Poll:- life better now or in 1959?

[JLM]

OK JLM, let us compare. Today a brand new car would go for around 30,000 $, which is ten times the good old days. If you earned 300$ per month in those days, ten times that would be around 3000$ per month today. Would you earn more than that today? You probably would.

Average per capita income of Canada was 40,090 $ in 2008.

Economy of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you are any good at all, you would earn more that the average, which means somebody with reasonable education and experience should be able to draw around 45,000 $, no problem. This compares with the 300$ you were earning.

What this means is that even with car costing ten times as much, you can afford a new car more easily than you could 50 years ago.

Same with gas. While your salary would go up by a factor of more than 10, gas has gone up by a factor of less than 10. What this means is that gas is cheaper today than 50 years ago, relative to peoples' income.

Incidentally, same with milk and bread. Both are cheaper today than 50 years ago, relative to peoples' income.

Not germane to the argument. To live in an acceptable fashion today, is a lot more than just transposing figures from 1959. In '59 the only means of communication were mail and phone, now there are computer expenses (if you want to function in the real world) There's extra laws that have to be complied with, we used to get rid of our garbage for free, dump it at the local dump- not anymore. If we wanted to add a room to our house, be bought the lumber and built it- at least in rural areas, nows there's a ton of red tape and half a mile of fine print and licenses, all of which have a price tag. But having said that your world seems to be all about money, well, mine isn't.

 

[lone wolf]

Relative to your statistically average income ... but probably NOT to a minimum wage reality

 

[Ron in Regina]

OK JLM, let us compare. Today a brand new car would go for around 30,000 $, which is ten times the good old days. If you earned 300$ per month in those days, ten times that would be around 3000$ per month today. Would you earn more than that today? You probably would.

Average per capita income of Canada was 40,090 $ in 2008.

Economy of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you are any good at all, you would earn more that the average, which means somebody with reasonable education and experience should be able to draw around 45,000 $, no problem. This compares with the 300$ you were earning.

What this means is that even with car costing ten times as much, you can afford a new car more easily than you could 50 years ago.

Same with gas. While your salary would go up by a factor of more than 10, gas has gone up by a factor of less than 10. What this means is that gas is cheaper today than 50 years ago, relative to peoples' income.

Incidentally, same with milk and bread. Both are cheaper today than 50 years ago, relative to peoples' income.

50yrs ago....JLM might not have been at the Average per capita income
just yet, as I'm assuming he was pretty early off in his career, whatever
that might have been...as far as a reasonable education & experience
go....and to compare that to a Canadian Average per capita for the
entire workforce in 2008....whatever....That's for JLM to answer.

An Average takes in the low and the extremely high, to come out with what
is assumed as a number in the middle of the population for an income, but
I'm assuming the demographic is more like a pyramid to compensate for
the extreme high end of incomes in the top 2% or so....so with that in mind,
the bulk of the population will reside below that Average per capita income.

 

[Ron in Regina]

There will be a lot of folks in the bottom 1/2 to balance out CEO's & COO's
and Presidents of companies like Potash Corp with 7 or 8 figure salaries...
It looks good on paper though....:-|

 

[SirJosephPorter]

OK Ron, you don’t like the average. Then how about the median income? Median means 50% are above it, 50% below it. Let us compare the median income:

1959 – 32079 $

2006 – 59407 $

Increase of whopping 85% in just 47 years. These are in terms of 2007 dollars, so are corrected for inflation.

Historical Income Tables - Families

So look at it either way, median, mean or whatever, we are much richer, moor prosperous today compared to 50 year ago.

 

[Ron in Regina]

For example, one guy earning $14,500,000 annually would have to be weighed
off against about 725 other people earning about $20,000 annually to come
close to that 2008 Average per capita income...This is an extreme example to
get the idea of a pyramid across with respect to my comment above....

....That doesn't mean that those 725 other people don't have a reasonable
education & experience n whatever fields they're in....but just offering perspective.

 

[Ron in Regina]

OK Ron, you don’t like the average. Then how about the median income? Median means 50% are above it, 50% below it. Let us compare the median income:

1959 – 32079 $

2006 – 59407 $

Increase of whopping 85% in just 47 years. These are in terms of 2007 dollars, so are corrected for inflation.

Historical Income Tables - Families

So look at it either way, median, mean or whatever, we are much richer, moor prosperous today compared to 50 year ago.

If the median income has increased by 85%, and the average new car had
increased in price 10 fold....I'm not sure which side of the discussion you're
advocating for now. :-?

A new car in 1959 at $3,000 x an 85% increase would be $5,550.00 today?
A new pair of Jeans in 1959 at $5.00 x an 85% increase woud be $9.25 today?
A Gallon of Gasoline in 1959 at $0.40 x an 85% increase would be $0.74 today?

I'm pay'n more than that....8O :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Ron in Regina]

In 1959, a new 1000sq.ft Bungalow was about $8,000 -$9,000 or so....&
one person working full-time doing just about anything could qualify for a
mortgage on that....and that same home, even 50 years old has appreciated
more than 85%, let alone a new home of a comparable size....and odds are
that one person alone isn't going to qualify for that mortgage on that 1/2
century old home now....

Yes, health care has come a long way, and minds are generally more open,
but I'm not being sold on the income vrs items thing....

I'm going to assume that Utility prices have gone up more than 85% in the
last 50yrs too. I'm talking about power & energy & water & phone bills. Just
the basic stuff. Currently my Power & Energy & Water bills (equalized Monthly)
are about $350.00 every month (& that's not including the phone, etc...). I doubt
very much that those same three Utilities would have cost me $350/85%=$189.19
or so every month in 1959.

I think I'm completely misunderstanding the idea that you're trying to get across....

 

[JLM]

50yrs ago....JLM might not have been at the Average per capita income
just yet, as I'm assuming he was pretty early off in his career, whatever
that might have been...as far as a reasonable education & experience
go....and to compare that to a Canadian Average per capita for the
entire workforce in 2008....whatever....That's for JLM to answer.

An Average takes in the low and the extremely high, to come out with what
is assumed as a number in the middle of the population for an income, but
I'm assuming the demographic is more like a pyramid to compensate for
the extreme high end of incomes in the top 2% or so....so with that in mind,
the bulk of the population will reside below that Average per capita income.

Hi Ron- now we are starting to see some rational thinking. In 1963 I was near the bottom of the pay scale (making about 60% of what I would eventually earn on the scale) I was single, I had no responsibilities except to my boss and my biggest expense was beer. I could in no way transpose that into my situation even 10 years later or I'd be a "dead duck" with my wife as my beneficiary. Merry Xmas to you and yours.

 

[JLM]

OK Ron, you don’t like the average. Then how about the median income? Median means 50% are above it, 50% below it. Let us compare the median income:

1959 – 32079 $

2006 – 59407 $

Increase of whopping 85% in just 47 years. These are in terms of 2007 dollars, so are corrected for inflation.

Historical Income Tables - Families

So look at it either way, median, mean or whatever, we are much richer, moor prosperous today compared to 50 year ago.

You just do not seem to grasp- statistics don't count in the real world, and what may apply to one person doesn't apply to others. I honestly beieve (going by my first premise, that you are capable of meaningful thinking) that you are just deliberately being obtuse-
Anna has explained things to you in a patient manner ad infinitum as has CB, Ron and myself. Like I said 50 years ago my main concern and expense was beer............that won't fly in my household today.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

If the median income has increased by 85%, and the average new car had
increased in price 10 fold....I'm not sure which side of the discussion you're
advocating for now. :-?

A new car in 1959 at $3,000 x an 85% increase would be $5,550.00 today?
A new pair of Jeans in 1959 at $5.00 x an 85% increase woud be $9.25 today?
A Gallon of Gasoline in 1959 at $0.40 x an 85% increase would be $0.74 today?

I'm pay'n more than that....8O :lol::lol::lol:

Here you are not allowing for inflation, Ron. That is why one has to be careful in comparing like with like, that is why the numbers I quoted were all reduced to 2007 dollars. The numbers you have quoted are all in different years, cannot be compared to each other. It is like comparing apple to oranges.

e.g. a car would be 5550 of 1959 dollars today, how much is that in terms of today’s dollars? You cannot compare 5550 to 30,000 $ (the cost of car today), that is nonsense. 5550 are 1959 dollars, 30,000 are 2009 dollars. Where is the inflation?

I will see if I can pluck out the inflation numbers from literature. I am sure it will show that car is cheaper today compared to 1959, relative to today’s earnings.

But again, be careful when you compare dollars form one year to dollars from another rear, they must be reduced to a common denominator, must be corrected for inflation.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

OK Ron, here are the numbers. Inflation since 1959 has been 7.43. One dollar in 1959 bought 7.43 dollars worth today.

Inflation Calculator- Other- Rates and Statistics- Bank of Canada

So 3000 $, the price of the car in 1959 dollars would be the same as 7.43 X 3000 = 22296 dollars today.

So in terms of today’s dollars, car cost 22296 dollars 50 years ago, it costs 30,000 $ today. Now we are comparing like with like, we are not comparing apples to oranges.

Now, the income in 1959 was 32079 $, today it is 59407 $. That means that in 1959, car cost 22296/32079 = 69.5 % of annual salary.

Today, the car would cost 30000/59407 = 50% of annual salary.

Cars are much cheaper today than 50 years ago, when you look relative to the earnings.

 

[lone wolf]

The point is ... it's an opinion poll. Is that the part you can't understand? ...the disagreement with your exalted words?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You just do not seem to grasp- statistics don't count in the real world, and what may apply to one person doesn't apply to others. I honestly beieve (going by my first premise, that you are capable of meaningful thinking) that you are just deliberately being obtuse-
Anna has explained things to you in a patient manner ad infinitum as has CB, Ron and myself. Like I said 50 years ago my main concern and expense was beer............that won't fly in my household today.

Statistics may not mean anything to you JLM, but that is the only meaningful evidence, not personal opinion.

And for the last time, I don’t care what Anna says, I only scan her posts for abusive language (and usually there is plenty) and report it.

As to Ron, I have explained things to him, he did engage me on the issue of numbers.

Your personal opinion is your own and I respect that. However, statistical evidence is the only objective evidence, and that is what I sue to form my opinion, not somebody’s personal opinion.

Anyway, gotta go. Merry Christmas to you (and you too, Ron). Bye.

 

[lone wolf]

Statistics may not mean anything to you JLM, but that is the only meaningful evidence, not personal opinion.

And for the last time, I don’t care what Anna says, I only scan her posts for abusive language (and usually there is plenty) and report it.

As to Ron, I have explained things to him, he did engage me on the issue of numbers.

Your personal opinion is your own and I respect that. However, statistical evidence is the only objective evidence, and that is what I sue to form my opinion, not somebody’s personal opinion.

Anyway, gotta go. Merry Christmas to you (and you too, Ron). Bye.

Then why do you even bother to come into discussion forums?

 

[Ron in Regina]

OK Ron, here are the numbers. Inflation since 1959 has been 7.43. One dollar in 1959 bought 7.43 dollars worth today.

Inflation Calculator- Other- Rates and Statistics- Bank of Canada

So 3000 $, the price of the car in 1959 dollars would be the same as 7.43 X 3000 = 22296 dollars today.

So in terms of today’s dollars, car cost 22296 dollars 50 years ago, it costs 30,000 $ today. Now we are comparing like with like, we are not comparing apples to oranges.

Now, the income in 1959 was 32079 $, today it is 59407 $. That means that in 1959, car cost 22296/32079 = 69.5 % of annual salary.

Today, the car would cost 30000/59407 = 50% of annual salary.

Cars are much cheaper today than 50 years ago, when you look relative to the earnings.

So your math (Inflation) is also being worked in at the 7.43 to the differance in
Average (or mean, or median) income per capita also then on top of the spread
of 85% between 1959 and 47 years later in 2007 dollars?

1959 - $32,079, and 2006 - $59,407, so the spread is 85%. I get that...the numbers
I quoted came from here:

In the $300 range and I will conveniently add that bread was 20 cents a loaf, milk was 20 cents a quart, gasoline was 40 cents a gallon, a good pair of jeans was under $5.00. A brand new car was $3000.

....as 1959 predates my birth by a decade, and the cost for a three bedroom (1000sq.ft.)
bungalow comes from a Friend of mine (currently 71yrs old) who explained to me a short
while back about being able to qualify for a mortgage on his own single wage at the age
of 21....but the idea of $8,000-$9,000 of debt scared him half to death...:lol::lol::lol:

....anyway, it is Christmas Eve, & a Merry Christmas to You & Yours Too!!!

 

[JLM]

Comparing dollars is getting more futile the more I think about it. Back when I was a kid a deck of cards was a typical Xmas present from parents, trying giving cards today for a main gift, a pair of socks was another typical main gift.

 

[Cliffy]

Comparing dollars is getting more futile the more I think about it. Back when I was a kid a deck of cards was a typical Xmas present from parents, trying giving cards today for a main gift, a pair of socks was another typical main gift.

We may make more money but the cost of living has gone up much higher and faster than wages can compete with. The cost and variety of stuff to buy has increased at an astronomical rate. That is why people are way in over their heads in dept. You didn't see that level of dept in '59. People were a lot more sensible about borrowing back then too.

 

[TenPenny]

Like I said 50 years ago my main concern and expense was beer............that won't fly in my household today.

I believe we call that 'growing up'.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In the $300 range and I will conveniently add that bread was 20 cents a loaf, milk was 20 cents a quart, gasoline was 40 cents a gallon, a good pair of jeans was under $5.00. A brand new car was $3000.

JLM, that 7.43 is the magic number, let us see how much these items cost in 1959, in terms of today’s dollars:

Bread – 20 cents a loaf. That would make it 1.48$ in today’s money, not much different from today.

Milk – 20 cents a quart. That would make it 1.48$ per quart or 5.92$ a gallon. Please note that milk is much cheaper today than 50 years ago.

Gas – 40 cents a gallon, that is 2.96$ in today’s money, which is 78 cents a litre, not much different from today.

5 $ pair of jean would cost 37 $ in today’s money. I have no idea what jeans cost today, so I don’t know if it is cheap by today’s standards or not.

But adjust it for inflation, and prices don’t seem all that different from today. Then consider the fact that people make 85% more today than 50 years ago (accounting for inflation), and everything is relatively cheaper today than 50 years ago.

So 20 cents a quart milk, 5 $ for a pair of jeans may sound cheap, but it really wasn’t.