Quit picking on Obama……

[gopher]

One thing that may be readily overlooked in Virginia's vote is the fact that in 2001 -- only two months after 9/11 -- the state voted for Democrat Warner as governor over the Republican candidate at that time.

Virginia is a wierd type state and its politics a bit confusing to explain. But they call themselves a ''commonwealth'' rather than a state. They like to call themselves independent of Washington DC but, as usual, they do not reject Federal dollars in the form of subsidies, abatements, or bailouts.

 

[DaSleeper]

Oh I see - Bill Owens was ahead when I last heard. Owens is a great scholar and served in the military for many years. He is moderate Democrat and has all the credentials to be a good pol - he opposes tax increases, wants to have Bush's corporate tax cuts expire, and wants legislation that protects hs area from exporting jobs (I want this at the Federal level). By the way, he LOVES Canada!

Yup, It looks like he will win.....unless all them farmers vote against him...What I find amazing is that someone who came in late in the race ...as an independent could do so well....I only seen him once in an interview, and he didn't seem able to put a sentence together....certainly not a politician and to take that many votes away from the Democrats.....must mean something non?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Maybe the three Democrat Governors who will loose tonight will blame Obama?:idea:

It is not three, it is two, get your facts right. The third was a House race and Democrats won that, making history. I think this was the first time a democrat has won that district since the Civil War. This may be sign of trouble to come for the Republicans in 2010 (if they split their votes between a moderate and a conservative candidate).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

'

The Republican candidate was known for suggesting women should be barefoot and pregnant but that was probably a good selling point among the Pukies.

Quite so, Gopher. He also made derogatory comments about homosexuals. But this really shows that Deeds was a lousy campaigner. He criticized The Republican candidate for making derogatory comments about women and gays? Why? In a state like Virginia, making derogatory comments about women and gays probably got the Republican candidate even more votes. Virginia is the typical redneck, Bible Belt state. It was the heart of the confederacy after all.

Virginia has always been a heavily Republican state (they do elect a Democratic governor when there is a Republican president, however), so yesterday’s results were not at all unexpected.

 

[ironsides]

In Virginia, 55-year-old former state attorney general Bob McDonnell will be the first Republican to win the state's highest office in twelve years, CNN projects. Republicans will win races for Virginia's lieutenant governor and attorney general as well.

In New Jersey, former federal prosecutor Chris Christie will oust first-term Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine, CNN projects. Christie will be the first Republican to win the top office in heavily Democratic New Jersey in 12 years.
12 Years, do you understand the swing is happening, Democrats are sinking.

About the only thing you were accurate about was, yes Virginia the heart of the confederacy, but then again your part of a confederacy.

 

[DaSleeper]

'

You mentioned a third state - which one?

Sorry, I meant the New york race for the House member...too close to call right now but could go either way.....

It is not three, it is two, get your facts right. The third was a House race and Democrats won that, making history. I think this was the first time a democrat has won that district since the Civil War. This may be sign of trouble to come for the Republicans in 2010 (if they split their votes between a moderate and a conservative candidate).

Do you have a reading problem??
I already told "Gopher" that I had mixed up a house candidate and Governors election...you seem to see what you want to see and "poo" "poo" everything that doesn't fit in your narrow mind....:roll:
And you call a narrow win against a newcomer....making history???
You do have a one track mind and tunnel vision:lol:

 

[EagleSmack]

Virginia is a wierd type state and its politics a bit confusing to explain. But they call themselves a ''commonwealth'' rather than a state. They like to call themselves independent of Washington DC but, as usual, they do not reject Federal dollars in the form of subsidies, abatements, or bailouts.

Massachusetts calls itself a Commonwealth as well...we are arguably the most Liberal state in the Union...I guess we're a weird type state.

 

[EagleSmack]

It is not three, it is two, get your facts right. The third was a House race and Democrats won that, making history. I think this was the first time a democrat has won that district since the Civil War. This may be sign of trouble to come for the Republicans in 2010 (if they split their votes between a moderate and a conservative candidate).

Ah Joey... the rose colored glasses fit you. The Democrats made a good play on this special election by offering the Secretary of the Army seat to the sitting Republican. The GOP candidate was not even supported by the GOP and they tossed their lot with a Conservative party candidate. The GOP candidate withdrew from the election and tossed her support to the Democrats in spite. So the divided house did not stand but the seat will be up for grabs next year.

But all news agencies...even your beloved CNN are calling this election night a win for the GOP and say if my President does not get his butt in gear things will not bode well.

Nice try though...it was the only diamond in the rough.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In Virginia, 55-year-old former state attorney general Bob McDonnell will be the first Republican to win the state's highest office in twelve years, CNN projects.

Quite so, ironsides. And why did a Democrat win the last two times? Because Bush was the president. It is part of the pattern, I wouldn't read too much into it (unless of course, one is a Republican).

Much more serious is the civil war within the Republican Party.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Of course it was a win for Republicans, EagleSmack, no question about it. The question is, what does it mean? The answer is, absolutely nothing, it is what has been happening for the past 20 years. The party which has the presidency loses both the governorships. Also exist polls in both New Jersey and Virginia indicated that 60% voters said Obama was not a factor, the elections were dominated by local issues.

But the problem Republicans have is much more serious. In 23rd district, The combined vote for conservative and moderate Republicans (and no matter what the label, they were both republicans) was more than what Democrats got. So vote splitting maybe a serious problem for Republicans in 2010. It also shows that the conservative candidate so put some voters off that they preferred to vote for the official Republican candidate and waste their vote, rather than vote for the conservative.

Even more significant factor is that the combined vote for the two Republican candidates was only slightly more than the Democratic candidate. In a safe Republican seat, I would expect the total of two Republican candidates to exceed that for the Democratic candidate by double digits. This tells me that some of the moderate voters were so put off by the infighting in the Republican Party that they actually voted for a Democrat (probably for the first time in their life).

So unless Republicans can get their act together, they are doomed in 2010. If there is a Democratic candidate, a moderate Republican and a conservative Republican running, most of the time the Democrat will win. If they don’t get their act together, they will be lucky to keep what seats they have in 2010.

 

[EagleSmack]

Of course it was a win for Republicans, EagleSmack, no question about it.

That's right.

The question is, what does it mean? The answer is, absolutely nothing,

LOL. Keep telling yourself that. Luckily for you the Democrats aren't taking it lightly and will have to do something or next year could be a disaster.

it is what has been happening for the past 20 years. The party which has the presidency loses both the governorships. Also exist polls in both New Jersey and Virginia indicated that 60% voters said Obama was not a factor, the elections were dominated by local issues.

I agree... Obama campaigned heavily for the Democrat incumbents, spending millions in treasure and he was no factor at all. There was not a thing he could do for them.

But the problem Republicans have is much more serious. In 23rd district, The combined vote for conservative and moderate Republicans (and no matter what the label, they were both republicans) was more than what Democrats got. So vote splitting maybe a serious problem for Republicans in 2010. It also shows that the conservative candidate so put some voters off that they preferred to vote for the official Republican candidate and waste their vote, rather than vote for the conservative.

This was already explained by me in another post. The GOP was divided and supported a Conservative candidate. The GOP candidate in spite threw her support in with the Democrat. A house divided cannot stand and it was actually a good message.

Even more significant factor is that the combined vote for the two Republican candidates was only slightly more than the Democratic candidate. In a safe Republican seat, I would expect the total of two Republican candidates to exceed that for the Democratic candidate by double digits. This tells me that some of the moderate voters were so put off by the infighting in the Republican Party that they actually voted for a Democrat (probably for the first time in their life).

See above... the GOP candidate in spite cast her support in favor of the Democrat. I am only assuming that many supporters followed her lead but I am not as pompous as you to declare assumptions as fact.

So unless Republicans can get their act together, they are doomed in 2010. If there is a Democratic candidate, a moderate Republican and a conservative Republican running, most of the time the Democrat will win. If they don’t get their act together, they will be lucky to keep what seats they have in 2010.

See above... a house divided.

But NEW JERSEY... a SOLID Blue State gave the Democrat his walking papers. I'd be wary...and the Democrat Party is indeed. It is all over the news.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

But NEW JERSEY... a SOLID Blue State gave the Democrat his walking papers. I'd be wary...and the Democrat Party is indeed. It is all over the news.

New Jersey has done it before, EagleSmack, twelve years ago (when Clinton was the president. When president is a Republican, New Jersey (and Virginia) elects a Democratic governor. When preside is a democrat, it elects a Republican governor. That is nothing unusual.

What is unusual is the Republican house divided. If Republicans don’t sort out the problem, make room for moderates in their party, they are in for a big trouble in 2010.

If the civil war continues into 2010, that will be bad enough. What will be worse is if conservatives succeed in driving moderates out of the party. That will ensure that Republicans will remain in opposition for long time to come, perhaps for decades.

The other day CNN described several Republican senators who are facing serious challenge in the primary by a conservative candidate. It is not too far fetched to think that if they win the primary in spite of the conservative opposition, there may well be a third, conservative candidate in race and it may be a repeat of the 23rd district all over again. Or if any of these senators were to lose a primary, he will run as an independent (like Lieberman did).

I think republicans have some serious soul searching to do.

 

[Cannuck]

But NEW JERSEY... a SOLID Blue State gave the Democrat his walking papers.

That should help solve some of the corruption issues Jersey has had.

 

[ironsides]

Of course SJP, every state has done it before one way or another what is your point. What you are seeing is the anger and frustration the American people have been lied to. You really didn't think we were going to allow this last long did you? Beginning of the end for the California run Democratic party.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Of course SJP, every state has done it before one way or another what is your point.

My point is that since 1989, the party which did not have the presidency has consistently won both New Jersey and Virginia governorships. Both Democrats and Republicans have done that. So yesterday's result is nothing out of the ordinary.

What is out of ordinary is the result in 23rd district, where a Democrat won for the first time since civil war, because of the infighting in the Republican Party.

 

[EagleSmack]

What is out of ordinary is the result in 23rd district, where a Democrat won for the first time since civil war, because of the infighting in the Republican Party.

You mean US Grant was the President the same time he was the General of the Union Army?

 

[gopher]

''12 Years, do you understand the swing is happening, Democrats are sinking.''


How so? Their majority in Congress actually INCREASED.

HOW IS THIS A LOSS???

 

[gopher]

''What is unusual is the Republican house divided.''

What has been overlooked by the far right news media is that Hoffman was ahead by at least 6 points in the polls until -- get this -- Palin and Limpballs intervened and started mouthing off on Republican moderates.

People need to understand one very important thing: the MAJORITY of New York Republicans are MODERATE. The type of far right radicalism that we see in the deep south or midwest or on this forum is generally not approved of in NYS or in NJ. Moderation is the key to Republican politics and generally has been for decades.

For two radical outsiders like Limpy and Palin to attack a favorite daughter in that area or to tell New Yorkers that they are not as smart as these two clowns was considered very insulting. Hoffman was comfortably ahead but lost the moment those two idiots started their hate and attacks on Scozzafava.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

''12 Years, do you understand the swing is happening, Democrats are sinking.''


How so? Their majority in Congress actually INCREASED.

HOW IS THIS A LOSS???

Quite so, Gopher. Democrats won not one seat, but two seats in the House. I don’t know why the other seat in California did not get any attention. Democrat won easily there, keeping the seat Democratic.

No doubt Republicans will put a positive spin on the election, will claim that this shows that they are sure to win the senate and House in 2010 and sure to win presidency in 2012 (with Joan of Arc as candidate).

To be fair, Democrats did the same thing in 2001 and 2005. When they won both New Jersey and Virginia, they claimed that Democrats were on the roll, that they were favored to win the following year. Republicans played down the election results. This year both parties are behaving in exactly the opposite manner, that is politics.

Anyway, though Democrats won in 2001, Republicans won in 2002, I think they actually increased their margin in the senate and the House. But in 2006 they got their clock handed to them. So New Jersey and Virginia results are not really a reliable predictor of what havens the following year.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

''What is unusual is the Republican house divided.''

What has been overlooked by the far right news media is that Hoffman was ahead by at least 6 points in the polls until -- get this -- Palin and Limpballs intervened and started mouthing off on Republican moderates.

People need to understand one very important thing: the MAJORITY of New York Republicans are MODERATE. The type of far right radicalism that we see in the deep south or midwest or on this forum is generally not approved of in NYS or in NJ. Moderation is the key to Republican politics and generally has been for decades.

For two radical outsiders like Limpy and Palin to attack a favorite daughter in that area or to tell New Yorkers that they are not as smart as these two clowns was considered very insulting. Hoffman was comfortably ahead but lost the moment those two idiots started their hate and attacks on Scozzafava.

I can see this type of thing playing out in a fair number of Senate and House seats in 2010, which cannot be good news for Republicans.

Florida is a classic case. Crist is the front runner in the Republican primary, Rubio is the conservative challenger. Now, Crist is a team player. If he loses in the primary, I don’t see him running as a third party candidate, he will totally and enthusiastically support Rubio, even though Rubio is much more conservative than Crist.

However, the same cannot be said of Rubio. If he loses the primary (as is quite likely), I can well see him running as an independent or a third party candidate. Then it will be a repeat of 23rd district all over again. Florida will go from a probable Republican winner (I don’t know much about Florida politics, but I assume Crist would be the favorite to win the Senate seat, I understand he is popular) to a probable Republican loser (due to vote splitting by a moderate and a conservative).

Republicans will be lucky to keep what they have unless they can get their act together. 23rd district went from a sure Republican winner to a loser. If that happens even in a handful of places, it may spell big trouble for Republicans in 2010.