Syria ponders filing UN complaint following helicopter attack

[scratch]

It could very well assume border control from
mexico. But that would seem counter productive as it would then be responsible for the care of those whom it occupies.

And if its just going to form a border, well its already got a pretty descent location, so why go further.

If those crossing in from Mexico were throwing bombs around, then US might take a more aggressive role.

Another case of invading/taking over a sovereign nation?
Hasn't that become standard practice now?

 

[Zzarchov]

Its either not sovereign, or its declaring war, if militants are crossing its borders to attack you.

Sovereignty has responsibilities too. If you don't live up to the responsibilities, you aint sovereign.

 

[Praxius]

Information Update:

Three children and a married couple were said to be among the dead

Syria hits out at 'terrorist' US
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Syria hits out at 'terrorist' US

Syria's foreign minister has accused the US of an act of "criminal and terrorist aggression" over what it says was a helicopter raid on its territory.


Walid Muallem said Sunday's attack saw four US aircraft travel eight miles inside Syrian airspace from Iraq and kill eight unarmed civilians on a farm.

He said those who died were a father and his three children, a farm guard and his wife, and a fisherman.

The US has not confirmed or denied the alleged raid.

However, a unnamed US official was quoted by the AFP news agency as saying that its forces had mounted a "successful" raid against foreign fighters threatening US forces in Iraq.

Oh yeah, successful against a family of farmers.... that must have taken great skill and determination. :angry3: fk'wits.

The US has previously accused Syria of allowing militants into Iraq, but Mr Muallem insisted his country was trying to tighten border controls.

'An opportunity'
Speaking at a news conference in London, Mr Muallem said the raid on the town of Abu Kamal was "not a mistake" and that he had urged the Iraqi government to investigate.

"We consider this criminal and terrorist aggression. We put the responsibility on the American government," he told reporters following talks with UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband.


He added: "All of them [the victims] are civilians, Syrian, unarmed and they are on the Syrian territories."

"Killing civilians in international law means a terrorist aggression."
Asked if Syria would use force if a similar operation was mounted, he said: "As long as you are saying if, I tell you, if they do it again, we will defend our terrorities."


Referring to the US presidential election, he said: "We hope the coming administration will learn the mistakes of this administration."

Mr Muallem and Mr Miliband were scheduled to hold a joint press conference, but Mr Miliband withdrew. The UK government has declined to comment on the raid.

The US official quoted by AFP said: "Look when you've got an opportunity, an important one, you take it."
"That's what the American people would expect, particularly when it comes to foreign fighters going into Iraq, threatening our forces."

What a stupid son of a bitch this last guy is.... Oooooo... that's what the American people would expect.... us to blow the sh*t out of a family of farmers in another country.

The US just keeps opening up this can of worms every friggin day.

And the funny thing is that all of these countries that everybody thinks are our enemies and apparently want us all to die keep officially hoping for the next elections to change the west's direction of thinking and to correct their ways from what we all know and understand is a blundered Bush administration who doesn't give a sh*t about anybody on this planet.... hell they don't even care about their own nation.

Wanting and hoping for the West to correct its mistakes and paths they are taken sure is a different view point then from all of them wanting us to die..... hell even the Taliban in Afghanistan say very much the same thing.

Oh, so now you're probably thinking I must believe in the "Terrorist Propaganda" and all that crap since I don't snap sh*t and follow suit with what those in the government tell us..... and I say no.... but much more of what they are all saying sure sounds more logical then what we're being fed by our corrupt officials.

I say screw it...... Pakistan should unleash the demon all over Afghanistan and we should pull out.... and at the same time, Iran and Syria should both unleash the demon all over Iraq..... then Iraqis would be even more pissed about what the US did to their nation, blame the whole thing on them, and then the US would be back to square one with dealing with Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Pakistan, and Iran, and Syria......

Hell, throw North Korea in there too while we're at it.... sure why not.... let's just get WWIII started with shall we?

Then again if it ever starts, it'll be a World War alright.... the World against the US..... I just hope Canada get's some brains and picks the right side to fight on...... and that's the one against the US, cuz I sure as hell have no sympathy or support for that neo-nazi regime south of us.

"Oh, Prax.... calling them Nazis is a bit far fethched and out of context."

Indeed... which is why I called them Neo-Nazis, because they're new, they're following similar trends as the old Nazis.... and give them enough time and space in the world as everybody is currently doing, and they will be soon enough.

See, the thing about following, reading up on and understanding our history, is to try and prevent history from repeating.... and it doesn't do much good when everybody just twiddles their thumbs in question until they know 100% for sure.... which is of course after history repeats again.... which by then is far too late.

The thing that bought the US extra time is by playing the WWII card early and finger pointing at everybody else as being the next Hitlers and Nazi Germanys...... all the while, they're the one's restricting travel into their country with manditory passports, racial profiling at the borders and airports, secret detention facilities accross the globe to do as they please to those they don't like, they're the ones using the whole "Terrorist" card for their own political and greedy agendas, they're the one's invading one nation after another nation...... they've been told to stop and follow proper protocol and did for a year or two, and now here they are attacking two other nations, spreading their military machine accross the globe and all signs are pointing that they are no where near done with their tyrant ways.

They certainly arn't going to stop themselves, because they simply think they're not doing anything wrong...... and so long as we all keep our mouths shut and do nothing, it will continue this way.

Oh well, when WWIII is all said and done, with any luck, the US will be bombed back to the stone ages, Bush and those who supported him will be tried for war crimes, executed... and like all the Jews in WWII, all the displaced Muslims will have a new land to call home... . right smack dab in the middle of the US, while we shove everybody else from the US into Israel.

And all will be good in the world.....

 

[mabudon]

Ooohh Prax I LOVE the idea of giving the displaced a nice piece of the US to inhabit- I think now might be the time to buy stock in concrete retaining walls and bulldozers- very good suggestion

The US is going to pay dearly sooner or later- sad to say but the best thing that could happen to the US is some kind of major arse-whooping at the hands of several armies all at once, and if they keep this crap up I am fairly confident that it WILL happen. They will never admit they're losing until they really, truly LOSE, much as our Afghan mission, where instead of a "mandate for victory" we have now basically admitted defeat by introducing an "artificial timeline"- 5 years ago that was tratorious cowardice, but the reality has softened that perception immensely

 

[EagleSmack]

OK BOYS... Get out the rubbing oil... Prax (edit) talking WAR against the US again!!!!

 

[Zzarchov]

Seriously Prax? Grain of Salt. The Syrian's are making a claim a family of farmers were hit.

1.) Assuming the US forces were even there (they probabably were but Syria isn't always truthful about actions)

2.) Assuming they were farmers

What do you think it is foreign fighters do and where they stay? They don't have skull shaped island hideaways and they don't spend their days when they aren't fighting cashing welfare checks.

Farmers can be bad guys too, so can women, even married ones. Married men and women are suicide bombers, let alone being the much safer gunmen and bomb makers.

And if they are enemy forces, then they really shouldn't be staying with their kids, but should sent them away to an aunts for safekeeping, because the rules of war are pretty clear. If you have take your kid to work day in a warzone, you are the one responsible for them when they die, not the guy shooting at you. If your going to get involved in a war, don't bring your kids along.

 

[Zzarchov]

Ooohh Prax I LOVE the idea of giving the displaced a nice piece of the US to inhabit- I think now might be the time to buy stock in concrete retaining walls and bulldozers- very good suggestion

The US is going to pay dearly sooner or later- sad to say but the best thing that could happen to the US is some kind of major arse-whooping at the hands of several armies all at once, and if they keep this crap up I am fairly confident that it WILL happen. They will never admit they're losing until they really, truly LOSE, much as our Afghan mission, where instead of a "mandate for victory" we have now basically admitted defeat by introducing an "artificial timeline"- 5 years ago that was tratorious cowardice, but the reality has softened that perception immensely

We have by and large already won in Afghanistan. Whats left now has gone from "enemy army" to "criminal gangs". Thats not the Armies territory, thats a police matter. In real terms, the Bloods and the Crypts in the US, hell even in BC, are more military powerful than the Taliban are.

At some point you have to say "near enough to zero", because like most things in life, it never actually reaches zero and it just gets more and more expensive to approach zero.

 

[lone wolf]

We have by and large already won in Afghanistan. Whats left now has gone from "enemy army" to "criminal gangs". Thats not the Armies territory, thats a police matter. In real terms, the Bloods and the Crypts in the US, hell even in BC, are more military powerful than the Taliban are.

At some point you have to say "near enough to zero", because like most things in life, it never actually reaches zero and it just gets more and more expensive to approach zero.

ummm ... Yes, General Westmorland

 

[Zzarchov]

A fitting example. Westmorland won in Vietnam until an uniformed public relying on negative media coverage (needed to garner interest and thus ad money) pulled the plug.

The publics right to do so, but with 20/20 hindsight and access to Soviety sources, the defeat the NVA suffered in the Tet offensive broke their back, the Viet Cong was by and large gone (with no new recruits) after the NVA attrocities on South Vietnamese cities, and the south was actually unifying against the threat of the NVA (after seeing their handiwork). This is why the NVA were looking for what kind of surrender terms they could get, until public opinion shifted and they decided to hang in there (to end up winning when the American's left)


I hate to break it to you, but a bunch of unloved foreigners with shoddy equipment, inferior numbers and no knowledge of the land are not going to dislodge a bunch of unloved foreigners with world class equipment, superior numbers and 5+ years experience in the territory.

Even in their home country the Taliban are getting slapped around by the locals.

 

[lone wolf]

I hate to break it to you, but a bunch of unloved foreigners with shoddy equipment, inferior numbers and no knowledge of the land are not going to dislodge a bunch of unloved foreigners with world class equipment, superior numbers and 5+ years experience in the territory.

Even in their home country the Taliban are getting slapped around by the locals.

I hate to break it to you, but America felt bulletproof. Tet cost support from home - and thus, the war.

The point is: a bunch of unloved foreigners with world class equipment, superior numbers and 5+ years experience in the territory haven't a chance against the people they're pissing off to play cops 'n' robbers with that other bunch of unloved foreigners.

 

[Praxius]

OK BOYS... Get out the rubbing oil... Prax (edit) talking WAR against the US again!!!!

Hey, I'm just saying what most are thinking.... I just don't give a sh*t about pampering the US anymore.... and I certainly don't need to talk about war against the US, you guys are doing plenty all on your own to create it.... I'm just that little beeper at crosswalks for the blind who don't see the car coming.

 

[Praxius]

Seriously Prax? Grain of Salt. The Syrian's are making a claim a family of farmers were hit.

1.) Assuming the US forces were even there (they probabably were but Syria isn't always truthful about actions)

And yet the US has been? Rrrrrriiiigggghhhttt...... :roll: That's the issue, nobody has been telling the truth for sometime now.... including our allies.... which is why I have been resorted to judging what the truth is, based on logical evidence and reports.

2.) Assuming they were farmers

What do you think it is foreign fighters do and where they stay? They don't have skull shaped island hideaways and they don't spend their days when they aren't fighting cashing welfare checks.

Farmers can be bad guys too, so can women, even married ones. Married men and women are suicide bombers, let alone being the much safer gunmen and bomb makers.

And if they are enemy forces, then they really shouldn't be staying with their kids, but should sent them away to an aunts for safekeeping, because the rules of war are pretty clear. If you have take your kid to work day in a warzone, you are the one responsible for them when they die, not the guy shooting at you. If your going to get involved in a war, don't bring your kids along.

Nice long stretch you got there.... first you have to prove they were terrorists or enemy forces, which has yet to be proven..... secondly you have to think if that was the case and they were enemy forces, then they would have sent their children away.... but didn't, so that doesn't follow along your mentality.... thirdly, they are living on their farm, growing food, living with their family..... last I checked, working on a farm takes a lot of time and effort, certainly more time then availble to go off to another country and attack it.

Basically you're trying to fight official reports with wild assumptions..... ain't working.

 

[EagleSmack]

I hate to break it to you, but America felt bulletproof. Tet cost support from home - and thus, the war.

The point is: a bunch of unloved foreigners with world class equipment, superior numbers and 5+ years experience in the territory haven't a chance against the people they're pissing off to play cops 'n' robbers with that other bunch of unloved foreigners.

I could not agree with you more on the first part Wolf. You hit the nail on the head with regards to Vietnam.

But not every war is a Vietnam. The dynamics are very different.

 

[scratch]

I could not agree with you more on the first part Wolf. You hit the nail on the head with regards to Vietnam.

But not every war is a Vietnam. The dynamics are very different.

What have you done since Vietnam.
`Splain` please.

 

[Just the Facts]

Sure, why not... let's broaden the war. Let's spread it out. Not enough people were dying? Not enough nationalities were holding a lifelong grudge after holding their dying children in their arms? There weren't enough governments being told how they need to exercise their sovereignty to western standards?

The war is global already, spreading is not an issue.

 

[Praxius]

Update: - Apparently Iraq wasn't all for this act the US pulled:

Iraq denounces U.S. raid into Syria
Iraq denounces U.S. raid into Syria

Iraq's government has denounced a U.S. air strike that hit a farm and killed eight civilians in a community just inside the Syria border.

"The Iraqi government rejects U.S. aircraft bombarding posts inside Syria," said Ali al-Dabbagh, Iraq's chief spokesman.

Four U.S. helicopters attacked a compound Sunday in the Albou Kamal area of eastern Syria, about eight kilometres from the Iraq border. Eight civilians were killed, according to Syrian officials.

An American official said U.S. forces carried out a raid inside Syria to kill a top al-Qaeda operative in Iraq.

The operative, known as Abu Ghadiyah, was the leader of a network that moves foreign fighters linked to al-Qaeda into Iraq, and the United States was acting on information that he was planning to launch an attack in Iraq, the U.S. official told the Associated Press.

Speaking on condition of anonymity because the raid was classified, the official said Ghadiyah was killed.

But Syria has denied Ghadiyah was in the area where the raid occurred.

"What they are saying is just unjustified," Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Muallem told Reuters on Tuesday.

The Iraq constitution does not allow the country to be used as a staging ground to attack its neighbours, Dabbagh said.

Iraq has opened an investigation into the incident and is urging U.S. forces not to repeat cross-border attacks, he said.

Dabbagh said Iraq is also calling for a halt to insurgent activity in Syria.

Iraq "reiterates its demand to halt all activities of organizations that are using Syria as a staging ground to arm and train terrorists that are targeting Iraq," Dabbagh said.

Syrian outcry

The raid, however, resulted in outcry from Syria, which called the attack outrageous and an act of terrorism.

Muallem said on Monday that Syria would defend its territory if its borders were violated again.

Labid Abbawi, a senior official with the Iraqi Foreign Ministry, said that the country is "trying to contain the fallout from the incident."

"It is regrettable and we are sorry it happened," Abbawi said.

Meanwhile, the Syrian cabinet decided on Tuesday to shut down an American school and cultural centre in Damascus.

Security pact

Tuesday's criticism, Iraq's first official statement on the raid, comes amid efforts to win approval for a new U.S.-Iraqi security agreement.

Iraq's cabinet sent proposed amendments to the pact to U.S. negotiators on Tuesday.

The proposed changes were agreed upon by Iraqi cabinet members on Tuesday and address both wording and content, Dabbagh said.

Iraqi Shia leaders have been concerned that the accord does not prevent U.S. forces from using Iraq as a base for attacks on its neighbours.

The raid may complicate efforts to win approval for the new deal by drawing attention to the fact that Iraq can't control everything American forces do.

The proposed deal would allow American troops to stay in Iraq through 2011 to help build up Iraq's own forces and fight the remaining al-Qaeda militants and Shia extremists.

U.S. officials have insisted the agreement respects Iraqi sovereignty.

But criticisms over the security agreement have alleged Iraqis cannot take control of their own country as long as large numbers of U.S. military forces remain on their soil.

The raid could encourage Syria and Iran to step up pressure on Iraqi legislators to reject the proposed deal.

Parliament must approve the measure before the UN mandate for the multinational forces in Iraq expires on Dec. 31.

So clearly this wasn't a "Joint-Operation" as some would like to believe, considering Iraq's constitution was just cited as claiming that the nation can not be used as a staging ground to attack neighboring nations..... something the US doesn't seem to understand, let alone care.

 

[thomaska]

The attack was meant to get Syrias attention. It worked apparently.

I just can't seem to figure out why they always seem to keep their kids around things that go "boom".

If I were a Syrian farmer and I had bad guys hiding out in my barn..I'm gonna keep my kids out of that barn.

As for them filing a complaint with the UN..pfft...we've all seen how useful those things are...

 

[Avro]

The attack was meant to get Syrias attention. It worked apparently.

I just can't seem to figure out why they always seem to keep their kids around things that go "boom".

If I were a Syrian farmer and I had bad guys hiding out in my barn..I'm gonna keep my kids out of that barn.

As for them filing a complaint with the UN..pfft...we've all seen how useful those things are...

Yeah really, if the U.S. hadn't illegally attacked Iraq for no reason those kids would be alive today.:roll:

Jackass.

 

[Praxius]

The attack was meant to get Syrias attention. It worked apparently.

That is so fk'n stupid.... yeah, justify killing a farming family due to some assumption they were terrorists and then justify it as trying to get Syria's attention.

Yeah, you'll get their attention alright.... you'll get more attention then you guys can afford.... friggin tyrants.

I just can't seem to figure out why they always seem to keep their kids around things that go "boom".

Maybe because there wasn't anything that went "Boom" until your helicopters full of special forces gunned them down and then attempted to disapear before you were caught by witnesses.

Yeah, takes real men to gun down a family of farmers.... gotta send in the big guys.... the special forces for that sort of thing don't ya?

Oh well there were kids in the area huh? Well I guess that's a green light to gun them down.... wrong place at the wrong time I guess huh?

Oh wait, they were at the right place and the right time, because it was their fk'n home in a country where they shouldn't have to worry about forign jerk-wads like the US coming in and blowing them away for sh*ts and giggles.

Oh well.... kill the kids seems to be your guy's protocol..... kill the kids and then you don't have to worry about them growing up hating the US and wanting to blow your asses up later on..... might as well kill two birds with one stone, eh?

You guys make me fk'n sick.

If I were a Syrian farmer and I had bad guys hiding out in my barn..I'm gonna keep my kids out of that barn.

Were there any "Bad Guys" reported as killed in that barn you speak of? Nope.... just a husband, wife and their kids.... unless you're gonna tell us those kids where the evil terrorists you had to send in multiple helicopters loaded with SF troops to kill them..... must have been pretty scary people. :angry3:

As for them filing a complaint with the UN..pfft...we've all seen how useful those things are...

Yeah, where the UN lets you guys get away with fk'n bloody murder... and then people like you turn around and laugh about it like it's some kind of a joke.... yeah ha ha.... more rag heads died for your bloody crusade against Bush's evil-doers..... yeah, real hilarious.... I think I just shat meself.

I can't wait until you guys are destroyed by your own actions..... and I'm not the only one waiting for this day..... must be pretty sad to know that even your own so-called allies are hoping for your country's destruction.

Oh yeah, what do you guys care about what other's think..... the world revolves around you guys afterall..... how silly of me to think you guys might have one shred of humanity left in your bodies.

 

[Zzarchov]

So wait a minute, if borders are so sacrosanct why are they crossing the border into Iraq to blow up some Shia children for daring to oppose their one true version of Islam?

For loving children they sure seem to love killing Iraqi children.

So, what is your logic that farmers and wives don't kill people? Are you aware those special forces soldiers are also probably married and have pre military jobs, possibley including farmer?

You think the US flew all the way out to Syria, to shoot at random Barn?

But hey, its Just Syria, its not like Syria has currently occupying a foreign nation and assasinating its leaders when they propose Syria leave them the hell alone.

Im sure its easily trusted and only up to noble intentions.

I don't mind the critisicm of the US, but show some freaking comparable level of skeptisicm to Syria, you know, the nation that frequently invades and assasinates its neighbours.