Nuremberg Trials or Nuremberg Lynch Mob

[Corduroy]

Do you see any Japanese names on the docket list for these trials?

Nope, but among those tried at Nuremberg are people who had nothing to do with the Holocaust. They were charged with other crimes. So why is this thread exclusively about Jews? Why are you quibbling over numbers? Why is all the attention you pay to the ad hoc victor's justice of the postwar trials focused solely on whatever involves Jews?

As I said, worse things came out of those trials than getting the numbers wrong, but for some reason that is about all you care about.

 

[Colpy]

Manipulative propaganda is my favorite subject. Sometimes I'm busy elsewhere.
I can see far more people missing than approximately 5.7 million Jews. Nazis also deliberately exterminated the Roma, Poles, Slavs, Blacks, Jehovah Witnesses...

I can also see all the other deaths, soldiers, collateral damage (civilians) and other inevitable war carnage. How come you can only see Jewish suffering? What else don't you see?

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All the vast number of other categories of murdered souls represented only 40% of the total, while that single entity (the Jews) made up 60%. A large portion of the exterminated non-Jews were killed not for racial reasons, but for political or strategic reasons. The Germans themselves decided the focus, as they concentrated on Jew-murder above all other considerations. For those reasons the Holocaust is seen more as a Jewish tragedy than anything else.

As for other damage, it was not focused genocide, it did not kill one third of an identifiable world population, and it was not the culmination of over 1,000 years of hatred and oppression.

As a result of deliberately manipulative propaganda over time, the Nazi death and labor camps became collectively known only for Jewish suffering. .

Bull****. Anyone with a brain knows many other people were exterminated....it is just that Jews were by FAR the largest group.

That suffering of millions of people is now used to provide cover for another group of war criminals who claim to represent all Jews and all "Holocaust" suffering.

I agree with this orthodox Jew and (former?) Zionist:
YouTube - UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

Many Jews disagree with the Holocaust Industry:
Norman G. Finkelstein The Holocaust Industry



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Three things:

1. I know it is a shock to your obsessed self, but try to see beyond your psychosis and realize: WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT GAZA!!!!!

2. But, seeing as you brought it up, you are the lowest form of filth on the face of the earth to compare the fight against Islamists in Gaza to the Jewish Holocaust. the life expectancy of a Gazan at birth is 73.9 years, one of the best in the Middle East. What do you suppose the life expectancy was of a Jew born in eastern Europe in 1939, hmmmmm??????

3. Thank you. That last bit proved beyond all doubt that you are a Jew hater. There can be nothing more revealing of that simple fact than comparing the Israelis in Gaza to the Nazis. It is completely beyond the Pale.

I believe it happened, despite agenda driven interference of empirical historical research. There is too much supporting evidence to deny that millions of people were systematically exterminated. I can also point to many other mass slaughter in recent and ancient history which dwarf this event. But I can't find another example where such an event justifies ongoing suffering today against a group of people who had little to nothing to do with the the excuse

Name one.

a genocide greater than 6 million.

I beg to differ. Not only do we excuse our mass murderers, we seek them out when we are desperate and afraid... The American people re-elected George Bush after it was known he had started an unprovoked war which resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of refugees... few of whom are accepted into the US BTW.

During WWII one of our war criminals was pulled over for drunk driving on the way back to the airbase. The officer derided him for drinking and driving, "Sir, don't you realize you could have killed someone?". Our war criminal replied, "Young man, I'll have you know I kill thousands of people every night.".

Straw men......

Neither Bush nor Air Marshall Harris were engaged in genocide.

They were engaged in warfare. HUGE difference.

This **** makes me extremely angry..

 

[earth_as_one]

Liar, Nazi? Do posts like this meet forum rules?

 

[Colpy]

Liar, Nazi? Do posts like this meet forum rules?

Probably not. Neither does Holocaust denial and promoting hate against Jews, but I believe in free speech.

But fine, I removed the offensive words. Now deal with the subject.

 

[MHz]

Nope, but among those tried at Nuremberg are people who had nothing to do with the Holocaust. They were charged with other crimes. So why is this thread exclusively about Jews? Why are you quibbling over numbers? Why is all the attention you pay to the ad hoc victor's justice of the postwar trials focused solely on whatever involves Jews?

As I said, worse things came out of those trials than getting the numbers wrong, but for some reason that is about all you care about.

That's true and some were released by courts once an appeal was able to be heard, yet how much was actually 'corrected', not much if anything.
The numbers has was the topic I was being challenged over, this is an attempt to show there are truthful documents to support a lower number than the 6M. Apparently that number is something some people do not wish to let go of, no matter about accuracy. The camps were wrong no matter what civilians were in them. The 20th Century was when armies stopped fighting each other and avoiding civilians (for the most part) and took the fight to the civilians in the hope of killing enough that the enemy could not function (support) and that reduced the number of soldiers that would be needed to win the war. Even WWI was mostly soldier against soldier, WWII saw saw a huge increase in civilian deaths, not just the Jews. Nobody cares that their number more than tripled the inflated number given for the Jewish persecution programs, that is was the Allies who did a great deal of the killing doesn't make the top of the list very often.

 

[earth_as_one]

You can believe what you like Colpy. I have my own viewpoint and philosophy, which doesn't include being insulting or attacking people personally.

For the record, I don't hate Jews, nor do I deny the Holocaust. I believe in equal rights for everyone. I am against classifying people in general. I am against all war crimes and crimes against humanity, not selected ones. I have not been manipulated into believing one atrocity justifies another.

 

[CDNBear]

Liar, Nazi? Do posts like this meet forum rules?

Does your obvious hatred?

1. Not to post any material that you know, or in our judgment ought to know, is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of personal privacy, or in violation of Canadian law;

Your posts, would definitely be considered hate speech. If i actually supported hate speech laws.

Then we have your spam...

4. You will not post what is commonly called spam, which includes but is not limited to such things as advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, or promoting a particular cause or organization. Exceptions may be granted for worthy (in our sole opinion) causes if you obtain prior permission from us;

You promote your cause, ad nauseum. You promote groups like Hamas.

When you adhere to the rules, so shall I.

You can believe what you like Colpy. I have my own viewpoint and philosophy, which doesn't include being insulting or attacking people personally.

Anyone that doesn't agree with you explicitly, is an Israeli apologist. Supporting war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

[Colpy]

You can believe what you like Colpy. I have my own viewpoint and philosophy, which doesn't include being insulting or attacking people personally.

For the record, I don't hate Jews, nor do I deny the Holocaust. I believe in equal rights for everyone. I am against classifying people in general. I am against all war crimes and crimes against humanity, not selected ones. I have not been manipulated into believing one atrocity justifies another.

Bull****.

 

[MHz]

All the vast number of other categories of murdered souls represented only 40% of the total, while that single entity (the Jews) made up 60%. A large portion of the exterminated non-Jews were killed not for racial reasons, but for political or strategic reasons. The Germans themselves decided the focus, as they concentrated on Jew-murder above all other considerations. For those reasons the Holocaust is seen more as a Jewish tragedy than anything else.

You do know the Jews declared war on Germany in 1933 right? Use the correct figures for the number who died and it isn't a whole lot larger than the others targeted, what has the world collectively given them as compensation.

Total dead

World War II fatality statistics vary greatly. Estimates of total dead range from 50 million to over 70 million.[1] The sources cited in this article document an estimated death toll in World War II of 62 to 78 million, making it the deadliest war ever. When scholarly sources differ on the number of deaths in a country, a range of war losses is given, in order to inform readers that the death toll is disputed. Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

Bull****. Anyone with a brain knows many other people were exterminated....it is just that Jews were by FAR the largest group.

How do you get them as the highest number when the lowest estimate is 1.5 million, certainly not a small number but I fail to see why they get elevated to a special status when Palestine was a prize waiting for them if they had suffered zero casualties. That was in the works before WWI even started. How many people gave up their lives so the Brits could have control of Palestine?

Neither Bush nor Air Marshall Harris were engaged in genocide.

They were engaged in warfare. HUGE difference.

This **** makes me extremely angry..

Genocide wouldn't have included anybody other than one group, and for the record genocide can come from the air in the form of carpet bombing just as easily, if not even easier.

 

[Corduroy]

For the record, I don't hate Jews, nor do I deny the Holocaust. I believe in equal rights for everyone. I am against classifying people in general. I am against all war crimes and crimes against humanity, not selected ones. I have not been manipulated into believing one atrocity justifies another.

"For the record, I don't hate Jews"

In this thread you posted an irrelevant criticism of Israeli policy in Palestine. Why? The topic of this thread is the Holocaust. Not Israel. Then you completely fabricate the existence of some mass delusion that people believe only Jews died in the Holocaust and no other people have ever been subject to comparative mass murders.

It's kinda suspicious don't you think? This constant effort to twist topics into irrelevant reasons to criticize Jews and imagined conspiracies involving Jews.

 

[Colpy]

You can believe what you like Colpy. I have my own viewpoint and philosophy, which doesn't include being insulting or attacking people personally.

For the record, I don't hate Jews, nor do I deny the Holocaust. I believe in equal rights for everyone. I am against classifying people in general. I am against all war crimes and crimes against humanity, not selected ones. I have not been manipulated into believing one atrocity justifies another.

I'm going to pile on here

I have repeatedly pointed out that the life expectancy of a resident of Gaza is 73.9 years.

Gaza Strip Life expectancy at birth - Demographics

You have never addressed that fact. But you continue to accuse the Israelis of "genocide" and of creating conditions of starvation and plague in Gaza. Your very words.

Indeed the life expectancy in Egypt, the country of which Gaza was a part, is only 72.6 years.

Egypt Life expectancy at birth - Demographics

In other words, the life expectancy of the people of Gaza has been EXTENDED by their "occupation" by the Israelis.

Yet you refuse to acknowledge these facts, and you compare the Israeli dealings with Gaza to the Nazis and the Jews....outrageous!

Obviously, you carry an extremely pronounced bias and an inability to deal with simple facts that prove you wrong.

When you continue to attack the Jewish state in the most vicious terms possible, on grounds that are obviously proven false, then that is Jew hatred.

 

[darkbeaver]

The postwar war crimes trials were flawed for sure. But if you're only problem is that you believe the number of murdered Jews was inflated, you're still suspiciously a Jew hater. Because of all the things there were wrong with those trials, how many millions of Jews were murdered is hardly worth all the attention you're giving it.

The Tokyo trials are probably the worst example. In that trial, as the dissenting judge noted, the Allies charged members of the Japanese government and military with war crimes in Asia the Allies themselves had committed for centuries prior and committed continually up until the war began and went right back to committing when they got their colonies back. And for political purposes, in order to keep Japan stable and prevent it from going red, several officials who should have been charged with war crimes were given a free pass, and in the case of Hirohito, the subject of an intensive American PR campaign to absolve of all responsibility, even knowledge, of the crimes committed in his name.

But of course, there aren't any Jews involved in this, so all your efforts in criticizing the war crimes tribunals rest on Nuremberg and revolve entirely around the comparatively unimportant total death toll of the Holocaust. Pretend no one has ever heard of the other victims of the Holocaust, announce those victims like your unmasking a massive cover-up and toss in an irrelevant tangent about Israel and everyone can tell it's not about the truth for you. It's about the Jews.

Irrelevant tangents about the Jews though do get inserted into the discussion expecting passage as religious truth beyond discussion, a matter of faith, the politically correct god in the room. Dynosaurs are better understood than the hollowcost.

 

[MHz]

I have repeatedly pointed out that the life expectancy of a resident of Gaza is 73.9 years.

Indeed the life expectancy in Egypt, the country of which Gaza was a part, is only 72.6 years.
.

So why do only 2.9% make it to old age (CIA factbook 2011) when 4.5% (in Egypt)make it to that last age group.

 

[wulfie68]

Bull****. Anyone with a brain knows many other people were exterminated....it is just that Jews were by FAR the largest group.

I'm not sure about this Colpy. Its hard to find exact numbers of civilian dead and the estimates vary wildly from just over 50 to almost 80 million depending on the sources.

For example Civilian Casualties of World War Two (I'm not sure of the accuracy of its data) says that 5.3 million Poles and 7.7 million Russians died in the overall conflict. Now from my recollection, many of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were Polish and German but assuming there were even a significant number of Russian Jews killed as well (and I don't know how valid an assumption that is, as the Soviets were anti-Semites as well, even more than just anti-religious) there is a lot of difference between 6 million and 7.7 million. World War II death toll of all nations lists 5.7 million Poles and 10 million Russians. World War 2 fatalities has even higher numbers with over 16 million Russians and 6 million Poles. Now these sites don't stipulate how these civilians died (i.e. execution vs starvation, disease or even friendly fire) but it is also historical record that the Nazis would execute civilians in "hostile" areas/populations as a means of controling them, especially in Eastern Europe.

I don't want to quibble over numbers but at the same time, we can't fall victim to the same traps that Holocaust deniers do if we want to maintain our credibility.

 

[darkbeaver]

Hollowcost discussion is hollowcost denial. Follow the gospels or endure the inquizition.

 

[earth_as_one]

"For the record, I don't hate Jews"

In this thread you posted an irrelevant criticism of Israeli policy in Palestine. Why? The topic of this thread is the Holocaust. Not Israel. Then you completely fabricate the existence of some mass delusion that people believe only Jews died in the Holocaust and no other people have ever been subject to comparative mass murders.

It's kinda suspicious don't you think? This constant effort to twist topics into irrelevant reasons to criticize Jews and imagined conspiracies involving Jews.

Let's recap. This thread started out about the Nuremberg Trials or Lynch Mob. Then it became about the Jewish Holocaust.

I don't deny Jewish suffering. I also don't deny the suffering of non-Jews. I noticed that non-Jews weren't part of the discussion until I pointed out that the Holocaust went from being perceived as a crime against humanity to perceived as a crime against Jews specifically. I think that's rather suspicious, and as a result I offered an explanation related to the exploitation of the Holocaust by Zionist war criminals and their supporters to stifle criticism of Zionist war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I noticed your attempt to twist my meaning into some sort of criticism of Jews, when my criticism directed at war criminals in general and Zionist war criminals specifically. Thank you for helping me make my point.

BTW, I don't think you are part of a conspiracy. You are probably just someone who drinks the Zionist Kool-Aid.

Let me clarify a few of my viewpoints for you.

A religion is not a race.

Zionist war criminals don't speak for all Jews

Not all Zionists are Jewish.

Extreme discrimination leads to suffering. Examples Nazism, Apartheid and Zionism. I could point to other examples to support my point:
http://socyberty.com/history/rwandan-genocide-what-history-teaches-us/
But extreme discrimination and suffering as a result of Zionism is ongoing and unshakably supported by the Harper government.

One lesson I take from the Holocaust is that people who are aware of atrocities like what happened during the Holocaust (past tense) or what's going on in Israel and the Occupied Territories (present tense) and don't speak out against them, are part of the problem and contribute to human suffering.

So I'm speaking out on behalf of those who suffer extreme discrimination and as a result war crimes and crimes against humanity.

If this was the 1930's, I'd still be speaking out on behalf of those who suffer extreme discrimination and as a result war crimes and crimes against humanity. A substantial number of those people would be Jewish.

I understand why Jews are insecure regarding non-Jews. But many people who helped Jews were non-Jews. I'd like to believe that I share the same traits as those people who saw through the demonizing propaganda, felt compassion for the suffering of others and spoke out. Jews and other Nazi identified groups had to fear the people who drank the Nazi Kool-Aid...

 

[Colpy]

EAO, you are still ducking the question that reveals you as a Jew-hater...

If the Israeli Nazis are engaged in a "genocide" against the Gazans, creating conditions of "starvation" and "plague", why is the life expectancy of a Gazan 73.9 years, among the longest in the Middle East?????

Oh, all the words in quotation marks are like that because they are desciptions you have used.

Now step up to the plate.

Or confess your hatred of Jews, as revealed in your irrational and untruthful attacks on the Jewish state.

 

[Corduroy]

Oh, I'll criticize Zionism up and down too, but I won't be doing it in topics not about Zionism and this topic isn't about Zionism. So why are you people bringing it up? It's suspicious that you are all so obsessed with these Jewish-related topics and that you'll bring them up at every irrelevant opportunity. Why is that? And it's clearly exacerbated by the fact that your opinions on these matters mostly pure delusion.

People who believe these conspiracy theories believe them because they want to believe them. The paucity of evidence and logical absurdity of their explanations are proof enough that nothing will stop them from believing. Why are these people so insistent on believing all these conspiracies involving Jews? It would be fine if they believed a variety of crazy theories, then we'd know they just had a few screws loose. But for some reason, most of their psychosis involves Jews. Again, it's quite suspicious isn't it?

 

[EagleSmack]

Do you see any Japanese names on the docket list for these trials?


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The Japanese were tried seperately you moron!

International Military Tribunal for the Far East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[earth_as_one]

Another attempt to twist criticism of Zionist crimes against humanity into being about criticism of Jews.

What the Nazis did (past tense) to Jews and other groups is different from what the Ottomans did (past tense) to the Armenians, what the White Supremists did in Apartheid Soth Africa, what the Hutus did to the Tutsis and what Zionists do (present tense) to non-Jews in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. But they all share a common theme of people classification and discrimination which led to mass human suffering. No it isn't exactly the same, but I imagine holocaust survivors would recognize Gaza's walls, razor wire and guard towers. The Jews who fought against the Nazis during the Warsaw uprising have far more in common with Gazans than the IDF...