Poll:- life better now or in 1959?

[SirJosephPorter]

Wrong again on most counts. Heart patients do indeed die in their sleep at age 84, same with cancer patients.

They can die in their sleep JLM, so can anybody. However many times cancer or heart patients suffer unspeakable agonies, unbearable pain. And that is even with proper medication. They can die painful, lingering death, even with treatment. That doesn’t happen with diabetes. With proper care and insulin, a diabetic does not suffer any symptoms, he can almost always live a normal life. Same cannot be said of cancer or heart attack.

So I wouldn’t call diabetes a disease.

 

[AnnaG]

Back in the days when young people were all law abiding, delightful children, I guess.

I don't recall anyone saying kids were law abiding in those days. AAMOF, someone mentioned James Dean earlier. Sneaking into a movie theater is as bad as a load of kids with Mac-11s and Uzis doing drive-by shootings, murdering women in a college, people at malls etc.? You sure have an odd sense of scale.

 

[AnnaG]

But of course they were, Tenpenny. They were nice little kids, who did not disobey the adults, who did not say anything against any adult. They were so well behaved that they wouldn’t say a word even when sexually abused by the Catholic Priests, such things just were not talked about in public. And even if they told their parent, the parents probably wouldn’t believe them anyway, the kid probably would get a whipping for telling tales.

So you are saying there were bad kids back then, too? I agree. Not to the same degree as these days, though. Kids back then may have carried a knife, but kids today pack sidearms and are not as hesitant about using the sidearms.
Are you saying priests back then molested kids and they don't molest kids today?
"Ah, whatta maroon" B. Bunny

 

[Cliffy]

I have a friend (and know several others) whose life style is severely hampered by diabetes. He has lost part of one foot and half his leg to gangrene as a direct result of diabetes. He has to be on dialysis at least three times a week because of kidney failure. He used to have to travel to Kelowna (a 4 hour drive) three times a week, A couple of years ago he got a home dialysis kit so now he doesn't have to make that drive any more. The prosthesis he has to wear causes a perpetual sores on his stump that make getting around more and more painful. It was excruciating to watch him leaving the coffee shop this morning. He used to be a very large man but now he has lost all his muscles (about 50 - 60 lbs) to inactivity.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I have a friend (and know several others) whose life style is severely hampered by diabetes. He has lost part of one foot and half his leg to gangrene as a direct result of diabetes. He has to be on dialysis at least three times a week because of kidney failure. He used to have to travel to Kelowna (a 4 hour drive) three times a week, A couple of years ago he got a home dialysis kit so now he doesn't have to make that drive any more. The prosthesis he has to wear causes a perpetual sores on his stump that make getting around more and more painful. It was excruciating to watch him leaving the coffee shop this morning. He used to be a very large man but now he has lost all his muscles (about 50 - 60 lbs) to inactivity.

And why did that happen, Cliffy? My guess would be that he did not get the regular dose of insulin, which he should have received, for whatever reasons. Gangrene is the most common side effect of diabetes. Since blood is rich in sugar, rich in nutrients, it can promote growth of all kinds of bacteria leading to the rotting of the flesh.

Indeed, if you go to third world, you will see many horror stories due to diabetes, limbs lost to gangrene, blindness and much more. But all that stems from the fact that sugar was not properly regulated, insulin was not properly administered, when it should have been.

 

[TenPenny]

News flash for you S.J.- Obese people ARE dropping dead in the streets. As for diabetes, you are getting into semantics (my nephew has diabetes bad) what difference does it make if it's an illness, disease, malady or malfunction, these people are not completely well, their lives are in jeopardy and generally are shortened, it is only by intensive monitoring and strict attention to diet and exercise that they have a chance at normal lifestyle and longevity.

Being obese is a lifestyle choice, so a discussion about obesity now vs 1959 is no more worthwhile than comparing the options available on a Cadillac now and then.

 

[countryboy]

They can die in their sleep JLM, so can anybody. However many times cancer or heart patients suffer unspeakable agonies, unbearable pain. And that is even with proper medication. They can die painful, lingering death, even with treatment. That doesn’t happen with diabetes. With proper care and insulin, a diabetic does not suffer any symptoms, he can almost always live a normal life. Same cannot be said of cancer or heart attack.

So I wouldn’t call diabetes a disease.

Thank you for your opinion, Dr. Porter. Another "disease" (or perhaps I should say "condition") that seems to be emerging in '09 but wasn't evident to me in '59 is the I.K.E.A.Y.D.S.T.I.R.A.Y.W. syndrome. ("I Know Everything And You Don't So Therefore I'm Right And You're Wrong")

To me, it indicates a high degree of extreme intolerance for other's people's feelings and opinions, and it appears to be gaining in strength in the society of '09. I see it "on the streets", in politics, and even in one-on-one social situations. Too bad, really.

But it's just another reminder that life was more pleasant back in '59...:-|

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Being obese is a lifestyle choice, so a discussion about obesity now vs 1959 is no more worthwhile than comparing the options available on a Cadillac now and then.

Quite , and that is why the warning about obesity issued by the medical profession (and it is a very real problem) is a cautionary note, it is not a done deal. Obesity is a lifestyle choice and so can be overcome with proper education and proper dietary habits.

So it is disingenuous to claim that obesity has already lowered life expectancy, nothing of the sort, I haven’t seen any figures to that effect. If nothing is done about obesity, it may result in lower life expectancy in future, but that is a big ‘if’.

 

[AnnaG]

You got that right JLM, I never respond to anything Anna says, it is just a waste of time. I have got better things to do than to get into shouting match involving personal insults, personal abuse with anybody here.

roflmao You just don't reply because I show everyone how little you know, Mr. PhD Engineer who didn't even know light speed isn't constant because it depends on the medium it travels through. lmao
I produce evidence. You produce opinion because that's all you are capable of.

These ‘2 or 3 things’ that you claim are as follows:

• life expectancy – much greater today.

• It's just longer.

• health – much better today

  In some areas. I bet there is more obesity and at younger ages than there was in 1959.

Blinkered parents fuel childhood obesity, says report | Society | guardian.co.uk

Childhood Obesity has Skyrocketed in Recent Decades : Videos on Healthline.com

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=afhQXmQOjVag

• personal income – much higher today

  While the ratio of disposable income to gross income is noticeably reduced. So what?

• living comforts – much better and widespread toady

  Not for people in Ethiopia and other places.

• standard of living - much higher today

  Not in plaqces like Ethiopia and others.

• scientific knowledge - much more advanced today

  ... and still we haven't solved world hunger, cancer, etc.

• Technological innovations – we have technology today which was not even dreamed of 50 years ago, such as microwave, oven, cell phone, computer, DVD and many more.

  and much more things that end up in landfills, in the oceans, and keep people from actually dealing with each other face-to-face.

• racial tolerance – much more widespread today – 50 years ago it was routine, customary to discriminate against women, against blacks, to lock up gays for being homosexual etc. These days they have Charter protection. As a result,

  Really? Remember Rwanda? Remember Darfur? The Tamils?

• Civil society - much more humane, more civilized more fair today.

  In a few spots on the planet. But no more than before.

Now, maybe to you these things mean very little, you probably have some fond memories of the ‘good old days’ (and being a white male, you probably did have it easy in the old days, these days white males have to compete with minorities on equal terms). You are entitled to your opinion. However that is not what we find objectively.

Now, maybe you are all nice and comfy, well-fed, healthy, living in a peacefuul neighborhood, etc. But not everyone is. Canada is not the entire world. For someone who claims to have traveled a lot, you sure have a tiny little world.

 

[countryboy]

Well, here it is. The healthy life expectancy (without a serious disease) is 68.3 years for men, 70.8 years for women.

Life Expectancy at Birth / Health / Indicators of Well-being in Canada

That was roughly ALL the life expectancy in 1959.

Life Expectancy by Age, 1850–2004 — Infoplease.com

I don’t think they have statistics for healthy life expectancy for 1959. But unless you assume that they did not get any serious diseases in 1959, that people were perfectly healthy until they reached 68 or 70 years of age and all of a sudden they dropped dead after that, it stands to reason that healthy life expectancy is also greater today than in 1959.

I had not posted this before, so I am posting now. As to the rest of the statistics, sorry, I can’t do the same work twice. I have already posted numbers for personal income etc. in this very thread. You can either go back and hunt for it, Google for it yourself, or go on assuming that people were rich 50 years ago and are paupers today. It is all the same to me.


[/left]

"As to the rest of the statistics, sorry, I can’t do the same work twice."

Oh, please don't apologize...it's very unbecoming. Don't worry, I didn't really expect you to respond to my requests for any proof and you have met my expectations perfectly.

Which leaves me no alernative but to restate my opinion that life was better in '59 because - among all other reasons stated in this thread (and I see no reason to go back and find them) - debates among groups of adults were conducted with a higher degree of civility and respect for others' opinions and positions, shall we say, a "gentlemenly fashion."

Too bad we've lost that some of that human touch of warmth and kindness in '09.

 

[AnnaG]

It also means more take home pay compared to 50 years ago, JLM. It also means higher standard of living today.

?? BS. Tax freedom day was what in 1959? March something? What is it today? Middle of June? 'Ah, whatta maroon" B. Bunny

 

[countryboy]

Now, maybe you are all nice and comfy, well-fed, healthy, living in a peacefuul neighborhood, etc. But not everyone is. Canada is not the entire world. For someone who claims to have traveled a lot, you sure have a tiny little world.[/quote]

Uh, I certainly agree with you on everything in your post, AnnaG, and most especially your point the neighborhood issue. There are many people in this country that are suffering from poverty, illness, discrimination of one kind or another, and a general feeling of suffering and despair. "Some people" think that our beloved Charter has addressed all our problems and everything in '09 is just ducky.

Mind you, when one only sees what they choose to see, it is impossible to get a fix on the reality of any situation. Or maybe it's just a case of "ignorance is bliss."

 

[AnnaG]

Being obese is a lifestyle choice, so a discussion about obesity now vs 1959 is no more worthwhile than comparing the options available on a Cadillac now and then.

Well then comparing technological advances isn't quite kosher then either because the obesity factor is one of the direct results of technological advancement.

 

[AnnaG]

They can die in their sleep JLM, so can anybody. However many times cancer or heart patients suffer unspeakable agonies, unbearable pain. And that is even with proper medication. They can die painful, lingering death, even with treatment. That doesn’t happen with diabetes. With proper care and insulin, a diabetic does not suffer any symptoms, he can almost always live a normal life. Same cannot be said of cancer or heart attack.

So I wouldn’t call diabetes a disease.

The CDC disagrees with you:

CDC - Chronic Disease - Diabetes - At A Glance

Besides, who gives a crap whether it is or not, it's a cause or it aggravates several diseases.

 

[TenPenny]

"Some people" think that our beloved Charter has addressed all our problems and everything in '09 is just ducky.

I certainly don't think that, but I am a firm believer that, overall, life today is better than in 1959.

You may have a different opinion, you're welcome to it.

 

[Cliffy]

6/half a dozen of the other. Some things are better, some worser. In 59 I was young, healthy and full of beans. Now I am a basket case!8O

 

[AnnaG]

Now, maybe you are all nice and comfy, well-fed, healthy, living in a peacefuul neighborhood, etc. But not everyone is. Canada is not the entire world. For someone who claims to have traveled a lot, you sure have a tiny little world.[/quote]

Uh, I certainly agree with you on everything in your post, AnnaG, and most especially your point the neighborhood issue. There are many people in this country that are suffering from poverty, illness, discrimination of one kind or another, and a general feeling of suffering and despair. "Some people" think that our beloved Charter has addressed all our problems and everything in '09 is just ducky.

Mind you, when one only sees what they choose to see, it is impossible to get a fix on the reality of any situation. Or maybe it's just a case of "ignorance is bliss."

It might be the "ignorance is bliss" thing, but I think it's a conscious, practised, and complacent stubbornness to stick to ignorance. I believe it is one of the cardinal sins actually, for those who believe in sins, it's called vanity.

 

[AnnaG]

6/half a dozen of the other. Some things are better, some worser.

Pretty much.

 

[JLM]

I have a friend (and know several others) whose life style is severely hampered by diabetes. He has lost part of one foot and half his leg to gangrene as a direct result of diabetes. He has to be on dialysis at least three times a week because of kidney failure. He used to have to travel to Kelowna (a 4 hour drive) three times a week, A couple of years ago he got a home dialysis kit so now he doesn't have to make that drive any more. The prosthesis he has to wear causes a perpetual sores on his stump that make getting around more and more painful. It was excruciating to watch him leaving the coffee shop this morning. He used to be a very large man but now he has lost all his muscles (about 50 - 60 lbs) to inactivity.

Now we are getting to the reality, I knew a man years ago who went blind within a year or so of being diagnosed with diabetes and was dead within five years after that- a very young man in his 40s. My nephew has it relatively easy, just has to stick himself in the belly about 4 times a day to get a blood sugar reading- (if that is a normal life) On second thought I guess it is normal as long as it's happening to someone else.

 

[JLM]

Thank you for your opinion, Dr. Porter. Another "disease" (or perhaps I should say "condition") that seems to be emerging in '09 but wasn't evident to me in '59 is the I.K.E.A.Y.D.S.T.I.R.A.Y.W. syndrome. ("I Know Everything And You Don't So Therefore I'm Right And You're Wrong")

To me, it indicates a high degree of extreme intolerance for other's people's feelings and opinions, and it appears to be gaining in strength in the society of '09. I see it "on the streets", in politics, and even in one-on-one social situations. Too bad, really.

But it's just another reminder that life was more pleasant back in '59...:-|

So, several have pointed out but I'm not sure if it's penetrating.............:lol::lol::lol::lol: