Lance Armstrong-Guilty as Charged

[coldstream]

Now I get it, Armstrong took drugs and killed people. He's worse than Sarah Palin and Romney put together.

I don't know how Sarah Palin and Romney got into this discussion. I happen to think both are incompetent.. Romney rigidly follows the letter of law, while contemptuous flaunting its spirit. Lance outright ignored both letter and spirit.

If a America really wants to put someone who made himself filthy rich by founding a Vulture Fund to pick over the carcass of American industry in the desolate aftermath of the Free Trade paradigm.. well no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

But i wouldn't put politics and 'pure' sports into the same category. Certainly people like Armstrong are capable of dragging it into the same sewer as politics, at least modern politics, driven by greed and abuse of priviledge.. but essentially real sports as a mode of character building, integrity, honest exertion and sportsmanship.. has nothing to do with modern politics.

Seems to me to be a case of proof against common "knowledge". It should be quite simple to say whether he did dope up or not based upon proof. Common "knowledge" and other such things are simply speculation.
Allegations are just that - allegations.
http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/you-jury

Armstrong in fact has decided not to present a Defense to the Charges of the Doping Agency. Essentially a Nolo contendere (not contested) plea is an admission of guilt.. without recourse to any appeal.. however his publicity machine attempts to frame things.

 

[Mowich]

With all the tests he was given, you would think if he was doping he would have been caught at least one of the times. I'm still leaning towards him being innocent. The way they went after him it was nothing short of a witch hunt. They took the word of a formerly disgraced (and caught for doping) racer who has everything to gain by saying what they want him to say instead of the results of a large number of tests?

And Armstrong is the disgrace? I think there is a disgrace here, but I don't think it's him.

I should add that he never admitted his guilt(which should be the only way they can strip him of the titles), he just "enough is enough" and decided to give up on it all. After being hounded for numerous years, and spending countless amounts of dollars defending yourself, I believe his breaking point would be reached by the majority of people.

I'm with you on this one, Shadow.

 

[L Gilbert]

Armstrong in fact has decided not to present a Defense to the Charges of the Doping Agency.

I heard that.

Essentially a Nolo contendere (not contested) plea is an admission of guilt..

That's an assumption. Last I heard there was a variety of reasons why people "settle out of court", and guilt was only one of them. So it can hardly be construed as being proof to the logical and reasoning mind.
You just love kangaroo courts, don'tcha?

 

[Niflmir]

I heard that.That's an assumption. Last I heard there was a variety of reasons why people "settle out of court", and guilt was only one of them. So it can hardly be construed as being proof to the logical and reasoning mind.
You just love kangaroo courts, don'tcha?

People do love their black and white thinking. It is so much easier to live in a world without color.

 

[L Gilbert]

People do love their black and white thinking. It is so much easier to live in a world without color.

Yup. It makes prejudging based upon personal bias and preference before all the evidence is in much easier.

 

[gerryh]

Something to keep in mind, aside from never being tested positive, his sponsors are backing him and sticking with him, including Nike.

 

[Goober]

People do love their black and white thinking. It is so much easier to live in a world without color.

My opinion - Officials knew that shxt was happening- testing was lax- that said when it was tightened up they started catching people- They do not have evidence other than from others that broke the rules- While that can make people suspicious it does not equate to verifiable and clear proof that he had broken the rules.

But the court of public opinion has spoken - led by committee members who may have known all along about problems within the racing community but shut the fuk up.

Got to have a conviction to send a message - but what message has been sent.

 

[talloola]

I just listened to the ceo of the anti doping committee, and he said that they have overwhelming evidence
that armstrong and his team were doing 'blodd transfusions'.

They have no test that will find that evidence in a random test as it dissapears very quickly after
administring the transfusion.

They are 100% sure.

I accept their findings, but it doesn't change anything about my opinion toward lance armstrong, he
has to accept the findings, give up his medals and that is that, BUT his foundation doesn't stop
doing for others, it is a huge success, supported by Nike and others, and Nike has allready made
a statement that they will stand by him and his foundation and continue to be a partner in his wonderful work to help others with cancer.

Life goes on, can't undo whats been done, the good will continue and the bad will come and take his
medals away, and whatever goes along with that, so what goes round comes round, that seems to have
happened, and he will keep moving forward with the good part of his life, and substance abuse will
continue in the cycling world and other sports, and nothing will change in that respect.

 

[gopher]

now in the bamster's us it's guilty until proven innocent.

Blame Obama!
Blame Obama!
Blame Obama!

This is total BS.. he is just tired of fighting with tour de France..

Actually, it was the US anti-doping agency. UCI covers the TDF and they had already cleared him.

 

[bill barilko]

Obviously Lance Armstrong is a witch.

Burn The Witch Burn The Witch!!!

 

[shadowshiv]

I assume he has taken substances that are illegal in sports, but after hundreds of clean drug tests,
and many many allegations of missuse of the substances without any proof, other than others ratting
on him, and I don't understand why team mates would do that, as he didn't do it against any of his
teamates who were tested positive. Why did they, even if he is guilty.

My gut feeling is that they didn't want to become the next target in the crosshairs. After all, the Witch Hunts of old never stopped at just one.

 

[coldstream]

Actually, it was the US anti-doping agency. UCI covers the TDF and they had already cleared him.

That's not the case. These organizations had not proceeded with the case, despite overwhelming evidence of his guilt.. possibly under intimidation of lawsuits from Armstrong. It was left to the US Doping Agency to carry forward the case. That is a big difference from 'clearing him'.

The U.S. Justice department declined to prosecute him.. not for Doping (which is not a criminal offense).. but for the criminal act of lying about it to Federal Investigators.. which is a complex prosecution.. and one they've had little success with in cases against Barry Bonds or Tom Clements (but with success against Marion Jones).

The International Cycling Union is a signatory to the Anti-Doping Conventions of the World Anti-Doping Agency and in contractually bound to strip Armstrong of his titles and his prize money.. for all 7 Tour de France wins, his Bronze medal at the 2000 Olympics and any other titles has. Any other signatory association is obliged to ban him for life from their competitions, including the Triathalons which he has competed in recently.

What's more some of his sponsorship agreements have 'clawback' provisions.. which means he will be obligated to return all that sponsorhip money if he is convicted of doping violations.

Armstrong could be in court for years fighting civil litigation for sponsorship and prize money. His sponsorship will dry up completely now... and my guess so will his ability to draw in charitable donations. He could end up broke.

I heard that.That's an assumption. Last I heard there was a variety of reasons why people "settle out of court", and guilt was only one of them. So it can hardly be construed as being proof to the logical and reasoning mind.
You just love kangaroo courts, don'tcha?

That's no assumption. Only in your vague, fluffy, amoral, relativistic universe is that an assumption LG.

Armstrong QUIT in the face of overwhelming evidence of his guilt... including sworn testimony of at least 10 former team members.. and a positive drug test in 2009. He thought he could just stifle all of the condemning evidence by just walking away from it.

But the evidence is still going to be presented because it involves other cases of doping in cycling.. some of his former colleagues are going to write books about it (Tad Hamilton).. and he is likely to be the subject of civil litigation for years.

And in every legal sense, and Nollo Contendere of charges is deemed to be an admission of Guilt. Innocent people fight for their reputation and good name... guilty people and cheats put no real value on those things.

 

[gopher]

''Whether the UCI will recognize USADA’s ban remains to be seen. The international governing body fought a pitched battle with the U.S. agency over jurisdiction in the Armstrong case and could refuse to honor its decision or appeal it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.''

USADA officially bans Lance Armstrong for life, strips him of Tour titles


Contrary to ColdStream's belief, UCI has NOT decided to accede to the decision because it has not agreed that it has jurisdiction over the case.

 

[Walter]

A great defence of Lance.
The American Spectator : Lance Versus the Losers

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

A dude that took steroids/doped being ratted-out by others that took steroids/doped and judged by those that took steroids/doped.

He may be remembered by his fanboys but will no more be truly respected anymore than that hulkster Barry Bonds is.

Or Ben Johnson.
Or Roger Clemons.

 

[Praxius]

I'm sorry, but if it was me and I spent that many years working hard to win that many races, Big Races mind you, and I was being accused of something I never did, thus having all that hard work and sacrifice of being away from my family to provide for them by doing something I enjoyed, I'd take them right to the courts to see what they have to say, make them look like idiots and prove them wrong and keeping my self respect.

If this is a witch hunt, then bring it on. Witch hunts can only go so far in "Modern" courts of law. If all you got is hearsay and rumours, then the bluff is called.

But he just tosses that chunk of his life away just like that? Using the "I'm going to focus on my family" excuse?

You mean you haven't focused on them this whole time and just now decide to focus on them?

Interesting timing to say the least.

It's an interesting choice to make in this situation when everybody saw him as a fighter who went through cancer & still kept winning & fighting..... But not this time?

7 titles are going to be gone just like that.

There are many types of drugs on the tests. All you need to do is know which drugs will be tested and use the ones not well known about. When they get added to the tests, switch to the next drug going around. It happens in many, many sports around the world.

If he has nothing to hide, prove your innocence and then have the courts close the book on this and double jepordy or however you spell it, so that nobody can bring this crap up ever again so he can live in peace.

What he decided to do just doesn't make sense, and to me is just a legal loophole mumbo jumbo play to hang on to some credibility, then to ensure he lost it all with everybody including his foundation.

This way he'll still have the benefit of the doubt for some supporters, rather than having no one.

 

[EagleSmack]

Or Ben Johnson.
Or Roger Clemons.

Roger was found not guilty. Although I am so far from a Roger Clemons fan I do like how he stood up to Congress and said "Prove it... you got nothing on me". Then he was found not guilty when they took him to trial.

 

[petros]

If this is a witch hunt, then bring it on. Witch hunts can only go so far in "Modern" courts of law. If all you got is hearsay and rumours, then the bluff is called.

Witches were drug dealers and user. There is nothing modern about the way the law treats drug dealers or users today.

There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Praxius]

The other thing to point out here is that those in here defending Armstrong don't know if he's truly guilty or innocent than the other group who thinks the opposite.

It could be nothing but a witch hunt, nothing more and he's innocent. But now you'll never know

 

[Walter]

The other thing to point out here is that those in here defending Armstrong don't know if he's truly guilty or innocent than the other group who thinks the opposite.

It could be nothing but a witch hunt, nothing more and he's innocent. But now you'll never know

Innocent until proven guilty.