Man dies after Taser shock by police at Vancouver airport

[VanIsle]

Movies you say................ Fact I say........



Christy Clark - The Official Website » RCMP’s Bush investigation requires impartial inquiry

I have heard of other similar stories, but none that have made news such as this.. Of course the police usually do not discuss using their guns in this fashion..

It may not be policy, but hey, since when do people follow all rules when fighting for their lives ?

Sir Francis: You must have gone back a long way in the news to find that old article. It is my understanding that the "report" given by the police officer from Edmonton(ex police officer not current as the article states)was a bitter report by a fired disgruntled ex officer but I would not know where to find that report. It is also my understanding that the real expert they brought in stated it was entirely possible that it occured just as the member of the RCMP has stated. Try to remember that truth is stranger than fiction. Your words and thoughts have certainly thrown me for a loop. I never expected this from you.8O

 

[Tyr]

just so I'm clear, you who are disappointed that the RCMP members involved in this death are not being charged: what would you have them charged with? murder?

manslaughter. It wasn't pre-meditated

Good thing the RCMP was investigating the RCMP. Could the outcome not have been any more predictable?

 

[barney]

Oh, one more thing. My late uncle was an RCMP officer and calling him scum and a facist piece of garbage is very insulting to me. While you may not like what happened in the airport(and they should have been punished), not all RCMP officers can be painted with the same brush.

Ok fine, I apologize for the generalization but generally speaking, the comment stands. Sorry, I can accept a lot unjust things in this messed up country but the RCMP is not one of them. Whether you are aware of it or not, the organization operates itself like a mafia in the background (i.e. behind that saintly facade that is presented to the public)and it is a very real danger to those who attempt to expose this.

 

[barney]

Here we digress, Barney, I've dealt with them several times on different issues- always found them to be concerned and understanding even when the problem was beyond their scope.

I know what they're like. The people you've met with are the personnel that deal with the public; they're just like anyone else. You've never met the real RCMP. Pray you never do. See my reply to shadowshiv.

manslaughter. It wasn't pre-meditated

They knew what the result would be. There were many other options available to them. Putting aside that, according to witnesses they showed up with a plan (i.e. they knew just how they intended deal with this), the choice was made maliciously to not deal with the man and to taser him repeatedly, knowing full well what the consequences would most likely be, given his state (and even if he was fine for that matter)--with which they showed absolutely no concern.

Manslaughter? Bull. It's 2rd degree murder.

I'll tell you...had a loved one of mine (let alone a son/daughter) been the victim like Robert Dziekanski was, and those four murdering psychos got off, they would likely not be breathing today.

 

[Scott Free]

It's 2rd degree murder.

I agree. In the hands of children it would have been manslaughter but police are trained with this weapon and therefore they know what will happen if they are used.

I'm just amazed they didn't use their standard "death by cop" excuse.

 

[Tyr]

I know what they're like. The people you've met with are the personnel that deal with the public; they're just like anyone else. You've never met the real RCMP. Pray you never do. See my reply to shadowshiv.



They knew what the result would be. There were many other options available to them. Putting aside that, according to witnesses they showed up with a plan (i.e. they knew just how they intended deal with this), the choice was made maliciously to not deal with the man and to taser him repeatedly, knowing full well what the consequences would most likely be, given his state (and even if he was fine for that matter)--with which they showed absolutely no concern.

Manslaughter? Bull. It's 2rd degree murder.

I'll tell you...had a loved one of mine (let alone a son/daughter) been the victim like Robert Dziekanski was, and those four murdering psychos got off, they would likely not be breathing today.

I do not like the verdict anymore than 99% of the populace, but it's still manslaughter. The expressed intent of a taser is not to kill, but to subdue. They did not intend to kill him. They may have been negligent under he circumstances, but that still amounts to manslaughter, not murder

Should they go to a "lock-up" of some sort. Definitely. 2 yrs less a day with no chance of parole. They should also face a weapons ban for life and not be accepted into any police/security role for life

It ended in a death, hence there should be consequences

 

[Colpy]

And remember boys and girls, killing someone because 'they needed killing' was taken off the books as far as civilians are concerned some time back.

And, in some cases, that is truely a damn shame.

 

[#juan]

And, in some cases, that is truely a damn shame.

The problem with that is the question; In who's opinion does somebody "need killing? or Who decides? People like Olsen and Bernardo, I would volunteer to send them on to the next world but there are just not that many completely obvious candidates.

 

[VanIsle]

I know what they're like. The people you've met with are the personnel that deal with the public; they're just like anyone else. You've never met the real RCMP. Pray you never do. See my reply to shadowshiv.



They knew what the result would be. There were many other options available to them. Putting aside that, according to witnesses they showed up with a plan (i.e. they knew just how they intended deal with this), the choice was made maliciously to not deal with the man and to taser him repeatedly, knowing full well what the consequences would most likely be, given his state (and even if he was fine for that matter)--with which they showed absolutely no concern.

Manslaughter? Bull. It's 2rd degree murder.

I'll tell you...had a loved one of mine (let alone a son/daughter) been the victim like Robert Dziekanski was, and those four murdering psychos got off, they would likely not be breathing today.

It's obvious you are a bitter piece of nothing and know zero about the RCMP. In Canada there is no first or second degree murder. You have made up your "mind" about how this whole thing went down - and you are wrong - so go wallow in your mire and keep your mindless opinions to yourself.

 

[barney]

The evidence was caught on tape and various witnesses confirmed the officers' attitude (which was in turn confirmed by the tape).

What do you mean there's no 2nd degree murder? 2nd degree murder is when the decision to kill (or do something that you know will likely result in death) is made on the spot. (You're thinking of 3rd degree murder.)

But yes, I am bitter and rightly so. My taxes pay their salaries (among other reasons).

 

[Tyr]

It's obvious you are a bitter piece of nothing and know zero about the RCMP. In Canada there is no first or second degree murder. You have made up your "mind" about how this whole thing went down - and you are wrong - so go wallow in your mire and keep your mindless opinions to yourself.

au contraire

In Canada, murder is classified as either first or second degree.

First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, (4) while committing or attempting to commit one of the following offences (hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement or hostage taking), (5) while committing criminal harassment, (6) committed during terrorist activity, (7) while using explosives in association with a criminal organization, or (8) while committing intimidation.

Second degree murder is all murder which is not first degree murder. It could be "spur of the moment".

 

[Tyr]

further to that

Manslaughter is any culpable homicide which is not murder or infanticide

The maximum penalties for murder are:

1. First degree murder - mandatory life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 25 years (can be paroled under the Faint-Hope Clause after 15 years imprisonment, but such a reduction is rarely given and is not available for multiple murders)
2. Second degree murder - mandatory life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 10-25 years (parole eligibility determined by the judge at sentencing) (exception: if the person had committed another murder in their past, parole eligibility is 25 years)

There is a clause under which a person convicted of any "personal injury offence" meeting the statutory criteria may be declared a "dangerous offender". A dangerous offender is sentenced for an indeterminate period of imprisonment and is eligible for parole after serving at least 7 years. An offender convicted of 1st or 2nd degree murder is ineligible to be declared a dangerous offender. However, an offender convicted of manslaughter can be declared a dangerous offender.
Any sentence imposed in addition to a life sentence must be concurrent.

 

[VanIsle]

The evidence was caught on tape and various witnesses confirmed the officers' attitude (which was in turn confirmed by the tape).

What do you mean there's no 2nd degree murder? 2nd degree murder is when the decision to kill (or do something that you know will likely result in death) is made on the spot. (You're thinking of 3rd degree murder.)

But yes, I am bitter and rightly so. My taxes pay their salaries (among other reasons).

You are right regarding First and Second degree murder. However:
But yes, I am bitter and rightly so. My taxes pay their salaries - Do you want your dime back? Get bitter when you know and can accept the truth.

 

[VanIsle]

au contraire

In Canada, murder is classified as either first or second degree.

First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, (4) while committing or attempting to commit one of the following offences (hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement or hostage taking), (5) while committing criminal harassment, (6) committed during terrorist activity, (7) while using explosives in association with a criminal organization, or (8) while committing intimidation.

Second degree murder is all murder which is not first degree murder. It could be "spur of the moment".

You had to put this on both forums! Were you afraid I would miss it? I'll give it to you that you are right all the way regarding the classifications for murder. I obviously did not remember what my husband had told me and was foolish enough to write without researching or speaking to him first. Score one for you.

 

[JLM]

You had to put this on both forums! Were you afraid I would miss it? I'll give it to you that you are right all the way regarding the classifications for murder. I obviously did not remember what my husband had told me and was foolish enough to write without researching or speaking to him first. Score one for you.

I'd question the use of the term "murder" in this unfortunate incident BUT IMHO, there was to say the least mismanagement on the part of the cops- a man armed with a stapler is not endangering anyone's life- if everyone would have just backed away and given the man "his space" he probably would have calmed down eventually. Most of the cops are good, but there's a few who get a little overwhelmed with their own self-importance.

 

[china]

I am writing to the Prime Minister of Canada that as a citizen of our country I demand that that the four RCMPs be punished properly for the crime that they have committed .As a Canadian it is my responsible to be involved with what is happening in my country even though I might be living somewhere else temporarly ,.I hope that more people will contact the PM.

 

[JLM]

I am writing to the Prime Minister of Canada that as a citizen of our country I demand that that the four RCMPs be punished properly for the crime that they have committed .As a Canadian it is my responsible to be involved with what is happening in my country even though I might be living somewhere else temporarly ,.I hope that more people will contact the PM.

Don't hold your breath. What is "proper punishment"?

 

[Stretch]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Sold As 'Non-lethal,' Tasers Killed 400 Since 2001[/FONT]​

'They are marketed as non-lethal weapons that allow police to capture suspects or criminals without causing any permanent harm.Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and businessman Bernard Kerik made millions selling the idea to police departments across the country. But Tasers have killed more than 400 people since 2001, according to a new study commissioned by the Canadian Broadcasting Corp.​

The Raw Story | Sold as 'non-lethal,' Tasers killed 400 since 2001​

 

[Tyr]

You had to put this on both forums! Were you afraid I would miss it? I'll give it to you that you are right all the way regarding the classifications for murder. I obviously did not remember what my husband had told me and was foolish enough to write without researching or speaking to him first. Score one for you.

I think the score is "many" to "zero", but who's counting

 

[coldstream]

I think you could argue that this tasering was the result of poor training, poorly articulated policy on taser use, lack of resources to deal with lost travellers at the airport. One thing i consider completely unprofessional was the lack of any CPR that the officer gave to the victim. Were they just too high and mighty as police officers to apply life saving efforts.

That was imho, both a failure of responsibility and character on the part of these officers.. to the point that i think it should have resulted in severe reprimand, suspension, demotion. Something that sent out a clear message that police were expected to serve and protect, rather than run around like the toughest gangsters on the block.. a cut above the service part.. too precious to apply mouth to mouth and heart massage. That makes these guys an embarrasment to the RCMP, we should be hiring better people.