Mosque near Ground Zero

[captain morgan]

What I said was that if Muslims can be prevented from building a Mosque near a giant hole because of the actions of a few then so should Catholics be prevent for the same.

I've answered this already - if that is what the local community wants, then that should be how it is.

You are more interested in employing highly charged references in order to substantiate your position... I notice that you shy-away from acknowledging that any other group (incl. religious) have experienced episodes of child abuse; you rely on isolating one specific group while ignoring the rest.. That's why I've pushed you on this.

Nope, the answers are not given as a matter of convenience.

It's not the answers i was referring to, it was the ever evolving question(s)

 

[Avro]

I've answered this already - if that is what the local community wants, then that should be how it is.

You are more interested in employing highly charged references in order to substantiate your position... I notice that you shy-away from acknowledging that any other group (incl. religious) have experienced episodes of child abuse; you rely on isolating one specific group while ignoring the rest.. That's why I've pushed you on this.

That's not what I asked.

I asked do you think churches should be built near schools and should they be running them?

Your response about the community is moot given the result of the vote by council.

What religious group is widely known to rape young boys and attempt to hide that fact and protect those that do?

This is a discussion about religion, not any group.

Like I said, if that is the argument you can't win.

Every group would be banned from everything....is that what you want?

It's not the answers i was referring to, it was the ever evolving question(s)

All relevant, if you can't or won't answer them that's not my problem.

 

[captain morgan]

I asked do you think churches should be built near schools and should they be running them?

This is not about religion Avro - this is about appropriate behaviour.

Your response about the community is moot given the result of the vote by council.

In my community, I'd have no problem with a church, a mosque or a synagogue. That said, if my community was in Manhattan at/near the site, then I would have an issue. No different if my community was in Hiroshima, I would have a problem with a site that celebrated nuclear arms across the street from the memorial park from that disaster or if my community was in Palestine, I'd have a problem with a synagogue built on a site that was related to Israeli actions.

So, it looks like my point isn't moot afterall.

What religious group is widely known to rape young boys and attempt to hide that fact and protect those that do?

It looks like there quite a number of "religious" organizations involved in this sick sh*t.

Islam Review - Presented by The Pen vs. the Sword Featured Articles . . . Islam: the Facade, the Facts The rosy picture some Muslims are painting about their religion, and the truth they try to hide.

Exposing Islam.: Mosque Leader Charged with Raping Young Boys...

Long list of Jewish Child Molestor Rabbis gets no media coverage and Jewish homosexual pedophiles are undisturbed. | 100777.com

http://jta.org/news/article/2010/04/09/1011504/rabbi-accused-of-rape

WitchVox Active Wiccan James Doulglas Ray Outed as Pedophile! - PACA: Pagans Against Child Abuse

The Wild Hunt Wiccan Arrested on Child Rape Charges

Like I said, if that is the argument you can't win.

Wanna bet? (see above)

Every group would be banned from everything....is that what you want?

Based on your overly broad commentary, that is what would eventually happen.

All relevant, if you can't or won't answer them that's not my problem.

 

[Avro]

This is not about religion Avro - this is about appropriate behaviour.




In my community, I'd have no problem with a church, a mosque or a synagogue. That said, if my community was in Manhattan at/near the site, then I would have an issue. No different if my community was in Hiroshima, I would have a problem with a site that celebrated nuclear arms across the street from the memorial park from that disaster or if my community was in Palestine, I'd have a problem with a synagogue built on a site that was related to Israeli actions.

So, it looks like my point isn't moot afterall.




It looks like there quite a number of "religious" organizations involved in this sick sh*t.

Islam Review - Presented by The Pen vs. the Sword Featured Articles . . . Islam: the Facade, the Facts The rosy picture some Muslims are painting about their religion, and the truth they try to hide.

Exposing Islam.: Mosque Leader Charged with Raping Young Boys...

Long list of Jewish Child Molestor Rabbis gets no media coverage and Jewish homosexual pedophiles are undisturbed. | 100777.com

Arizona rabbi accused of rape | JTA - Jewish & Israel News

WitchVox Active Wiccan James Doulglas Ray Outed as Pedophile! - PACA: Pagans Against Child Abuse

The Wild Hunt Wiccan Arrested on Child Rape Charges








Wanna bet? (see above)




Based on your overly broad commentary, that is what would eventually happen.

If it's about appropriate behavior then everything I said about Catholics is true.

You still didn't answer my question about schools....

Let's include all religions then, since they all have a track record with kids. Should they be near schools in any way and if not why?

Freedom of religion is not a factor at all. Or do we pick and choose?

I could make so many examples of this and broaden it with your weak correlation with all groups I would overload the server.

This is about one thing....Muslims.

Any other group, religious or not, wouldn't make a headline at the back of free newpapers next to porn ads.

 

[captain morgan]

If it's about appropriate behavior then everything I said about Catholics is true.

Yeah... Sure... Whatever

You still didn't answer my question about schools....why is this so hard for you?

I did. Go back and read what I posted.

Let's include all religions then, since they all have a track record with kids. Should they be near schools in any way and if not why?

I did include all of them, you're just getting up to speed.

As per your question about proximity to schools?... Go back and read my answer... I can't make it any clearer.

Freedom of religion is not a factor at all. Or do we pick and choose?

Where the hell did this come from?




As far as those examples I included, I did so to counter your solitary attack of one group and deliberate exclusion of all others... Clearly you need to ignore the facts that incl transgressions by individuals representing all religions because it deflates your stance on vilifying only Catholics.

This is about one thing....Muslims.

For you it is about assuming an apologist position for one group and smearing Catholics... That's pretty clear

 

[Tonington]

Are you sure?

9/11 Families for a Safe & Strong America Blog Archive Planned Ground Zero mosque imam wants sharia law in America

Well, that wasn't a load of crap or anything:roll:

He wants Sharia law to be optional. Maybe you should ask someone who has read his books, his words, or just read them yourself about how he imagines that happening. Faith based legal agreements are permissible, where they do not interfere with the sovereign laws of the US.

What's more, I'm sure of this because I have read some of his words on the topic, and not another person's slanted representation or interpretation of what he is saying. Judge for yourself:
ASMA SOCIETY | American Society for Muslim Advancement

 

[Just the Facts]

He wants Sharia law to be optional. Maybe you should ask someone who has read his books, his words, or just read them yourself about how he imagines that happening. Faith based legal agreements are permissible, where they do not interfere with the sovereign laws of the US.

Very much true Ton, but spearheading an effort to allow one's "group", whatever it may be by whatever distinction, to be allowed to follow it's own set of rules notwithstanding the community at large, hardly qualifies one to be assigned the badge of being at the "front of the effort to bridge the gap, to assimilate, not segregate."

Sounds more to me like a "we're different than you and have every intention to remain different than you while having as little to do with you as possible."

You know...."outreach". :lol:

 

[Tonington]

Very much true Ton, but spearheading an effort to allow one's "group", whatever it may be by whatever distinction, to be allowed to follow it's own set of rules notwithstanding the community at large, hardly qualifies one to be assigned the badge of being at the "front of the effort to bridge the gap, to assimilate, not segregate."

Sounds more to me like a "we're different than you and have every intention to remain different than you while having as little to do with you as possible."

You know...."outreach". :lol:

Maybe that's how you see it. I see it as, the US constitution favours no religion. If someone wishes to use their own customs in legal agreements, provided they are in conforming with the rule of law in that Municipality, State, Country, then who gives a crap? If they are trying to change the laws so that they can do what they want, that is not assimilating. If they work within the laws and Constitution, then that is assimilation.

I'll also make note that you haven't commented on his specific statements on bridging that gap.

Mind the gap, JTF.

 

[Just the Facts]

Mind the gap, JTF.

Well, I hope you're right. I really really do. I want to be wrong about this. Unfortunately, what I read in your link looks like some pretty classic taqqiya. But I'm all for giving peace a chance.

 

[Avro]

Well, I hope you're right. I really really do. I want to be wrong about this. Unfortunately, what I read in your link looks like some pretty classic taqqiya. But I'm all for giving peace a chance.

So you think this dude is hiding his beliefs?

Just for kicks, what do you think the real purpose of this house of evil being built near the giant hole?

 

[Ron in Regina]

How many participating in this Thread haven't been called a Bigot at least
once (doesn't seem to matter which side of the debate they're on) so far in
the last fifteen pages? Not many it would seem, completely negating the
impact that term might have had before reading through this Thread.

I've skimmed through this Thread, and if someone notices that a Post has
been edited, that means that something in it contributed to the Thread so
that an effort was made to remove any personal attacks or Trolling or
quotes of such nonsense. If a Post is missing, it would be becouse it
didn't meet the criteria above.

I don't even pretend to catch everything, but here I've caught much of it.

Yes, this (like many other Threads here on this Forum) is one on a
controversial topic. I get it. Can you all participate without further personal
attacks and name calling and insinuations about other members intelligence
or lack there of? It would be much appreciated.

.....

 

[Johnny Utah]

In an attempt that surely will go down as the second most impertinent, disrespectful, cruel, insensitive and despicable attack on America, the Muslims want to erect a mosque near the place of their greatest achivement in history, near the site where they destroyed close to 3000 lives.

You know, Muslims, who forbid a Bible on any Muslim land. You know, Muslims, who will stone any woman to death who dares to look at a man who is not her father or husband. Muslims, whose greatest ambition is to kill all Jews and for good measure, all Christians. We are still waiting as to what their plans are about Buddhists, Mormons or any other "apostates".

Should they be allowed to build this mosque? If yes, WHY and if not WHY NOT?

It can't be any worse than vendors selling WTC memorabilia near ground zero..

 

[petros]

It can't be any worse than vendors selling WTC memorabilia near ground zero..

Can I buy a bag of human ash?

 

[In Between Man]

This is an outrage!angry9:

 

[ironsides]

Of Mosques and Men: Reflections on the Ground Zero Mosque



YouTube - Of Mosques and Men: Reflections on the Ground Zero Mosque

 

[barney]

This is about one thing....Muslims.

Any other group, religious or not, wouldn't make a headline at the back of free newpapers next to porn ads.

Yes I think that once you get past all the rhetoric, that's basically it; Islam is the present boogyman of choice.

Any legitimate thing or act associated with it gets blown out of proportion and implicitly degraded to the level of Jihadists--like the Catholic Church being degraded to the level of the KKK.

Until the Middle East ceases to be a focal point of US attention--not likely to happen any time soon--this will continue to be the case.

 

[Cliffy]

Yes I think that once you get past all the rhetoric, that's basically it; Islam is the present boogyman of choice.

Any legitimate thing or act associated with it gets blown out of proportion and implicitly degraded to the level of Jihadists--like the Catholic Church being degraded to the level of the KKK.

Until the Middle East ceases to be a focal point of US attention--not likely to happen any time soon--this will continue to be the case.

Yup! The US government would not know what to do with itself if it had no boogiemen to spread fear about. How else would they feed their economy? The war machine must be greased, so war is inevitable. Just add one fictitious boogieman and you're good to go.

 

[DaSleeper]

In the middle of the debates and the election, this seems to have been forgotten....

Is one of the major backers of the mosque changing his mind???


Prince al-Waleed backs moving the Manhattan mosque

Saudi Prince al-Waleed bin Talal has been one of the most intriguing figures in the debate over the "Ground Zero Mosque." al-Waleed is both a funder of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposed Park51 Islamic Center through his Kingdom Foundation and a part-owner of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp, the parent company of Fox News, whose on-air personalities have led the charge against the project. Jon Stewart, in particular, has had a field day with awkwardness this has caused for Fox.
But now, in his first public comments on the controversy, al-Waleed seemed to be taking the Fox News line in an interview with an Arabic business magazine:


More::: Prince al-Waleed backs moving the Manhattan mosque | FP Passport

 

[Locutus]

Shocker: Still No “Islamic Culture Center” At Ground Zero Mosque, Only A Mosque…



Via NY Post:




It’s all pray and no play.

The Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero that opened with great fanfare a year ago is now an empty space with no community programs.

And while the developers behind Park51 insisted for two years that the project was more than a mosque, it now appears to be just that. Dozens of worshipers gather at the site on Park Place Friday for prayer services — but that’s the only activity in the building.

Gone are the Arabic classes, workshops in calligraphy, talks on the genealogy of Muslims in America, film screenings and art exhibits. The sole community event is a class in capoeira — an Afro-Brazilian martial art that combines dance and music. The teacher of the twice-weekly class said she has five students.

“We are the only cultural program that is still there,” said Luz Emma Canas Jesus, of Capoeira Mucurumim.

The Park51 Twitter feed was last updated in June, and its Web site lists no events. The Web site for the mosque, formally called Prayer Space, lists four services a day, and a handwritten note on the building’s window also advertises a 4 a.m. service.

Park51 organizers repeatedly refused to answer questions about what happened to the programs offered last fall and spring. Sharif El-Gamal, the lead developer behind the project, ducked out the women’s entrance for the prayer space and would not speak to a reporter.

Just two years ago, El-Gamal’s grand plans for the site — a $100 million, 15-story community center and prayer space — generated worldwide controversy because of its proximity to the Ground Zero site.




Shocker: Still No “Islamic Culture Center” At Ground Zero Mosque, Only A Mosque… | Weasel Zippers

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