Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest The Warmist Criminals

[Ron in Regina]

Lots of coal powered plants in Canada too. It's -50c with the wind-chill where I'm
sitting right now (& yeah I know, that's weather, not climate), and it's coal that's
powering my house and allowing me to be on here today. No power, no thermostat,
no heat. Not good today.

 

[Tonington]

And the tarsands are targetted why? What about all the coal powered plants in Europe, Asia and the US? No one says anything about them. Now why would that be??

JMO

Everyone talks about coal plants. The advocate scientist Jim Hansen who has testified before Congress on multiple occasions, has called coal the enemy of the human race.

People don't say too much about Europe, because they actually met their Kyoto obligations. Yes, that's right, it's actually possible to do so without ruining your economy, and even without offsets. Europe makes their grade without offsets, and including international-offsets their reductions are roughly 50% greater than they had pledged.

Asia is now home to the world's fastest growing renewable energy as well as the center for manufacturing. China builds more solar cells than anyone else, and they lead the world in wind turbine installation.

Other countries are actually making progress. That's why we don't hear too much about them. We've done nothing.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Where would carbon capture & storage technology fit into this as nothing
being done on the North American front? Isn't this the Pioneering Front
that the Apex 1 countries are suppose to be doing to help clean up our
acts, so that the rest of the globe can copy it on the cheap without having
to come up with the technology (& the expense that goes with it)
themselves? This is one of the pushes at this Copenhagen Meeting...

 

[Tonington]

It hasn't translated to any progress Ron. That would be the nothing part. There are technologies now that can make progress, but we've ignored that, ignored large-scale efficiency measures, ignored opportunities in favour of projects that even if they are successful, are many years out in the future.

If the technology pans out, that is great. If it doesn't, then it doesn't do the country that puts all it's eggs into that basket very much good.

 

[Ron in Regina]

If somebody doesn't step forward with the capital and the wherewithal, we'll
never know if it pans out either. It's new and expensive at this point, and it's
relatively early on so it's not producing significant results yet, but it has to
start somewhere, and somebody's gotta do it. I was just offering balance
on the 'nothing' aspect. I agree, the results don't appear before the
investment and research take place.

We're stepping up to the plate, and if it pays off, with coal being what coal
is environmentally.....well....forward thinking heroes and not zeros. Somebody
has to step out and try this, as coal pollution isn't just a Canadian thing, and
the world will benefit if this works in a huge way.

 

[Ron in Regina]

If Canada's only contribution is what is happening in Alberta & Saskatchewan,
then yeah....all our eggs would be in one basket, but it's hard to believe that the
rest of Canada isn't taking some initiative also...

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The only thing I can say about Monckton is that he was & is very willing
to debate Gore.....and Gore isn't willing to debate anyone. They're the
opposite ends way far out on this argument. Both will sell you the Snake
Oil you desire....just step right up and have your wallet handy.

Picture yourself as a Cop try'n to sort out the many stories from the many
witnesses after some kind of occurrence. Gore & Monckton are two of the
many witnesses that you have to interview, but their stories are wildly
different. The truth is probably no where close to either of their stories,
but somewhere in the middle. Thank the Lord for the other witnesses, eh?

Many people are interested in debating Gore, Ron; Gore is an international celebrity and a Nobel Prize winner. So of course people want to debate Gore, they hope that their prestige will increase that way. Lord Monckton is a relative nobody and a right wing extremist. He hopes to gain credibility, respectability by debating Gore.

But what is in it for Gore? He is hardly going to gain by debating a nobody like Lord Monckton. If Gore won the debate, the reaction would be big deal; anybody could win against an extremist. If Gore loses the debate, that will be a disaster for him. Either way, there is no incentive for Gore to debate Lord Monckton.

Now, if Lord Monckton can raise say 10 or 20 million $ and offer to donate it to green organizations to reduce greenhouse gases if Gore would debate him, I am sure Gore would be ready in a flash.

But short of that, why should an international celebrity like Gore debate a nobody extremist like Lord Monckton? I have a friend who plays golf (I don’t). If he challenged Tiger Woods for golf, do you think Woods will accept the challenge?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Yes, I too think they're both extremists selling Snake Oil.

 

[Tonington]

If Canada's only contribution is what is happening in Alberta & Saskatchewan,
then yeah....all our eggs would be in one basket, but it's hard to believe that the
rest of Canada isn't taking some initiative also...

Quebec has their own plan, BC has their carbon tax, I think Ontario has something as well. But it's Canada who signed the treaty, not BC, not Quebec, and not Ontario. Those provinces are represented at the COP-15 in Copenhagen, as they represent 75% of the Canadian population, and they want Ottawa to take a larger leadership role.

The federal response hasn't amounted to anything. My personal opinion is that this is a missed opportunity in Ottawa. This issue provides a good framework to address other issues, like inter-provincial trade barriers, and our falling productivity. The Government is making no plans, for an issue which requires long-term planning.

 

[AnnaG]

Quebec has their own plan, BC has their carbon tax, I think Ontario has something as well. But it's Canada who signed the treaty, not BC, not Quebec, and not Ontario. Those provinces are represented at the COP-15 in Copenhagen, as they represent 75% of the Canadian population, and they want Ottawa to take a larger leadership role.

The federal response hasn't amounted to anything. My personal opinion is that this is a missed opportunity in Ottawa. This issue provides a good framework to address other issues, like inter-provincial trade barriers, and our falling productivity. The Government is making no plans, for an issue which requires long-term planning.

Ditto

 

[Ron in Regina]

Yep....that tied to the American response can produce bad optics Globally
but here we are....plugging away, and it's good to hear than many are doing
something across this country. Ottawa can step forward and back the
initiatives taking place in this country regionally to a much further
extent too.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Quebec has their own plan, BC has their carbon tax, I think Ontario has something as well. But it's Canada who signed the treaty, not BC, not Quebec, and not Ontario. Those provinces are represented at the COP-15 in Copenhagen, as they represent 75% of the Canadian population, and they want Ottawa to take a larger leadership role.

The federal response hasn't amounted to anything. My personal opinion is that this is a missed opportunity in Ottawa. This issue provides a good framework to address other issues, like inter-provincial trade barriers, and our falling productivity. The Government is making no plans, for an issue which requires long-term planning.

It all breaks down on political lines, Tonington. BC, Ontario, Quebec have Liberal governments, they are doing something about it. Wherever there are Conservative governments (federally and provincially), they are doing squat, they are content in claiming that global warming is a hoax (perhaps generated by Al Qaeda to ruin Canada’s economy).

I think it comes down to the influence of Alberta oil lobby and religious right. At least federally, they are strong constituencies for the Conservatives.

 

[lone wolf]

It all breaks down on political lines, Tonington. BC, Ontario, Quebec have Liberal governments, they are doing something about it. Wherever there are Conservative governments (federally and provincially), they are doing squat, they are content in claiming that global warming is a hoax (perhaps generated by Al Qaeda to ruin Canada’s economy).

I think it comes down to the influence of Alberta oil lobby and religious right. At least federally, they are strong constituencies for the Conservatives.

So.... Are you Beavis or Butthead?

Whaddaya suppose calcium chloride - that "brine" that makes road salt work at lower temperatures - is doing for Liberal Ontario highways, wetlands and wildlife?

 

[Tonington]

Beavis or Butthead, reminds me a utoob video I saw recently

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P70SlEqX7oY

:lol:

 

[Ron in Regina]

It all breaks down on political lines, Tonington. BC, Ontario, Quebec have Liberal governments, they are doing something about it. Wherever there are Conservative governments (federally and provincially), they are doing squat, they are content in claiming that global warming is a hoax (perhaps generated by Al Qaeda to ruin Canada’s economy).

I think it comes down to the influence of Alberta oil lobby and religious right. At least federally, they are strong constituencies for the Conservatives.

The Left-Right Political Spectrum Stereotyping thing just doesn't fit into
every subject in every Thread on this Forum, or in Life for that matter.

Sometimes (much of the time) it's just a huge sidetrack to any discussion
outside of a discussion of the Left-Right Political Spectrum Stereotyping
thing.

 

[Dixie Cup]

[People don't say too much about Europe, because they actually met their Kyoto obligations. Yes, that's right, it's actually possible to do so without ruining your economy, and even without offsets. Europe makes their grade without offsets, and including international-offsets their reductions are roughly 50% greater than they had pledged.

Excuse me - Europe's economy has not been ruined? Try telling that to the individuals who are paying 2 and 3 times the amount for power and gas and are struggling not only with increased prices but a global meltdown as well.

As for "reducing their off-sets," I thought it was about reducing CO2 emissions? The fact that it hasn't happened is really disturbing and the fact that a few have gotten extremely rich as a result is despicable!

Aside: As for Copenhagen how can anyone accept giving hundreds of billions of dollars to countries without any accountability on how it's being spent (one of the demands of the poorer countries). It's unbelievable at best and economic suicide for us at its worst.

I don't know about you but I like heat in my house when it's -40 below.

JMO

 

[taxslave]

Contrary to what the ecoterrorists claim coal can be made to burn cleaner than natural gas or oil. CO2 emissions can also be captured and reused if there is an incentive to do so. Cap and trade is not the answer but a tax incentive to find more ways to reuse carbon would work. Perhaps integrating carbon producers with carbon users like steel mills. Make it profitable and industry will find a way to make it happen.

 

[lone wolf]

I wonder whatever happened to the ACE steam locomotive?

The Ultimate Steam Page

 

[Avro]

Contrary to what the ecoterrorists claim coal can be made to burn cleaner than natural gas or oil. CO2 emissions can also be captured and reused if there is an incentive to do so. Cap and trade is not the answer but a tax incentive to find more ways to reuse carbon would work. Perhaps integrating carbon producers with carbon users like steel mills. Make it profitable and industry will find a way to make it happen.

How about a carbon tax?

 

[Tonington]

Contrary to what the ecoterrorists claim coal can be made to burn cleaner than natural gas or oil. CO2 emissions can also be captured and reused if there is an incentive to do so. Cap and trade is not the answer but a tax incentive to find more ways to reuse carbon would work. Perhaps integrating carbon producers with carbon users like steel mills. Make it profitable and industry will find a way to make it happen.

Metallurgical coal is completely different than the coal used in power generating stations. You can't create met coal from flue emissions, it wouldn't be economically viable. Cap and trade, or any price on carbon is the incentive. If there is a commercially viable product then that is what the market excels at. I mean with cap and trade a company can still capture the carbon, and try to sell it to steel producers, if they develop the technology to do so.