Omar Khadr....

[CDNBear]

Hmmm, I think the family has openly called on a Jihad against Canada...

Is that enough?

Free speech doesn't cover requesting violence does it?

I wonder why they haven't been brought to the OHRC?

Oh ya, free speech is only for the left now...:roll:

 

[earth_as_one]

If that allegation is proven by an objective and fair process, then that would make 15 year old Khadr guilty of treason. As a juvenile, what punishment do you think the Canadian courts would give him?

I also agree with keeping the Khadrs in Canada and watching them as carefully as possible yet staying within the law.

So let me see D, does freedom of speech only apply to people who share the same opinion as you?

What are the limits of legal behavior for people like the Khadrs who believe the US and their allies threaten millions of people and that violence is a legitimate reaction to crimes against humanity and war cimes?

 

[DurkaDurka]

If that allegation is proven by an objective and fair process, then that would make 15 year old Khadr guilty of treason. As a juvenile, what punishment do you think the Canadian courts would give him?

I also agree with keeping the Khadrs in Canada and watching them as carefully as possible yet staying within the law.

So let me see D, does freedom of speech only apply to people who share the same opinion as you?

What are the limits of legal behavior for people like the Khadrs who believe the US and their allies threaten millions of people and that violence is a legitimate reaction to crimes against humanity and war cimes?

Earth, I am fervent proponent of free speech. Travelling to enemy nations and participating in wars against our country does not cover that regardless of their jihadist beliefs.

The Khadrs are not citizens of the country they chose to set up shop in and fight. There is nothing in the charter that protects the right to "fight against your own country".

 

[CDNBear]

If that allegation is proven by an objective and fair process, then that would make 15 year old Khadr guilty of treason. As a juvenile, what punishment do you think the Canadian courts would give him?

:lol:...not a thing!!!

I also agree with keeping the Khadrs in Canada and watching them as carefully as possible yet staying within the law.

8O...I think I'ld rather them stand in front of our Troops in Afghanistan.

So let me see D, does freedom of speech only apply to people who share the same opinion as you?

C'mon Earth!!!????

What are the limits of legal behavior for people like the Khadrs who believe the US and their allies threaten millions of people and that violence is a legitimate reaction to crimes against humanity and war cimes?

We aren't talking about the US, we're talking about Canada.

 

[lone wolf]

Personally, I think anyone who uses their Canadian passport as a shield should be shot and pissed on.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Personally, I think anyone who uses their Canadian passport as a shield should be shot and pissed on.

hear, hear

 

[CDNBear]

Personally, I think anyone who uses their Canadian passport as a shield should be shot and pissed on.

I'll second that "Hear, hear" !!!!

 

[darkbeaver]

DB, I would be very surprised if you could wield a butter knife, let alone a sword or whatnot.

Do you really think people like Khadr would represent your intererests in any way?

He already did and still does. Right now he's doing hard overtime for all of us, forget his alleged crime, if he is not afforded his rights under Canadian law at some point those laws will be denied every Canadian citizen as a matter of course. That's how fascism works Durka, if they get away with denying him they sooner or later get to the rest of us. You'd be surprised what I can do with a fork.

 

[earth_as_one]

Hmmm, I think the family has openly called on a Jihad against Canada...

Is that enough?

Free speech doesn't cover requesting violence does it?

I wonder why they haven't been brought to the OHRC?

Oh ya, free speech is only for the left now...:roll:

I interpret "Jihad", as "Struggle". A struggle can be violent or non-violent. I fully support and respect the right of Canadians to peaceful jihad. Violent jihad is not a right in Canada. The Canadian government determines which violent jihads Canadians can participate in or support legally.

If these people are accused of crimes, then let a Canadian court of law determine their guilt or innocent.

In Canada, section 11(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states: "Any person charged with an offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal".

I disagree with torturing a 15 year old Canadian for six years even if he is guilty of treason, which has never been proven by a fair and objective process.

So what is it exactly people want when they agree with Khadr's treatment?

Trial by ordeal is a judicial practice by which the guilt or innocence of the accused is determined by subjecting them to a painful task. If either the task is completed without injury, or the injuries sustained are healed quickly, the accused is considered innocent.

Lynching is an extrajudicial punishment meted out by a mob.

The Salem witch trials were a series of hearings before local magistrates followed by county court trials to prosecute people accused of witchcraft in Essex, Suffolk, and Middlesex Counties of colonial Massachusetts, between February 1692 and May 1693. Over 150 people were arrested and imprisoned, with even more accused who were not formally pursued by the authorities. The two courts convicted twenty-nine people of the capital felony of witchcraft. Nineteen of the accused, fourteen women and five men, were hanged. One man who refused to enter a plea was crushed to death under heavy stones in an attempt to force him to do so. At least five more of the accused died in prison.

McCarthyism

....attempts to introduce legislation or apply existing laws to help to protect the United States from the perceived threat of Communist subversion.

The Alien Registration Act or Smith Act of 1940 made it a criminal offense for anyone to "knowingly or willfully advocate, abet, advise or teach the […] desirability or propriety of overthrowing the Government of the United States or of any State by force or violence, or for anyone to organize any association which teaches, advises or encourages such an overthrow, or for anyone to become a member of or to affiliate with any such association". Hundreds of Communists and others were prosecuted under this law between 1941 and 1957. Eleven leaders of the Communist Party were charged and convicted under the Smith Act in 1949. Ten defendants were given sentences of five years and the eleventh was sentenced to three years. All of the defense attorneys were cited for contempt of court and were also given prison sentences. In 1951, twenty-three other leaders of the party were indicted, including Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, a founding member of the American Civil Liberties Union. By 1957 over 140 leaders and members of the Communist Party had been charged under the law.[32]

Described by scholar Ellen Schrecker as "the McCarthy era's only important piece of legislation,"[33] the McCarran Internal Security Act became law in 1950 (the Smith Act technically predated McCarthyism). However, the McCarran Act had no real effect beyond legal harassment. It required the registration of Communist organizations with the Attorney General and established the Subversive Activities Control Board to investigate possible Communist-action and Communist-front organizations so they could be required to register. Due to numerous hearings, delays and appeals, the act was never enforced, even with regard to the Communist Party of the United States itself, and the major provisions of the act were found to be unconstitutional in 1965 and 1967.[34]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthy_Era#Laws_and_arrests

I think we need a new category. The current situation is some sort of htsterical fear based disregard for fundamental human rights. I'm against it.

Consider also that if Khadr was tortured with Canadian complicity, he may be entitled to compensation from the Canadian government.

 

[darkbeaver]

Let me see, Earth. Does joining a jihad against Canadian forces and interests constitute a crime or not?

There is a probably a reason why the government denies the family passports.

Show us the law he's broken Durka.

 

[darkbeaver]

Personally, I think anyone who uses their Canadian passport as a shield should be shot and pissed on.

That would be most of our diplomatic staff and most of our bussiness class and all of our tourists. A ****ing passport is by definition used as a shield, that's what it is.:smile:

 

[Just the Facts]

So basically your entire post I quoted is false and unfounded at this stage in the game, and is little more the emotional dribble based on no evidence.

There's lots of evidence. That you choose to ignore it is up to you.

 

[CDNBear]

I interpret "Jihad", as "Struggle". A struggle can be violent or non-violent. I fully support and respect the right of Canadians to peaceful jihad. Violent jihad is not a right in Canada. The Canadian government determines which violent jihads Canadians can participate in or support legally.

Struggle?

If these people are accused of crimes, then let a Canadian court of law determine their guilt or innocent.

Nope, under the UCMJ they are the responsibility of the nation that captured them.

I disagree with torturing a 15 year old Canadian for six years even if he is guilty of treason, which has never been proven by a fair and objective process.

Got any proof he was tortured?

So what is it exactly people want when they agree with Khadr's treatment?

You'ld have to prove he's been maltreated for me to answer that loaded question.

I think we need a new category. The current situation is some sort of htsterical fear based disregard for fundamental human rights. I'm against it.

See my answer to DB below.

Consider also that if Khadr was tortured with Canadian complicity, he may be entitled to compensation from the Canadian government.

Why? He was captured by the US and held in US custody. He is and they are fully and solely responsible.

Show us the law he's broken Durka.

Under the UCMJ, he could have been shot upon capture as a spy. As was the customary norm for all un-uniformed combatants prior to the pussification of the RoE.

Had the US Supreme Court not interceded and the laws of the USMJ been applied to him as if he were a US Soldier. Thus receiving the full benefit of council and all the human rights treatment that a US citizen would receive.

 

[Just the Facts]

Funny how there's "no evidence" he's a traitor, but it's a given that he was tortured.

 

[CDNBear]

Funny how there's "no evidence" he's a traitor, but it's a given that he was tortured.

 

[darkbeaver]

There's lots of evidence. That you choose to ignore it is up to you.

If Mr Khadr were tried in a Canadian court of law that alleged evidence can be judged and if he is found guilty he would be sentenced under Canadian law. As it is he has served five years before he's been found guilty on circumstantial evidence and hearsay at best. What I find particularly stupid about those Canadians after Khadrs blood and those pleased at his treatment is the fact that you're casting your vote in favour of similar treatment should you find yourself in similar circumstances. Either you insist on his rights as a Canadian or you forfiet your own rights by the new default you support with your actions.

 

[CDNBear]

If Mr Khadr were tried in a Canadian court of law that alleged evidence can be judged and if he is found guilty he would be sentenced under Canadian law. As it is he has served five years before he's been found guilty on circumstantial evidence and hearsay at best. What I find particularly stupid about those Canadians after Khadrs blood and those pleased at his treatment is the fact that you're casting your vote in favour of similar treatment should you find yourself in similar circumstances. Either you insist on his rights as a Canadian or you forfiet your own rights by the new default you support with your actions.

He was captured in Afghanistan, he was captured by an American Unit, he could have been shot or turned over to the Afghans. Of course then we wouldn't be discussing his present situation, he'ld be dead.

He should not be tried in a Canadian Court, he was in Canada, nor was he captured by Canadians. We have no jurisdiction over him at all, nor should we.

When will you people get that FACT through your heads!!!???

 

[lone wolf]

That would be most of our diplomatic staff and most of our bussiness class and all of our tourists. A ****ing passport is by definition used as a shield, that's what it is.:smile:

A passport is a calling card. If they have to use that passport as a get out of jail free card because they've been caught with their hands in someone else's cookie jar, then they deserve their lumps. A citizenship used as a convenience is every bit as wrong as a foreign paramilitary organization or criminal using Canadian passports to get by security.

 

[CDNBear]

A passport is a calling card. If they have to use that passport as a get out of jail free card because they've been caught with their hands in someone else's cookie jar, then they deserve their lumps. A citizenship used as a convenience is every bit as wrong as a foreign paramilitary organization or criminal using Canadian passports to get by security.

Hear, hear!!!

 

[Just the Facts]

If Mr Khadr were tried in a Canadian court of law that alleged evidence can be judged and if he is found guilty he would be sentenced under Canadian law. As it is he has served five years before he's been found guilty on circumstantial evidence and hearsay at best. What I find particularly stupid about those Canadians after Khadrs blood and those pleased at his treatment is the fact that you're casting your vote in favour of similar treatment should you find yourself in similar circumstances. Either you insist on his rights as a Canadian or you forfiet your own rights by the new default you support with your actions.

That's horse excrement. Firstly, if captured by the enemy you'd be lucky to be alive for longer than a REM cycle, let alone suffer sleep deprivation, which is so far the worst of the accusations of torture re little Mr. Khadr.

Secondly, along with the rights of Canadian citizenship come responsibilities....one of which is to NOT take up arms against Canadians.