New Middle East

[gerryh]

A final solution...... All parties that are not DIRECTLY involved in Middle East governance , this would include but not limited to the u.s., Russia, Canada, GB, China, France...., drop ALL support for the Middle East countries and let them sort out their problems themselves. What comes out in the end will be a Middle Eastern sollution to a Middle Eastern problem.

 

[lone wolf]

A final solution...... All parties that are not DIRECTLY involved in Middle East governance , this would include but not limited to the u.s., Russia, Canada, GB, China, France...., drop ALL support for the Middle East countries and let them sort out their problems themselves. What comes out in the end will be a Middle Eastern sollution to a Middle Eastern problem.

BINGO!

Final solution.... Ewww ... how politically incorrect.... Perfect!

Woof!

 

[Just the Facts]

Yeah. That's not what I'm talking about. Gotta go now but I'll find it for you later.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...t-annual-egyptian-bribe.html?highlight=jordan

 

[earth_as_one]

So's Gaza. Gaza is the perfect case in point. Before the Israeli settlers left, it was one of the most productive agricultural centres in the mideast, if not THE most.

What's growing there now? Rocket factories. To launch at Israel.

What happened in Gaza after the Israeli occupation forces left isn't so different than what happened in Baghdad after the US defeated Hussein's forces. Israel and Palestine could have coordinated the transition of power better rather than Israel creating a power vacuum and leaving the Palestinian government in charge of a riot.

Of course desperate people are going to try to steal as much as they can. Gaza is a giant concentration camp. More than a million people are crammed into a tiny strip of land, making it one of the world's most densely populated areas. Its also one of the poorest and most desperate.

Despite rampant looting which followed destruction by settlers as they left, most greenhouses (70%) actually survived. Partly thanks to generous contributions ($14 million) by mostly American Jewish donors who bought more than 3000 greenhouses from Jewish settlers so they wouldn't destroy all of them as they left. (Credit where credit is due...)

Today Gazans have no power, water or money to run efficiently/profitably greenhouses or any other industry. Even if Gazans could grow something, the borders are closed and greenhouse produce spoils quickly. Gazans couldn't export anything even if they wanted. Although I understand Gaza overflows with rotting strawberries and cherry tomatoes at this time of year.

Other countries may have waged war against Israel. But "Palestinians" (the people that European refugees displaced from their homes) never had an army or fought any wars against Israel. Technically Palestinian militants who fire rockets at Israel are insurgents fighting an illegal occupation. While I disagree with violence, the UN recognizes the right to resist an illegal occupation.

Also, these "militants" didn't exist until years after they were displaced by European refugees. Now Israel has to deal with a growing violence problem resulting from 60 years of using violence and collective punishment against millions of mostly innocent people, most of whom have never commited a violent act against Israel... yet. Trying to bomb these people into accepting their hopeless situation, injustice and oppression hasn't worked in 60 years. I doubt more bombs will improve Israel's relationship with these people.



references:

Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

Facilities seen as key to Palestinians’ rebuilding of area vacated by Israelis

...Jihad al-Wazir, the deputy Palestinian finance minister, said roughly 30 percent of the greenhouses suffered various degrees of damage...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/

Israel moves to further isolate Gazans

The country prepares to cut power to Gaza, hoping that residents will turn against Hamas.

...In the four months since Hamas has taken over, Israel has allowed almost no finished goods or produce to leave the Gaza Strip. With the onset of the winter picking season for Gaza's strawberries and cherry tomatoes, millions of dollars' worth of products are expected to rot...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1025/p01s05-wome.html

Also
http://justworldnews.org/archives/001773.html

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

It seems to me that arming the Jews in Israel to the teeth with every modern weapon the U.S. has including nuclear weapons, was not, in hindsight, the best thing to do. It is time the U.S. decided to wag their own tail ....as opposed to letting Israel wag it for them. The U.S. created this problem by pushing and bullying to create the state of Israel....It is time they took control.

how did the US push and bully to create Israel....

Israel last i heard was our ally and friend....as far as arming them to the teeth...hell ya!!!! lil bit of westernthinking ain't such a bad idea to have over in the mid east....

juan...states never gave Israel nukes...if anything they made em themselves...

 

[earth_as_one]

...In the fall of 1956, France agreed to provide Israel with an 18 MWt research reactor. However, the onset of the Suez Crisis a few weeks later changed the situation dramatically. Following Egypt's closure of the Suez Canal in July, France and Britain had agreed with Israel that the latter should provoke a war with Egypt to provide the European nations with the pretext to send in their troops as peacekeepers to occupy and reopen the canal zone. In the wake of the Suez Crisis, the Soviet Union made a thinly veiled threat against the three nations. This episode not only enhanced the Israeli view that an independent nuclear capability was needed to prevent reliance on potentially unreliable allies, but also led to a sense of debt among French leaders that they had failed to fulfill commitments made to a partner. French premier Guy Mollet is even quoted as saying privately that France "owed" the bomb to Israel.

On 3 October 1957, France and Israel signed a revised agreement calling for France to build a 24 MWt reactor (although the cooling systems and waste facilities were designed to handle three times that power) and, in protocols that were not committed to paper, a chemical reprocessing plant. This complex was constructed in secret, and outside the IAEA inspection regime, by French and Israeli technicians at Dimona, in the Negev desert under the leadership of Col. Manes Pratt of the IDF Ordinance Corps. Both the scale of the project and the secrecy involved made the construction of Dimona a massive undertaking. A new intelligence agency, the Office of Science Liasons,(LEKEM) was created to provide security and intelligence for the project. At the height construction, some 1,500 Israelis some French workers were employed building Dimona. To maintain secrecy, French customs officials were told that the largest of the reactor components, such as the reactor tank, were part of a desalinization plant bound for Latin America. In addition, after buying heavy water from Norway on the condition that it not be transferred to a third country, the French Air Force secretly flew as much as four tons of the substance to Israel...

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/index.html

also

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Israel/index.html

and

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/israel/uranium.html

 

[MikeyDB]

One reason that the Israeli Palestinian conflict has been uppermost in the minds of folk is because it has been kept there by someone....

When the world's wealthiest nation spends the future of its children's education, the ability to gird itself against hurricanes and natural disasters, goes to war under a pretext cultivated by Zionists close to the U.S. government, there's a message being sent....

Who's sending this message?

Herm has the right answer and its the same thing I've said many times....

Pull the plug on arms and war materiel supply to Israel. Send support in any other form but not for the purposes of arming the intransigents....

We hear about Saddam Hussein writing cheques to Palestinian bombers but the money paid to Israel to permit it to maintain the "war effort" is somehow different, somehow a legitimate stipend while money received by Palestinians is interference.....

The U.S. and Britain should be paying to keep Israel from sending military sorties into Syria or anywhere else. China, Russia and anyone else interested in selling arms of any kind to Israel, Palestinians or anyone else involved should be on the recieving end of an embargo and sanction program by the U.S. and every other nation on earth.

When George W said..."Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists", does anyone actually believe he was talking about the World Trade Center and the atrocities of September 2001, or 1993?

There's too much water over the dam or under the bridge or whatever metaphor is your favorite to even entertain the possibility that this situation created by Britain and the United States is available to solution via "normal" diplomacy or foreign policy. These people have hurt each other to the essential fundamental core of each other's "being". There is no calculating the cost of childrens lives lost to stupidity and religious fervor, there's no replacing lifetimes lost to a war that only breathes life into hatred and makes money for foreign defense contractors....

Everyone has to back off and let the situation unfold as it would....

 

[darkbeaver]

The Isrealis problems with nieghbours began the day after the covenant with, wait for it, (GOD) was signed. When as a people you determine that you are gods chosen ones what does that say to your nieghbours? Exceptionalism as practiced by Isreal and thier retarded cousins the Americans rewards it's adherants with oblivion sooner or later but not soon enough. Isreali's have been booted about since that old ****head Abraham decided on the god concept and the special deal, the nieghbours of Isreal hated them long before the Romans discovered and applied the best treatment for the disease.

 

[I think not]

My my look at all the people thuosands of miles away from the epicenter of the turmoil, typing away their little ditties completely anonymous, thanks to the internet, and they still can't agree on anything.

But they all have demands that the joos and muslims get their **** together.

Hmmm.

 

[darkbeaver]

My my look at all the people thuosands of miles away from the epicenter of the turmoil, typing away their little ditties completely anonymous, thanks to the internet, and they still can't agree on anything.

But they all have demands that the joos and muslims get their **** together.

Hmmm.

And look at those typing thier little ditties from the center of the rot.

 

[lone wolf]

My my look at all the people thuosands of miles away from the epicenter of the turmoil, typing away their little ditties completely anonymous, thanks to the internet, and they still can't agree on anything.

But they all have demands that the joos and muslims get their **** together.

Hmmm.

Pity it wasn't as obvious to them....

Woof!

 

[I think not]

Pity it wasn't as obvious to them....

Woof!

Point being, if we can't agree when we have nothing to lose or gain, why is it expected for those directly involved to get there act together.

Perhaps things aren't as simple as they appear.

 

[lone wolf]

Because it's just pure and simple logic that if you lock them into a room together - alone and unsupported - they're either going to reach an agreement or only one is going to walk out. The only complications are the cheering sections.

Woof!

 

[Northboy]

Because it's just pure and simple logic that if you lock them into a room together - alone and unsupported - they're either going to reach an agreement or only one is going to walk out. The only complications are the cheering sections.

Woof!

Off topic, (you guys are doing fine) but nice Avatar....

 

[I think not]

Because it's just pure and simple logic that if you lock them into a room together - alone and unsupported - they're either going to reach an agreement or only one is going to walk out. The only complications are the cheering sections.

Woof!

That's not pure and simple logic, that's a death sentence towards Israel and you know it.

 

[gerryh]

That's not pure and simple logic, that's a death sentence towards Israel and you know it.

So...your saying that after over half a century Isreal still can't take care of itself? If that's the case, then it is a failed "experiment" and should be ended.

 

[lone wolf]

That's not pure and simple logic, that's a death sentence towards Israel and you know it.

I know it....
One might guess that would be incentive enough to get along with the neighbours. The pre-Israel Jewish of Palestine did....

Woof!

 

[I think not]

I know it....
One might guess that would be incentive enough to get along with the neighbours. The pre-Israel Jewish of Palestine did....

Woof!

The "neighbors" invaded Israel after the UN granted them independence. I don't think they have forgotten about that.

 

[lone wolf]

The neighbours were nomads. They know the Jewish in Palestine as friends. Nomads travel freely. Territorial newcomers see invasion. To them it is the "Promised Land". The rest is just a snowballing clusterfu......

Woof!

 

[earth_as_one]

If I recall, all the neighbors voted against that resolution to create a rogue nation on their doorstep.

Also, the people terrorized and ethnically cleansed off the land to make way for Israel never got the same consideration by the UN as the European refugees who fled Europe. That might have something to do with who runs the UN.

Israeli apologists never acknowledge that Israel's creation destroyed these people. Instead they try to portray mostly unarmed civilians as armed invaders and terrorists. That portrayal, like most of what is commonly known about this conflict in the west is revisionist propaganda in direct contradiction of facts documented by historians on both sides of the conflict. In other words BS propaganda, served up in an attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

Here is an eye witness account from a unarmed Palestinian civilian who became a refugee.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Story202.html

Here are what Jewish Israeli historians say about these events:
http://www.logosjournal.com/pappe.htm
http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

Jewish refugees immigrated to this area. The extreme among them committed acts of terrorism, crimes against humanity and war crimes against the local civilian population forcing them to flee before, during and after Israel's creation.

But what goes around, comes around... and violence leads to violence. Over the longterm, Israel as a Zionist Jewish state, will fall.

When that day comes, I hope Canada accepts some responsibility for the consequences of voting in favor of creating this mess. The last time Jewish refugees fled persecution and terror enmasse, we sent them back where they came from. This time we should welcome everyone who tried to live in peace with their neighbors... That describes the majority of Palestinians and Israelis. We should not accept war criminals and people who commit crimes against humanity... that only describes a minority of Palestinians and Israelis.