the "imperialism" they are so lethally addicted to.

Have a happy GUN/ WEAPON day. and don't whimper or blame others when the next shooting incident happens as that is the way a culture of violence works. You got it, you can live in it. IF you are so "free" ......why are you so fearful and paranoid to the point that personal protection , security guards are more numerous than those they guard.???

Has it occurred to you that the US is not a safe nation to travel to anymore?? Starting with the gestapo security measures at airports to the massive number of guns that go off at the slightest provocation..

First of all, I feel very safe traveling anywhere around the U.S., some people are timid no matter where they are.. Owning a gun does not mean you carry it around with you all the time, but that you might is enough to scare some. Our Second Amendment was actually created to protect us from: Invasion by the British or any foreign power. Our rights can be added to, but never taken away.


To quote a friend: "The 2nd Amendment exists because of the framer's desire to preserve the general militia concept; the ideal that an armed citizenry is the first line of defense of the nation and stand as a barrier to tyranny.

That is why they secured the citizen's pre-existing right to keep and bear arms. The right is not created or granted or given by the Amendment, it is only recognized and guaranteed by the Amendment.

That guarantee was made to ensure that the civil authorities shall have at their disposal a significant number of citizens, (Madison put it at 25% of the total population), ready at a moments notice to be called and appear with a firearm supplied by themselves and an appropriate amount of ammunition to aid the civil authorities in time of need. This "object" is achieved (and can only be achieved) by securing the "means", the right of the citizen to keep and bear firearms free from governmental infringement."
​

 

[CUBert]

Our Second Amendment was actually created to protect us from: Invasion by the British or any foreign power. Our rights can be added to, but never taken away. ​

That's applicable to the modern era how?

To quote a friend: "The 2nd Amendment exists because of the framer's desire to preserve the general militia concept; the ideal that an armed citizenry is the first line of defense of the nation and stand as a barrier to tyranny.

That is why they secured the citizen's pre-existing right to keep and bear arms. The right is not created or granted or given by the Amendment, it is only recognized and guaranteed by the Amendment.

That guarantee was made to ensure that the civil authorities shall have at their disposal a significant number of citizens, (Madison put it at 25% of the total population), ready at a moments notice to be called and appear with a firearm supplied by themselves and an appropriate amount of ammunition to aid the civil authorities in time of need. This "object" is achieved (and can only be achieved) by securing the "means", the right of the citizen to keep and bear firearms free from governmental infringement."

Is your friend Surf Fishing Guru on Yahoo Answers!? LOL!

Why was the second amendment written? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[EagleSmack]

.................

You are the one who is mistaken. Look back and you will see I never made that statement.

What statement exactly? You made quite a few bogus statements and I would happily addess them.

All I said was, that Bin Laden Groups were made up of many units, platoons etc.

FACT... Bin Laden ran one group during the Afghan Soviet War.

Please define these groups. I can define US Military groups down to the fireteam. So can you define these so called Bin Laden groups?

I do not know where their guns came from and I would bet the ones using them did not know either.

Then perhaps you should refrain from your accusations if you do not have facts to support them

I do know that Bin Laden played the world stock markets, and made millions and that is on record.

A perfect example of moving the goal posts.

When was the last time you insinuated that a male you were losing an argument to was off his meds??

I have not lost an argument here.

You are insecure and paranoid.

As for acting like Dick Tracy?? What was wrong with Wonder Woman or Superwoman??

I did not know Wonder Woman and Super Women were detectives. Again, your insecurities and paranoia are surfacing.

Now you think because I am getting the better of you in a discussion, I have a problem with men.

Wishful thinking on your part. You, by your own words seem very sexist and hypocritical.

Well, hardly. Perhaps, after 50 years plus of marriage to a wonderful one, many others appear wanting. Blame him not me.

Poor guy

That was never the contention.... U.S funded the Mujahedin and thus helped Osama! FACT!

The US supported the Mujahedin and did not support Osama. FACT!

Perhaps you might explain WHY you do not own a gun

I simply have no desire to own a gun. I know MANY gun owners and that is their choice.

but support the sale of such weapons to anyone who can pay

Don't be foolish. Where did I say that?

(with few exceptions, like those who have shot someone before)

Even more foolishness. Off your meds are you?

The argument of freedom of choice cannot apply, as clearly the right of choice to buy marjihana even for medicinal purposes is unlawful & much less harmful, to not wear a seat belt or smoke in non-smoking areas also are unlawful. So why would the right to buy and carry such a concealed weapon be allowed?

Freedom of Choice? Oh do tell what the Freedom of Choice is!

Drugs? Is that what this is about... your quest to ingest drugs?

Do you actually believe having the right to own and to walk around with a concealed weapon is beneficial to society as a whole??

Hmmmm.... I cannot find the post where I said that. Would you please point that out to me?

(too easy)

Forget poutine, eating that stuff and you can actually feel all your arteries slamming shut!!

Isn't that a staple?

BRAVO !!! The whole gun culture is truly an amercan one. Guns may have been needed at one time to surive as in food gathering. But that is long past. Most nations have moved on from that mindset. and as you say.......the ME is changing fast , wanting what they define as liberty for a safer non violent world and one where education, good health , sound research are valued more than silly weapons.

And the Canadian lead coalition will make darn sure they get there by dropping bombs on their heads!

 

[petros]

Let me explain something to you.

Anybody that wants a gun can get one. This country is absolutely awash in illegal guns. I would be willingly to lay a bet that I could lay hands on an illegal handgun within 24 hours, and I am in late middle age, still involved in security work, and not exactly tied in to the criminal underground.

I'll take you bet but lets wittle it down to two hours. What would you like auto or pistol?

 

[ironsides]

That's applicable to the modern era how?​

Yes, now more than ever.

PS.........I wouldn;t own a gun if one was given to me. Not a chance. Life is crap shoot anyhow. . The whole idea of even being around a gun is repulsive.

BRAVO !!! The whole gun culture is truly an amercan one. Guns may have been needed at one time to surive as in food gathering. But that is long past. Most nations have moved on from that mindset. and as you say.......the ME is changing fast , wanting what they define as liberty for a safer non violent world and one where education, good health , sound research are valued more than silly weapons.

That is your option, your right, I'm not condemning you for it, in fact no one did that from what I've read. But you sure do a lot of bellowing about what others can and cannot do.. You don't seem to understand that you will never have "a safer non violent world and one where education, good health , sound research are valued" without those silly weapons. As long as there are two people on this Earth there will be arguments and disputes.

 

[Colpy]

PS.........I wouldn;t own a gun if one was given to me. Not a chance. Life is crap shoot anyhow. . The whole idea of even being around a gun is repulsive.

BRAVO !!! The whole gun culture is truly an amercan one. Guns may have been needed at one time to surive as in food gathering. But that is long past. Most nations have moved on from that mindset. and as you say.......the ME is changing fast , wanting what they define as liberty for a safer non violent world and one where education, good health , sound research are valued more than silly weapons.

That outlook requires an outstanding level of naivete, if not outright stupidity.

Those people in the ME?

What do you think the Libyans are fighting with???????

What do you think the Syrians wish they had? (while the gov't mows them down with impunity)

The answer is rifles.

Oh, and BTW, the "gun culture" in the united States springs from the ancient ENGLISH right to keep and bear arms, which extends to Canada...........and we have an extensive "gun culture". why do you think the registration system is about to be killed???

And the most heavily armed nation on earth is Switzerland, which has not been in a war since Napoleon, and has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.

Sorry, but the fairy tales you two are telling each other have nothing to do with reality.

 

[petros]

People in some nations are more eager than others to use their arms while others are less eager and prefer a defensive sense of security rather than an offensive one.

It has nothing to do with nationality but it's a personal choice.

I've never known there not being a weapon in my great grandparents through the generations to my own home.

Either they are part of your life or they aren't.

Many people do or have things that I find different or hard to understand but what goes on in their home is none of my business unless it's illegal business and a threat to me or my neighbours.

 

[cranky]

People in some nations are more eager than others to use their arms while others are less eager and prefer a defensive sense of security rather than an offensive one.

It has nothing to do with nationality but it's a personal choice.

I've never known there not being a weapon in my great grandparents through the generations to my own home.

Either they are part of your life or they aren't.

Many people do or have things that I find different or hard to understand but what goes on in their home is none of my business unless it's illegal business and a threat to me or my neighbours.

Good post. That is pretty much what i mean when i talk about law abiding citizens during the LA riots shooting up the neighborhood, yet in canada, we can have 1000 striking redneck coalminers get caught is a bad case of picket line violence yet not one of them will pull their hunting rifle out of their pickup truck and start shooting.

Its proof that legal access to firearms has less of a correlation to violence than nationality.

 

[petros]

Even from one town to the next the difference can be like night and day and it has nothing to do with race, religion or culture.

 

[ironsides]

Good post. That is pretty much what i mean when i talk about law abiding citizens during the LA riots shooting up the neighborhood, yet in canada, we can have 1000 striking redneck coalminers get caught is a bad case of picket line violence yet not one of them will pull their hunting rifle out of their pickup truck and start shooting.

Its proof that legal access to firearms has less of a correlation to violence than nationality.

Those were not "law abiding citizens during the LA riots shooting up the neighborhood", nor were they that burned and rioted in Vancouver. You do not need a gun to hurt or kill innocents.

 

[bluebyrd35]

That's applicable to the modern era how?​

Yes, now more than ever.

PS.........I wouldn;t own a gun if one was given to me. Not a chance. Life is crap shoot anyhow. . The whole idea of even being around a gun is repulsive.



That is your option, your right, I'm not condemning you for it, in fact no one did that from what I've read. But you sure do a lot of bellowing about what others can and cannot do.. You don't seem to understand that you will never have "a safer non violent world and one where education, good health , sound research are valued" without those silly weapons. As long as there are two people on this Earth there will be arguments and disputes.

...............
Now that is complete rot. How nice would it be if two people argue or have disputes, (this includes countries), that instead of rushing for the artillary, they worked things out either, through a third person as a mediator, discussing the problem as reasonable adults. Even taking the problem before a judge, after all this is what they are trained for.

Military hardware produced by the arms producing countries was sold to people like Gaddafi before he fell out of favour, Saddam Hussein when he was a friend, and Pakistan, which government is now falling into disfavour.

By selling guns, to anyone who wants them and CAN afford them, (then allowing those buyers to conceal them), is insanity. Road rage is rampant, gangs abound who gain status with getting away with murder. Neighbours annoy one another & one rushes for his gun. For goodness sake, there have been gun battles between neighbours on the news over some really minor problem.

Those valued things such as education, good health & sound research are valued but are inaffordable to most countries because they they have been conned into believing military might MUST come before providing such things to their citizens. This policy has bankrupted the world, is an offense against children, the poverty stricken, the old and sick world wide, because the money was spent on armory, military hardware instead of going to the people who need it desperately.

Crickey,What do the countries who have gotten rich off the backs of those poor bas..rds have to look forward to when all those poor countries can no long buy that crap. Many of those old buyers are being overthrown and their citizens taking over. They will probably go for a real form of Democracy too.


.

 

[damngrumpy]

America was born out of revolution, and suspicion of each other from the start.
Canada was formed by the institution of reason over weapons. However
before everyone gets too upset, let me say both countries have lost the abilities
to reason and that is why we are all in so much trouble. It all leads to the
arming of people with rebellious attitudes, and that in turn instills the feelings of
suspicion and mistrust, requiring the need for more arms and concealed weapons.
Do you have the feeling society is just going round and round like a dog chasing
its tail?