Kinder Morgan announces suspension of Trans Mountain expansion

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
First you said that there was no agreement. Now you say that BC and the feds are at an impasse. If there was no agreement, then there would be no impasse.

But that's not the case. You cannot seem to make up your mind about the agreement that is, and is not, in place.

I think you should walk away. I don't know if you purposely lie, or are just messed up. 14 years old boys like you do get caught up often.
You are the 14 year old twit. There has never been an agreement between the present BC government an Ottawa. The BC Social Credit/Liberals (conservatives) made the agreement against the will of the populace because they were/are corporate puppets pigging out at the trough.

 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
You should be telling your friend Waldo. :lol: He said there wasn't, and said there was.

But there is an agreement. It's a federal one which BC will obey. After all, you do not want Justin Trudeau as an enemy! :lol:
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
the agreement to build the pipeline is contingent upon there being an effective spill clean up protocol.

there is none.

the federal government has been unable to prove the spill clean up capability because it is impossible - so they have chosen to lie about it and hope it never happens.
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
So now you are saying that there isn't one.

There is.

There isn't.

There is.

Waldo and Cliffy, there is an agreement, and all your nonsensical talk is not going to unmake it. :lol:

Now both of you get to bed.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
8,181
0
36
Ontario
Shhh. What's left of your brain needs sleep. Wait for the old woman and the bear.

[youtube]NQ5ku4z1pjs[/youtube]
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
11,619
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Olympus Mons
Even with all of them oil subsidies. Tsk tsk tsk.
But...but... the shiny pony said it WILL get built. You even created a thread about it.
Trans Mountain ‘pipeline is going to get built’: Trudeau dismisses B.C.’s bitumen ban
Of course Trudeau will blame everything and everyone else for this except his own obstructionism during the Harper years. Which ironically is the main reason the pipeline isn't going to get built.

Trudeau: F*cking up Canada even before he became Prime Minister.

Mr Trudeau was pointing out today that this pipeline is in the "national interest"

Unlike the pipeline through, say, Quebec.

That one is apparently not in the "national interest".

Nobody getting in trouble for not wanting a pipeline except BC.

Why is BC being treated differently?
Because BC has 2.5x less the population of Quebec and isn't the shiny pony's home base. You should know by now that PMs from Quebec, regardless of which party they belong to, put Quebec ahead of everyone else, even at the expense of the rest of the country.

the agreement to build the pipeline is contingent upon there being an effective spill clean up protocol.

there is none.

the federal government has been unable to prove the spill clean up capability because it is impossible - so they have chosen to lie about it and hope it never happens.
So uh, what's the clean up protocol for a tanker train accident?
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
I am not sure what can be done here.

The Alberta Premier has to push for this pipeline or she will get clobbered at the polls.

The BC Premier has to push against it because he got elected by promising to do just that.

The Canadian PM has chosen to lie about the environmental danger posed here and let us be clear: there is no way to clean this shit up. If it spills in our ocean it will sink to the bottom and it will stay there until someone scraps it up.

We are at an impasse and if the Premier of BC allows this thing to happen he and his party will be history.

First two are right . TrudOWE didn't lie. You simply choose to believe a lie pushed by foreign interests.
You are right about the Non Democratic Parasites being history.Horgan backed himself into a corner that he cannot escape from and proved that the NDP do not represent working people.Or care about the economy.This is what happens when you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
Hopefully the Liberals will be back in power before too much more damage is done to our economy.
SInce recall starts in November expect either a lot of byelections or the government to fall.

You are the 14 year old twit. There has never been an agreement between the present BC government an Ottawa. The BC Social Credit/Liberals (conservatives) made the agreement against the will of the populace because they were/are corporate puppets pigging out at the trough.


All polls are consistant with 80+ % in favor. I would say that is the will of the people. Or at least the ones that work and pay taxes.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,555
8,150
113
B.C.
I am not sure what can be done here.

The Alberta Premier has to push for this pipeline or she will get clobbered at the polls.

The BC Premier has to push against it because he got elected by promising to do just that.

The Canadian PM has chosen to lie about the environmental danger posed here and let us be clear: there is no way to clean this shit up. If it spills in our ocean it will sink to the bottom and it will stay there until someone scraps it up.

We are at an impasse and if the Premier of BC allows this thing to happen he and his party will be history.
No the NDP campaign focused on affordable housing . The Green Party focused their campaign on pipelines and environmental issues.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I find it funny that not one Conservative actually has a plan on how to make this work any better than Trudeau.

Absolutely hilarious!
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
So, how many units has Horgan built in the past year?

I've been thinking that this traitorous bastard to all working Canadians should be charged with such. It sure doesn't take much talent to sit around singing songs and whining, while many are being a hypocrite having driven or travelled by car to the spot where they are doing the whining.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
The deal isn't dead. It's KM's way of moving things forward. :lol:

KM will be "suspending all non-essential spending". Ho hum. Things are still proceeding. This is called the art of the deal. The government will be compelled to move it forward. It's also nice to see Alberta helping to get the deal finished. :lol:

Lookie yonder, comin'! Comin' down the KM line!
Lookie yonder, comin'! Comin' down the KM line!
It's Kinder Morgan black gold! Crossin' them border lines!

Does Trudeau have a Trans Mountain plan that goes beyond talk? | CBC News


Both the AB gvt and the Feds have announced that they will consider direct investment into the KM line.

... So much for the ecoweenies that think they have a choice.

 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
22,041
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Twin Moose Creek
Trudeau, cabinet meet to talk Trans Mountain

OTTAWA - Faced with an escalating battle between British Columbia and Alberta as well as a spooked investment community, federal cabinet ministers will gather Tuesday for an emergency meeting in search of a way to convince Kinder Morgan to go forward with its Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. The House of Commons is in the middle of a two-week break, during which times cabinet rarely meets. But ministers are hightailing it back to Ottawa to try and salvage the pipeline project they green-lighted 17 months ago.
Kinder Morgan announced late Sunday it was calling a halt to all non-essential spending on the project, giving Ottawa a deadline of May 31 to convince the company and its investors that the pipeline can prevail over the opposition that now threatens to block it.
The fight between B.C. and Alberta escalated Monday as Alberta Premier Rachel Notley promised legislation this week that would, once passed, give Alberta the ability to reduce domestic oil supplies into B.C. Such a move would cause already high gas prices in B.C. to spike, ramping up the pressure from pipeline proponents on the province to back down.
B.C. Premier John Horgan, however, heads a minority NDP government that clings to power only with the support of three Green party members under an agreement to fight the pipeline. So far, he's shown no sign of giving in.
The pipeline is within federal jurisdiction, but Horgan is trying to use provincial powers to limit how much oil — ultimately destined for export markets overseas — can flow through it, effectively killing any reason for expansion.
Notley said Monday she expects the federal government to follow Alberta's lead and put economic and fiscal pressure on B.C. to back off. She also wants Ottawa to use the courts or legislation to assert its jurisdictional authority over the pipeline, and to put its money where its mouth is — either as insurance for worried investors or even as a stakeholder in the project.

B.C. bracing for response from Ottawa and Alberta in Trans Mountain push

Ever since the federal government approved the Trans Mountain pipeline twinning in the fall of 2016 there has been verbal sparring between British Columbia and both the federal and Alberta governments. But now that Kinder Morgan has suspended all “non-essential activities and related spending” on the expansion the rhetoric could soon turn to action.
Both the federal government and Alberta government have options to apply pressure on British Columbia.
Ottawa has said it is looking "at all available tools" in its attempt to convince Premier John Horgan's government to back away from its opposition. And the Alberta government is in the midst of drafting legislation that would stop the shipment of oil and gas from the province into British Columbia.
Here is a look at some potential options from both levels of government.
Restricting health care and social transfers
The federal government transfers billions of dollars every year into British Columbia's coffers. The 2018/19 budget documents show Ottawa contributing $6.9 billion in health and transfer transfers. That total goes up to $7.4 billion in 2020/21.
"We are going to stand up for the federal jurisdiction, the federal right, to determine projects are in the national interest and get them built," Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said.
The money goes directly into the health system and social service transfer. But the B.C. government is insistent a move this drastic would be "unlawful."

"It would be inappropriate, I believe, for the federal government to threaten or to try and coerce B.C," said B.C. Environment Minister George Heyman.
In total, the B.C. government is budgeting to receive $8.9 billion this year from Ottawa. Alberta Premier Rachel Notley is in favour of Trudeau's government applying some financial pressure.
"They can put economic pressure, fiscal pressure, onto the province of B.C.," Notley said. "They can assert their jurisdiction either legislatively or through the courts."
Stalling transit funding
The federal government has been generous to British Columbia over the last few years. That generosity has led to record-breaking promises for spending on child care, housing and billions earmarked for public transit. But with the war over Kinder Morgan hitting a boiling point, the cheques could be held back.
"What we are seeing today is a government and a premier that believe they act in complete isolation," BC Liberal leader Andrew Wilkinson said. "What you have at the end of the day is a government and a premier who have created uncertainty in the marketplace."
READ MORE: $4.1B federal infrastructure deal unlocks B.C. transit funding
The province and the federal government recently signed a 10-year deal, which will see $4.1 billion in infrastructure funding spent in the province. The money is earmarked to cover the feds' 40 per cent share of Surrey light rail transit (LRT) and a Broadway subway line. But Trudeau still needs to come to B.C. to officially announce the projects. That is seeming unlikely with the tension between the two sides as high as it is.
Limit coastal protection
Getting the previous Liberal government to approve the Trans Mountain pipeline was a long, drawn-out process. Former premier Christy Clark was only willing to sign off on the approval after Ottawa came forward with support for the LNG industry and a $1.5-billion ocean protection plan. But what if the Trudeau government felt the only way to get to Horgan was to withdraw that money?
"The federal government has stated they are going to go ahead with the plan regardless," Heyman said. "We have said we are going to take actions within our jurisdiction to protect our environment."
READ MORE: Spill equipment, orca study among newly unveiled details of Oceans Protection Plan
The federal government also controls the coast guard that monitors British Columbia's coastline. But any action in restricting that work could pose serious risk to safety on the water.
Cut the supply of oil and gas
While the federal government is reluctant to talk about specific actions, the Alberta government has been more direct. Alberta Premier Rachel Notley says her government is introducing legislation this week to give Alberta the power to reduce oil flows to B.C.
"We will be moving forward very aggressively," Notley said. "I am very hopeful there is a way forward for all of us. It doesn't have to be this way."
READ MORE: British Columbians could be facing gas at $2 to $3 per litre without Alberta oil
Experts have indicated that sort of measure could drive gas prices in British Columbia into the $2 to $3 a litre range.
"I think what Alberta is potentially talking about would be extremely unlawful," Heyman said.
Following Horgan's conversation with Justin Trudeau on Sunday he told reporters “there were no threats, there was no intimidation” from the prime minister. But the longer this goes on, that could quickly change.

There should be protesters lined up to help prevent this

A volunteer cleanup group operating in Kelowna, B.C., is raising concerns over people dumping waste, garbage and pollutants in or near bodies of water in the Okanagan as the threat of spring flooding looms.
Illegal dumping remains a serious problem, says Kane Blake, head of the Okanagan Forest Task Force which has been cleaning up the area's forests since 2016.
"It's just disgusting," he said. "If you don't know right from wrong now, you'll never know."
Blake said any flooding this spring will move contaminated waters into bodies of water frequented by the public.
Another pressing concern for Blake is the potential damage that could be done to any wildlife that drink from contaminated water.
"We see it all the time. You see it in the spring run-off," said Blake.
"You actually see garbage floating down. It's very disgusting to see."
Blake said he recently obtained photos of a truck that was left partially submerged in water near Postill Lake during the weekend and leaked motor oil into the environment. Blake said the photos identify the vehicle and he is working with the RCMP to locate the owner.
The leaking truck was reported shortly after another member of the group found a separate dumping site on the shore of Mill Creek, a waterway which eventually feeds into Okanagan Lake.

Challenges to enforcing laws

Last year, in an effort to dissuade any would-be polluters, the task force positioned web cameras in the forest , but Blake said illegal dumpers have so far not been deterred.
The Regional District of Central Okanagan's waste reduction coordinator, Cynthia Coates, said enforcing dumping laws in B.C.'s densely forested areas can be tricky.
Coates said her district assists in clean-ups where they can, but enforcing laws to prohibit illegal dumping on Crown land falls under the jurisdiction of the province.
Also, the type of pollution and the exact location of the contamination can complicate which level of government has the jurisdiction to enforce dumping laws, she said.
She said there is an opportunity for overlapping jurisdictions to work on a streamlined response process.
Coates said her district tries to clean up garbage as soon as it is reported, but anyone who sees illegal dumping that poses a serious environmental threat should phone the province's Report All Poachers and Polluters tip line at 1-877-952-7277.
​Blake said there needs to be higher fines and more stringent enforcement to stop the dumping, and said polluters continue to muddy the waters because they don't fear strong repercussions.
He said the Okanagan Forest Task Force is now working to install high-definition surveillance cameras at dumping "hot spots" which he hopes will help better identify culprits.