Shut Up about Iran
- Thread starter JBeee
- Start date
So we will have to wait until Iranians have built up sufficient international media before the one million dead figure becomes official fact, and if they are not successful then it never happened eh.:smile:
Oh no...the boogiemen of the CIA and Mossad are coming to get you!
Beware the Black Helicopters!
The next time you hear a click on the phone it just might be them!
You don't care about "the good people of Iran". You hope Iran descends into a civil war and hundreds of thousands of people are killed in the process.
Just because I am against efforts to destabilize Iran, doesn't mean I support the status quo or adore any of Iran's leaders. I don't even like Mousavi.
I'd like to see Iran's political system become a secular democracy where everyone is equal, provided its done by the Iranians without outside interference. Encouraging instability without taking responsibility for the consequences would be irresponsible and unwise.
I would be bothered by a repeat of this incident:
Just because you are ignorant of your country's efforts to destabilize Iran, doesn't mean it isn't going on in a big way. Explain this:
Sure sounds like a destabilization effort to me. How would you describe this? If Iran did the same thing to the US, would you be pissed?
Therefore, I'm skeptical regarding the accuracy of our news coverage. I believe the initial demonstrations were legitimate and spontaneous. But I also believe that most of the online chatter has been misinformation and part of the effort to destabilize Iran.
I advocate patience regarding Iran. The majority of Iranians are under 30 years old, don't like hardliners like Ahmadinejad and do not support the current theocratic system. Young Iranians are more liberal and pro-west. Sooner of later this demographic will change Iran.
Interfering with Iran's natural political evolution would probably backfire. The hardliners would use outside interference as an excuse to crackdown and maintain power by force. Iran would become even more belligerent toward the west. The next generation would still gain power eventually, but the process would be slower and more bloody.
How can Canada comment on the election in Iran while the Ontario Ministry of Edcuation has itself been declared in violation of Article 26 of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights.
If I'm a thief, it's kind of hard for me to be taken seriously while I'm pointing fingers at the murderer saying how evil he is. Sure, he would be worse than I, but it still wouldn't change the fact that my credibility would be shot owing to my being a thief.
The same applies here. What Iran did was far worse than the petty violation of the Ontario Ministry of Education over the Separate School system, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's in violation and thus sending the message that international law applies only to others, but not us. At that stage, we lose the moral right to criticize until we clean up our own act in our own backyard first. And then we can coment on them.
If I'm a thief, it's kind of hard for me to be taken seriously while I'm pointing fingers at the murderer saying how evil he is. Sure, he would be worse than I, but it still wouldn't change the fact that my credibility would be shot owing to my being a thief.
The same applies here. What Iran did was far worse than the petty violation of the Ontario Ministry of Education over the Separate School system, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's in violation and thus sending the message that international law applies only to others, but not us. At that stage, we lose the moral right to criticize until we clean up our own act in our own backyard first. And then we can coment on them.
I'm still waiting for someone to post proof the Iranian elections were rigged. I haven't seen any conclusive proof either way.
I do know that pre-election polls indicated indicated Ahmadinejad led his opposition by a 2:1 ratio.
Rural areas and the illiterate overwhelming supported Ahmadinejad. Urban areas and the educated marginally supported Mousavi. Overall the final election results appear in line with pre-election polls.
People claim they know the Iranian election was rigged. My question is "How?" Where is this election fraud evidence?
If this evidence doesn't exist, then how did everyone become convinced the elections were rigged?
If the media keeps repeating the same unsupported allegation over and over as fact, does that prove the allegation is a fact?
If people believe unsupported allegations because they have been repeated ad nasuem by the media, does that prove the allegations are factual or that people are easily manipulated?
Is anyone out there capable of critical thought? Or are we all sheeple?
I do know that pre-election polls indicated indicated Ahmadinejad led his opposition by a 2:1 ratio.
Rural areas and the illiterate overwhelming supported Ahmadinejad. Urban areas and the educated marginally supported Mousavi. Overall the final election results appear in line with pre-election polls.
People claim they know the Iranian election was rigged. My question is "How?" Where is this election fraud evidence?
If this evidence doesn't exist, then how did everyone become convinced the elections were rigged?
If the media keeps repeating the same unsupported allegation over and over as fact, does that prove the allegation is a fact?
If people believe unsupported allegations because they have been repeated ad nasuem by the media, does that prove the allegations are factual or that people are easily manipulated?
Is anyone out there capable of critical thought? Or are we all sheeple?
No, there is no evidence as of yet to prove that the elections were rigged. It still doesn't change the fact that many Iranians believe they were rigged, and there's no evidence that there was any foreign involvement in the demonstrations either. Just irrational huffing and puffing on both sides.
Of course, rigged or not, the government is known to suppress minority religious groups, and that is well documented by many Iranian refugees in many countries. In fact I'd had friends in Victoria who had to escape the revolution.
All this having been said though, it is quite hipocritical of Canada to comment on it when we ourselves are violating Article 26 of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights with regards to the Separate School system in Ontario, our treatment of First Nations, etc.
We need to pull the moat our of our eyes first.
Of course, rigged or not, the government is known to suppress minority religious groups, and that is well documented by many Iranian refugees in many countries. In fact I'd had friends in Victoria who had to escape the revolution.
All this having been said though, it is quite hipocritical of Canada to comment on it when we ourselves are violating Article 26 of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights with regards to the Separate School system in Ontario, our treatment of First Nations, etc.
We need to pull the moat our of our eyes first.
Actually if you knew anything about tapping, you would know that you do not hear a click..
There are a lot of good people in Iran, unfortunately for them it will take a civil war to get them the freedoms they deserve. The longer it takes, the more will die and the more countries will become drawn into the eventual conflict. Right now there is nothing that any one country can do to help them. We all unfortunately have to sit back again and watch as we did with Hungary, Tibet and other countries.
This mathematical analysis of the numbers strongly suggests fraud:
Basically these mathematicians analyzed the election numbers and found patterns indicative of human manipulation. Not proof of fraud, but highly suggestive.
Basically these mathematicians analyzed the election numbers and found patterns indicative of human manipulation. Not proof of fraud, but highly suggestive.
''the government is known to suppress minority religious groups, and that is well documented by many Iranian refugees in many countries.''
Iran also has the highest amount of refugees who escaped from Kurdistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan's wars. It is far more tolerant than we are led to believe in the West.
Not to change the subject but no one has answered my question re why this election has gotten so much media attention whereas the stolen election in Zimbabwe and the thousands of deaths there was ignored.
Iran also has the highest amount of refugees who escaped from Kurdistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan's wars. It is far more tolerant than we are led to believe in the West.
Not to change the subject but no one has answered my question re why this election has gotten so much media attention whereas the stolen election in Zimbabwe and the thousands of deaths there was ignored.
Which I don't.
So let me change that then for you.
The next time you DON'T hear a click it might be them!
Feel better?
Sure I care about them and I am SO GLAD to see the good people of Iran stand up to the Iranian Revolutionary Council and their puppet president Ahmadinejad.
I don't hope hundreds of thousandds of Iranians are killed. I know that you hope for a million Iraqi's killed but I am not like you.
And how would the Iranians achieve that?
Voting doesn't seem to help because their is obviously fraud and a stolen election over there. The Rev Council isn't about to give up their supreme powers.
Nope... off topic.
The Iranian dictatorship does all they can to strike out against the US
Of course you do!
We're seeing it now and it is GREAT!
That is why Obama isn't really saying anything.
The 2008 Zimbabwe elections:
During the first election campaign, pro-government supporters attacked and killed many supporters of the opposition. Voter rolls were stacked with "people" who lived in non-existent homes or impossible concentrations like 75 people living in a single room shack.
Despite the intimidation and violence, unofficial results indicated the MDC led by Tsvangirai won a majority. The government did not release any official numbers pending a partial recount. Two weeks later the ballot boxes showed up for the recount with obvious signs of tampering. Ballot box seals had be broken and information required to verify voter rolls was missing. The final official result was Opposition 47.9%, Incumbent 43.2% which required a run-off election.
Within the first two weeks of the run off campaign more than 50 opposition supporters had been killed as they put up posters or knocked on doors. Opposition supporters began to fight back and the violence escalated significantly. As well police prevented opposition rallies and arbitrarily arrested opposition supporters. In order to stop the violence and possibly civil war, opposition leader Tsvangirai stopped campaigning, withdrew from the election and called for a election boycott.
The runoff election took place anyway marred by voter intimidation, obstruction of opposition agents and many obvious examples of ballot box stuffing. Not surprisingly Mugabe won by a landslide.
International pressure eventually forced Mugabe to enter into a power sharing agreement with Tsvangirai. As part of the arrangement, Mugabe remained in control of the military.
Zimbabwean presidential election, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Second round of voting in the 2008 Zimbabwean presidential election - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Zimbabwe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I remember meeting an Afghan refugee to Iran in Beijing in 2004. It is possible for a country to suppress one group while being welcoming towards another. Heck, the same can even be said of Canada to a lesser degree if we should replace the word 'suppress' with 'discriminate against'.
Valid question. Iran has something we want I suppose, be it resources, a geostrategic location, a potential market, or maybe even just that they look more like us racially? I don't have an answer, but these are just tentative guesses.
God help Zimbabwe if and when Mugabe is removed from the picture. His country has paid dearly for shuning the grasping western hand. We only have to look to Somalia or the DRC and meter the carnage that comes with the bankers love.
Watching and waiting is the right thing to do. A tme may come for action, but that is up to the Iranians. I am sympathetic to the protestors, but I don't think they have enough support to cause change. This can change quickly.
When Iranians overthrew the US supported Shah, they started out with similar protests. During the crackdown, the government killed a few protestors. Forty days later, Iranians morned their deaths publicly as per their custom. That led to bigger protests and bigger crackdowns. The cycle repeated itself a couple of times.
Iranian Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eventually Iranians overthrew their oppressive US supported dictatorship, despite US interference in support of the Shah.
I guess they must not like the idea of a New World Order in Iran either?
So we do we stand up against our puppets of Harper, Obama etc in the Western world?