Quebec students demand free tuition

[taxslave]

We're all free loaders at some point. A logical question is why is post-secondary not covered like primary and secondary education? Post-secondary education of some sort is pretty much a requirement for most jobs these days.

The corollary is if it makes sense to pay for colleges/universities/trade schools, then why not for elementary and high school? I'd personally like to see some objective analysis of the status quo versus what the Quebec students are asking and alternatively if all education became unsubsidized, with costs and benefits included.

Post secondary education is at least partly paid for except possibly at some private institutions. What the students pay is only a portion of the cost. While I can see the benefit of us paying for studying medicine and engineering and trades. I am against taxpayers paying for someone to study things like french literature. I am also against us paying for someone to go to school just because they don't want to get a job.

 

[darkbeaver]

Children are our most precious resource they said.

 

[Tonington]

I am against taxpayers paying for someone to study things like french literature. I am also against us paying for someone to go to school just because they don't want to get a job.

Well, as you already said, you are paying for it.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

We're all free loaders at some point. A logical question is why is post-secondary not covered like primary and secondary education? Post-secondary education of some sort is pretty much a requirement for most jobs these days.

The corollary is if it makes sense to pay for colleges/universities/trade schools, then why not for elementary and high school? I'd personally like to see some objective analysis of the status quo versus what the Quebec students are asking and alternatively if all education became unsubsidized, with costs and benefits included.

If you don't pay for your education, the stuff that counts, you don't appreciate it. Ever wonder why a high school degree is worth **** now? It's because they are rubber stamped to whoever doesn't quit. If post-secondary is free, the same lack of standards will apply and the degree will be just as useless.

Perhaps if you get 75%+ average you can get a rebate on your tuition. They higher the grade, the more the rebate. 100% will be 100% free. But no no-zero policies or no child left behind crap.

 

[CDNBear]

If you don't pay for your education, the stuff that counts, you don't appreciate it. Ever wonder why a high school degree is worth **** now? It's because they are rubber stamped to whoever doesn't quit. If post-secondary is free, the same lack of standards will apply and the degree will be just as useless.

Perhaps if you get 75%+ average you can get a rebate on your tuition. They higher the grade, the more the rebate. 100% will be 100% free. But no no-zero policies or no child left behind crap.

There are a couple Scandinavian countries making good with it.

 

[Tonington]

If you don't pay for your education, the stuff that counts, you don't appreciate it. Ever wonder why a high school degree is worth **** now? It's because they are rubber stamped to whoever doesn't quit. If post-secondary is free, the same lack of standards will apply and the degree will be just as useless.

That's arguable. I know plenty of people whose education was paid for entirely by their parents. It's disingenuous to say they don't appreciate both what they received and the fact that they didn't pay for it. It's not clear at all that free education means standards will slide. Norway has free university, even for foreigners who go to study there. Norway is highly competitive with research in many fields, mine for example. Germany, also very cheap, little to no tuition. Germany is one of the best international performers in science and R&D.

This notion that education quality and outcomes are a function of personal costs is dubious.

What about someone like myself? My employer will pay for my education. I can get a Masters degree, paid for entirely by the corporation I work for. Do you think this means I will appreciate it less than if I paid for it myself? Hardly. Though it does mean I can stress out more over timelines than about my finances.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

What about someone like myself? My employer will pay for my education. I can get a Masters degree, paid for entirely by the corporation I work for. Do you think this means I will appreciate it less than if I paid for it myself? Hardly. Though it does mean I can stress out more over timelines than about my finances.

I assume you would be accountable to your employer for your Master's degree performance?

 

[Tonington]

I assume you would be accountable to your employer for your Master's degree performance?

They only require passing grades. I'm sure university/college/trade school students would be thrilled if they could get free education so long as they don't fail. I would have.

 

[Goober]

They only require passing grades. I'm sure university/college/trade school students would be thrilled if they could get free education so long as they don't fail. I would have.

Do you have any problems with increasing the pass mark when it is funded by the public.

 

[Tonington]

Do you have any problems with increasing the pass mark when it is funded by the public.

Yes, the pass mark should stay at whatever the school wants it at. A threshold for free education, above that of just passing grades would have been fine by me.

 

[darkbeaver]

brains before bucks, if you don't pass the entrance requirements you don't sit

 

[PoliticalNick]

Yes, the pass mark should stay at whatever the school wants it at. A threshold for free education, above that of just passing grades would have been fine by me.

The passing grade is too low right now anyway for a lot of things. High school is the worst. My girlfriend's son was passed with 48% last year in 1 subject. When we questioned the school they said 45 is a pass now. I asked the teacher & principle if they would mind if their heart surgeon passed with a 45?

When I got my gas fitter's license back in the mid 80s it required 85% on the classroom work and 90% on the govt exam. Today it is 70% & 75%. Who cares if you blow up 25% of the things you work on.

 

[taxslave]

They only require passing grades. I'm sure university/college/trade school students would be thrilled if they could get free education so long as they don't fail. I would have.

Trade school is basically free. For many there is even a paycheque in it. It is in the employer's best interest to have a knowledgeable workforce. But they only study areas related to their work not feel good courses.

 

[Walter]

Give them fee tuition but reduce the number accepted by 90% and make the standards to get in so tough that only the brightest and best get in.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Give them fee tuition but reduce the number accepted by 90% and make the standards to get in so tough that only the brightest and best get in.

The problem there is that those top 10% really are smart enough to learn it on their own and the ones who need to be taught are left out. Great way to dumb-down the population but only the govt, and you it would seem, wants a country of uneducated citizens.

 

[JLM]

Trade school is basically free. For many there is even a paycheque in it. It is in the employer's best interest to have a knowledgeable workforce. But they only study areas related to their work not feel good courses.

Yeah, there's not a hell of a lot of demand in the trades for that Under water basket weaving! :smile:

 

[PoliticalNick]

Yeah, there's not a hell of a lot of demand in the trades for that Under water basket weaving! :smile:

Aww, F*ck....I just enrolled in that...;-)

 

[Walter]

The problem there is that those top 10% really are smart enough to learn it on their own and the ones who need to be taught are left out. Great way to dumb-down the population but only the govt, and you it would seem, wants a country of uneducated citizens.

Having been to university and having a child there now I know that most of the students are not good material to work with and are wasting their time and my money.

 

[Niflmir]

Give them fee tuition but reduce the number accepted by 90% and make the standards to get in so tough that only the brightest and best get in.

You could go with the Netherlands model: first 5 years are free. After that you pay, and oh, you pay. Also, pay is directly proportional to experience by law in the Netherlands. So you pay for education in lost salary as well. Obviously there are other issues at play, but between an educated burger flipper and the uneducated one, the one working straight out of high school makes more money.

Or the German model, where Universities are government run, professors are forbidden from striking, tuition is cheap, and the Germans often take part time studies while working.

Almost anything is better than artificial demand fueled by a government driven student loan bubble.

 

[Locutus]

They demand it?

In my book, there is significant difference between a demand and a request.

Demand? Fuk you. How's that. :lol: