Question about asbestos.

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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This is long and I apologize for that. I just wanted to post the link but for some reason, I don't seem to get what it is that I have to do in order to just do that. I do what I have been told but it still never works for me.

Asbestos wasn't always a dirty word.
It was once called the "magic mineral" and was touted as Canadian gold — a unique resource that was going to bring our country wealth and prosperity.
The needle-like fibre had many uses and inventors were tripping over each other to find more: it was woven into clothes, building insulation and coffee pots. It was even mixed with children's play dough and, at one point, had roughly 4,000 other applications.
But in the 1960s and '70s, when more and more asbestos miners started coughing up blood, the sheen wore off. Canada has spent the last 20-plus years trying to rid our homes, schools and offices — including Parliament Hill — of the dangerous dust that was often loosely sprayed as insulation.
Our hospitals, however, are still dealing with the aftereffects. In 2007, at an occupational health clinic in Sarnia, Ont., nurses continue to register almost one new patient a day with asbestos-related cancer, such as mesothelioma, or asbestosis, says the clinic's executive director, Jim Brophy.
The southwestern Ontario city of 73,000 is home to a large petrochemical complex, which includes such companies as Imperial Oil, Suncor and Shell. The thousands of pipes that run throughout this "chemical valley" were covered with asbestos insulation and some still remains.
Quebec, home to most of Canada's asbestos mines, has one of the highest rates of mesothelioma on the planet.
Worldwide, about 125 million people are exposed to asbestos at work and at least 90,000 die each year from asbestos-related diseases, according to the World Health Organization.
"It's really a public health epidemic," Brophy said.
Still mined

In spite of health concerns, asbestos continues to be mined in Canada. Our country is the second-largest exporter of the mineral after Russia, shipping it mainly to developing countries such as India and China.
What's more, unlike countries in the European Union, as well as Japan, Australia and Saudi Arabia, Canada has not banned asbestos. Rather, the federal government actively promotes its use globally. An October 2008 editorial in the Canadian Medical Association Journal criticizing asbestos exporting called Canada "an avid asbestos cheerleader."
Ottawa argues that the type of asbestos mined today, chrysotile (white asbestos), is different than the type (amphibole) that has wreaked so much havoc. It's less crumbly and is used for things like cement, a solid that is less likely to release the deadly fibres into the atmosphere, says the Chrysotile Institute, a government-funded organization that promotes controlled use of the mineral.
But there are still calls for an outright ban of the substance in Canada. In July 2007, the Canadian Cancer Society called for the federal government to phase out both the use and export of asbestos. It said that exposure to asbestos must stop in order to eliminate the diseases associated with the fibres.
Such a ban, of course, would have a devastating effect on long-time asbestos miners, who are among the most vulnerable population.
"For decades these workers suffered the brunt of these asbestos-related diseases, and are now watching their livelihood, not just for themselves but for the whole community, hit the tank," said Brophy. "We have a terrible situation going on."


Read more: CBC News - Canada - Asbestos: The magic mineral that was once Canada's gold
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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Here you'll find a link where the town of Asbestos in Quebec wants, and expects to get, a $59 million loan to expand the mine and export even more. Time to stop these exports.

CBC News - Montreal - Quebec town seeks to expand asbestos mining

Quebec town seeks to expand asbestos mining

Last Updated: Thursday, April 29, 2010 | 6:15 PM ET

CBC News


A group of business co-operatives has raised $2 million to expand mining operations in the Quebec town that is home to the last two asbestos mines in Canada.
The money will go toward a $190-million plan to reopen an underground portion of the Jeffrey Mine in Asbestos, Que., allowing operations to continue there year-round.

The economic well-being of the region depends on the survival of the mine and the asbestos industry, said director of the Caisse Desjardins des Métaux blancs, Alain Boucher.

Over the past five years, more than 1,000 jobs have been lost in the region 200 kilometres east of Montreal, said Boucher.
Boucher said the expansion of operations at the Jeffrey Mine would help create or preserve 450 jobs.

The owners of the mine as well as the co-operative of mine workers have contributed $130 million toward the project.

Officials are also waiting for a response on a request for a $58-million loan from the provincial government.

The $2 million raised by local businesses will send a clear message that people in the region want this project to go ahead, said Asbestos Mayor Hugues Grimard.
The Quebec government has faced international criticism for its continued export of the mineral, also known as chrysotile.
Province’s position borderline racist: Indian group

Health authorities around the world have long advocated against the use of asbestos, which poses health risks when the fibres that make up the mineral get into the air that people breathe.

According to Health Canada, when inhaled in significant quantities, asbestos fibres can cause a scarring of the lungs that impedes breathing; mesothelioma, a rare cancer of the lining of the chest or abdominal cavity; and lung cancer.

The material, which was widely used in the construction and other industries between the 1950s and 70s, often as insulation, has been banned in many developed countries, including the 27 member states of the European Union. In Canada itself, its use is strictly controlled through the Hazardous Products Act.

Earlier this week, a member of an Indian health group accused Quebec Premier Jean Charest of borderline racism, because of his stance on exports to India.
In a letter written to Charest, Mohit Gupta of the Occupational and Environmental Health Network of India accused the premier of dismissing Indians as second-class citizens.

Quebec rarely uses asbestos in construction projects at home but exports the mineral to developing countries, said Gupta.

During a visit to India in February, Charest suggested it was up to other countries to put in place laws to protect their workers from the risks related to asbestos.
The asbestos industry fiercely defends the mineral and deems it perfectly safe as long as precautions are followed.


 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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If (and we all know it is) asbestos is banned in this country, why are we handling it at all? Is there a danger to the health of those who work in - what - asbestos mines?

You should be careful not to be like the cat that jumped on the hot stove.............:smile:
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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What? Canadian asbestos is benign while US asbestos kills? What, your farts smell like roses?



But the question is, is there an international law against this already?

To the best of my knowledge, it's legal. So it makes it hard to oppose Canada on legal grounds. Then there is the option of getting a WTO resolution against it passed. But again, since resolutions carry not legal, but only moral authority, a resolution, while potentially embarrassing the government, would still not have any legal teeth. But hey, it would be a small step forward I suppose.

The use of asbestos (except for some small exceptions) is illegal. Asbestos is an incredible insulator. As construction material there is no equal. They have not found anything that matches it and it's qualities. However with the good you get the bad. Asbestos is extremely harmful when inhaled and causes lung cancer. Gosh you folks already know that so forgive me. But because of that it is banned in most western nations.

It is not banned in many other nations. India (to name one) is a huge importer of asbestos as it is cheap and so good. For the most part they are ignoring the long term affects it will have on it's building trade workers, etc. for the short term gains. So if these countries are buying, Russia, China, Kazahkstan, Canada, and Brazil are selling.

This is long and I apologize for that. I just wanted to post the link but for some reason, I don't seem to get what it is that I have to do in order to just do that. I do what I have been told but it still never works for me.

Asbestos wasn't always a dirty word.
It was once called the "magic mineral" and was touted as Canadian gold — a unique resource that was going to bring our country wealth and prosperity.

No question about it VanIsle. Asbestos is the best stuff around when it comes to building materials and insulation materials. Spray insulation, pipe covering, ceiling tiles, floor tiles, wall covering, they used asbestos for just about everything. It was cheap, easily molded, easily sprayed and when dried ALMOST as hard as a rock. To this day it has not been duplicated. It has been replaced by more expensive and less effective materials and therein lies the kicker.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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There was an article on Asbestos in Mcleans a few months ago. Check out the Asbestos industry website. Not sure how much of it can be believed but there are two types and the one mined in Quebec does not create the health problems that we hear about. It is a good insulating product and used correctly is harmless to the public. Those that work with it must wear appropriate PPE same as fiberglass insulation.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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There was an article on Asbestos in Mcleans a few months ago. Check out the Asbestos industry website. Not sure how much of it can be believed but there are two types and the one mined in Quebec does not create the health problems that we hear about. It is a good insulating product and used correctly is harmless to the public. Those that work with it must wear appropriate PPE same as fiberglass insulation.

As long as nobody disturbs asbestos everything will be fine. The second asbestos is disturbed it becomes airborne and stays airborne and can be inhaled. By disturbed I mean the second somebody scrapes the wall, hangs a light fixture, does a renovation, etc. Only a fool would wear common safety masks when dealing with asbestos. There is a huge difference between chrysotile (asbestos) fibers and fiberglass fibers.

Don't be fooled Tax, the asbestos mined in Canada is the bad stuff.

BTW... I have a dog in this fight. I've been exposed to asbestos while I was in my 20's while working in steam tunnels. In the course of our work it was almost unavoidable disturbing the stuff. I've been to asbestos training and classes because I used to work around it. The thing about asbestos is that it has a huge latency period from exposure to full blown cancer (mesothelioma). The microscopic crystals sit in your lungs and cannot be ejected. The body begins to engage the crystals as a foreign object and badabing. My Dad is battling with the stuff as we speak...yes asbestos poisoning.
 
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EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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The big problem for Quebec is: What will the people of Thetford and Asbestos and the like do? The mines mean work.

That's true. In our training we saw Asbestos, Canada and heard interviews from the people. They knew it was bad stuff and they are exposed to it more than anyone. Basically they said...

"What are we to do?"

One miner even lost a 9 year old son to mesothelioma due to him bringing it home on his clothes. The stuff is so darn tiny and it does not take much. It all depends on how your body reacts to it. Your body could flip out on it right away, or wait 20, 30, 40 years.
 

Mowich

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Dec 25, 2005
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Living close to a one-industry town, I know what the loss of the mines would mean to the people of those communities.

Yes, asbestos is harmful. Yes, it should be banned, but before we start the letter writing campaigns, how about figuring out what those communities will do once the mines are gone.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Vernon, B.C.
Living close to a one-industry town, I know what the loss of the mines would mean to the people of those communities.

Yes, asbestos is harmful. Yes, it should be banned, but before we start the letter writing campaigns, how about figuring out what those communities will do once the mines are gone.

Yep, and learn the safe ways of using and handling asbestos and what protective gear to use and USE it. :smile:
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Living close to a one-industry town, I know what the loss of the mines would mean to the people of those communities.

Yes, asbestos is harmful. Yes, it should be banned, but before we start the letter writing campaigns, how about figuring out what those communities will do once the mines are gone.

That is the same with any factory, mining, etc. town. It's what they know and all they know. It's what puts the food on the table and the kids through school. Jobs is the only reason why asbestos is mined and exported from Canada, I am sure of it.
 

Mowich

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That is the same with any factory, mining, etc. town. It's what they know and all they know. It's what puts the food on the table and the kids through school. Jobs is the only reason why asbestos is mined and exported from Canada, I am sure of it.

That and the obvious demand for it by poorer countries, EagleSmack.

It is all fine and well to talk of these things but we should not forget the economic impact that banning would have on both Quebec and the countries that now purchase asbestos. As was pointed out in another reply, the cost of using an alternative is probably the main reason we are still exporting because the demand is still there and will be for the foreseeable future, considering the state the world's economies.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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From my understanding, asbestos is considered so dangerous that its use is banned in Canada, yet we export it to other countries.

If this is the case, how can we tolerate this?

The asbestos industry is practically entirely in the province of Quebec.

Next question??
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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That and the obvious demand for it by poorer countries, EagleSmack.

It is all fine and well to talk of these things but we should not forget the economic impact that banning would have on both Quebec and the countries that now purchase asbestos. As was pointed out in another reply, the cost of using an alternative is probably the main reason we are still exporting because the demand is still there and will be for the foreseeable future, considering the state the world's economies.

The demand is high because it is cheap and it works so well.

The economic impact to Quebec may be felt but if Canada does not sell it to those countries, Russia, China, Khazakhstan, etc. will. There is no shortage of asbestos in the world. Russia supplies 40% of the world's asbestos and Canada about 10% or 13%.

It comes down to jobs IMO. If Canada doesn't mine and export it someone else will. Canada banning asbestos will only hurt themselves economically. Meanwhile the stuff is deadly and there is no disputing that. It may not blow someones head off but for those who eventually get it, a slow and painful death via lung cancer is what is in store.
 

taxslave

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BTW... I have a dog in this fight. I've been exposed to asbestos while I was in my 20's while working in steam tunnels. In the course of our work it was almost unavoidable disturbing the stuff. I've been to asbestos training and classes because I used to work around it. The thing about asbestos is that it has a huge latency period from exposure to full blown cancer (mesothelioma). The microscopic crystals sit in your lungs and cannot be ejected. The body begins to engage the crystals as a foreign object and badabing. My Dad is battling with the stuff as we speak...yes asbestos poisoning.
I said I don't know how much of what they claim is believable. I know it makes better brake linings than what we are using now. I must have relined a thousand truck brakes and several hundred on yarders and loaders. WE never had any protection then.I have a friend did 26yrs. in the navy engine rooms. He is now 70 and so far so good. They would put a cigarette package over their coffee cups to keep the asbestos out.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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So long as it's being sold to China, I say give'er. it's just desserts for the toxic crap they send us.

she says with no hint of seriousness


And do you think that the asbestos sold to China will stay there and not come back in some product in Canadian stores?
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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It amazes me, pleasantly I might add. That many here recognize the fact that a good many people rely on those mines to feed their families, and make a living. In many cases, it's all they've ever known.

Many of you have balanced a need for health and safety with the very real impact on those communities, I take my hat off to all that have.

Now, this begs me to ask the question. Where is this recognition and compassion, when it comes to the oil sector and how these people are heavily impacted by climate change policies. Hell, how about how those policies impact everyone, no matter what industry they work in?
 

EagleSmack

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I said I don't know how much of what they claim is believable. I know it makes better brake linings than what we are using now. I must have relined a thousand truck brakes and several hundred on yarders and loaders. WE never had any protection then.I have a friend did 26yrs. in the navy engine rooms. He is now 70 and so far so good. They would put a cigarette package over their coffee cups to keep the asbestos out.

I hear you Tax. I bet if I made a living in Asbestos Mining I'd see asbestos through rose colored glasses as well.

With regards to brake linings et all... well asbestos makes better EVERYTHING.

My Dad is in his 70's and it was at 74 when the stuff came to surface with him. He needs bottled O2 to breathe now. He was lucky. A friend of mine lost his Dad to Mesothelioma in his 50's. His dad was not so lucky. Both of them were in the building trades through the 1950's to 1970's when asbestos was sprayed around all over the place and used everywhere. They used to make snowballs with the stuff and throw it at each other.

And do you think that the asbestos sold to China will stay there and not come back in some product in Canadian stores?

I doubt Canada sells asbestos to China. China is the second largest exporter of the stuff.
 

L Gilbert

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1st off, asbestos is NOT banned, it is restricted.
2. If handled safely it is not a threat.
3. It is unique because there isn't another substance with the same characteristics.
4. In my experience as both a firefighter and having to deal with asbestos in buildings and as a mechanic having to deal with it in brake pads/shoes, clutch disks, etc. asbestos is not as bad as the media and panic mongers portray it to be.
5. There is a great alternative to asbestos in many applications; it's called glass.