It Can Happen only in Texas.

[SirJosephPorter]

Likewise Gays for instance, are prohibited from the military, claiming they harm unit cohesion, or can't fight, or have poor emotional balance or organization skills.

Zzarchov, this applies only to USA, many other countries (including Britain) have no problems with gays serving in military.

Canadian military (which performed such a useful function in Afghanistan, even USA acknowledged Canada’s contribution), has no problems with gays in military. After gay marriage was legalized in Canada, military started permitting gay marriages as well. First gay marriage in the Canadian military took place a few months after it was legalized.

 

[RanchHand]

I know this has already been pointed out, but perhaps it has been missed.
The USA & Canada differ in population by nine fold. Lets qualify your
statements in that, the ONLY time you balance your argument on a %'age
basis (the "Roman Catholic Church" thing) is to minimize that number by
population.

Either state ALL your points as a percentage of the total population, or none
of you points as a percentage, but don't attempt to twist the numbers in cherry
pick'n your methodology. I'd like to see your examples all expressed as a %.

Just 'cuz someone happens to be gay, does that determine which religion they
gravitate towards, if they wish to follow a religion at all? I don't think so. For all
I know, there are more Gay Roman Catholic Americans than there are Canadians,
but that just comes back to the question of, so what?

Personally, I don't even understand the whole kafuffle over Gay marriage.
Really....so what? If two homosexual people want to inflict marriage upon their
relationship and make it a legal and binding union in front of their friends, family,
and the tax man....is it really anybody's business except their own, their families,
their friends, and whomever they pay their taxes to?

Gay people are gay, 'cuz that's just the way it is. I'm sure they (& any of us) don't
get out of bed in the morning, and have to make a conscience decision as to
which sexual orientation they're going to be that day, or week, or year....but does
that mean that gay people don't deserve to have the same rights as hetro folks for
some reason? I don't even understand the argument against gay marriages...8O

Fair point about the pct vs nbrs. The article I linked to expressed it as a percentage and that's what I copied. Below it's expressed not as percentages. You may have missed the point about bringing up the Catholic church. SirJosephPorter identified the Roman Catholic church as an American anti-gay group and I thought just perhaps that's a bit ridiculuous coming from a citizen of a country where nearly half the population is Catholic.

I object to gay marriage. I did not say one iota about gay rights other than that. I would guess the tide is turning, but right now about 95% of the world's countries ban it. In Iran you are probably buried up to your neck and stoned for it, yet SirJoe starts an inflammatory thread with "Texas (George Bush’s Texas) is famous for its anti-homosexual hatred, they have laws on the books trashing homosexuality and they are not afraid to use them." and then continues the post by describing how someone objected to two homosexuals kissing in a mall in George Bush's Texas.

At this point you have Canadian on Canadian backslapping for something that can't be substantiated other than by doing a meaningless google search. Talking to SirJoe is like talking to a wall.


4 times as many Americans as Canadians are protected by anti-gay discrimination.
2 times as many Americans as Canadians are eligible for civil unions.
5 times as many US states as Canadian provinces make consensus at the state level more difficult
10 times as many US citizens as Canadian citizens make consensus at the federal level more difficult
5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic yet you identify the Roman Catholic Church as a US anti-homosexual hate group.

 

[Spade]

To clarify. 43.1% (Statistics Canada) identify themselves as Catholic? I doubt if 215.5% of Americans are Catholic.
Spade the Grouch!
PS
67.5 million Catholics in the US
14.2 million in Canada

 

[Zzarchov]

Likewise Gays for instance, are prohibited from the military, claiming they harm unit cohesion, or can't fight, or have poor emotional balance or organization skills.

Zzarchov, this applies only to USA, many other countries (including Britain) have no problems with gays serving in military.

Canadian military (which performed such a useful function in Afghanistan, even USA acknowledged Canada’s contribution), has no problems with gays in military. After gay marriage was legalized in Canada, military started permitting gay marriages as well. First gay marriage in the Canadian military took place a few months after it was legalized.

I realise that, the post in question clearly spells out that this is in to American military mindset.

 

[Zzarchov]

4 times as many Americans as Canadians are protected by anti-gay discrimination.
2 times as many Americans as Canadians are eligible for civil unions.
5 times as many US states as Canadian provinces make consensus at the state level more difficult
10 times as many US citizens as Canadian citizens make consensus at the federal level more difficult
5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic yet you identify the Roman Catholic Church as a US anti-homosexual hate group.

44% per capita as many Americans as Canadians are protected from anti-gay discrimination.
22% per capita as many Americans as Canadians are eligible for civil unions.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic yet you identify the Roman Catholic Church as a US anti-homosexual hate group.

RanchHand, Spade has already demonstrated that this argument is nonsense (see how easy it is when I can get “Canadians running wild on this board over it”?).

Anyway, what does the number of Catholics have to do with anything? I am saying that Catholic Church is the hate group, not Catholics, there is a big difference.

Just as Catholics ignore the Church’s teachings over contraception, abortion etc., they also ignore Church’s teaching about homosexuality. As I have mentioned before, support for gay marriage runs at 60% in Canada, clearly a substantial number of Catholics support gay marriage in Canada. But the Catholic Church doesn’t, Catholic Bishops were in the vanguard of opposition when the issue was being debated.

So the fact that there are more Catholics in Canada (though nowhere near five times as many, as Spade pointed out) is not inconsistent with the premise that Catholic Church is a hate group for gays.

 

[Tyr]

Fair point about the pct vs nbrs. The article I linked to expressed it as a percentage and that's what I copied. Below it's expressed not as percentages. You may have missed the point about bringing up the Catholic church. SirJosephPorter identified the Roman Catholic church as an American anti-gay group and I thought just perhaps that's a bit ridiculuous coming from a citizen of a country where nearly half the population is Catholic.

I object to gay marriage. I did not say one iota about gay rights other than that. I would guess the tide is turning, but right now about 95% of the world's countries ban it. In Iran you are probably buried up to your neck and stoned for it, yet SirJoe starts an inflammatory thread with "Texas (George Bush’s Texas) is famous for its anti-homosexual hatred, they have laws on the books trashing homosexuality and they are not afraid to use them." and then continues the post by describing how someone objected to two homosexuals kissing in a mall in George Bush's Texas.

At this point you have Canadian on Canadian backslapping for something that can't be substantiated other than by doing a meaningless google search. Talking to SirJoe is like talking to a wall.


4 times as many Americans as Canadians are protected by anti-gay discrimination.
2 times as many Americans as Canadians are eligible for civil unions.
5 times as many US states as Canadian provinces make consensus at the state level more difficult
10 times as many US citizens as Canadian citizens make consensus at the federal level more difficult
5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic yet you identify the Roman Catholic Church as a US anti-homosexual hate group.

4 times as many Americans as Canadians are protected by anti-gay discrimination.
2 times as many Americans as Canadians are eligible for civil unions.
5 times as many US states as Canadian provinces make consensus at the state level more difficult
10 times as many US citizens as Canadian citizens make consensus at the federal level more difficult
5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic yet you identify the Roman Catholic Church as a US anti-homosexual hate group.

where do you get these numbers from? Better yet what is your formula for conversion?

From a purely mathematical standpoint they make no sense.

The population of Canada is 33,580,000
The US is 305,954,000

the conversion is X 9.11

check your figures again

 

[unclepercy]

:roll: Oh for God's sake. You blame Texas for everything. Let me as this question, which is far more interesting to me.

Can two people of the same sex marry if they are straight? I don't see why not.

Uncle

 

[SirJosephPorter]

:roll: Oh for God's sake. You blame Texas for everything. Let me as this question, which is far more interesting to me.

Can two people of the same sex marry if they are straight? I don't see why not.

Uncle

Unclepercy, Texas does seem to make it into news in all sorts so negative ways (home of George Bush, highest number of executions in USA, anti-Sodomy law locking up criminals for ten years, the incidence at the mall described in this thread etc.).

No doubt good things must be happening in Texas, as elsewhere, but they never make it into the news.

 

[Unforgiven]

:roll: Oh for God's sake. You blame Texas for everything. Let me as this question, which is far more interesting to me.

Can two people of the same sex marry if they are straight? I don't see why not.

Uncle

Sure, in some places, but what would be the point? Someone who doesn't particularly care for dogs can just go buy one. Those who can't drive can buy a car and of course anyone of age who doesn't drink can buy all the alcohol they want. But what's the point?

A better question is, Should two people who love and are in love with each other, be able to ligitimize their union through marriage if they commit to the vows they speak?

 

[RanchHand]

5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic yet you identify the Roman Catholic Church as a US anti-homosexual hate group.

RanchHand, Spade has already demonstrated that this argument is nonsense (see how easy it is when I can get “Canadians running wild on this board over it”?).

Anyway, what does the number of Catholics have to do with anything? I am saying that Catholic Church is the hate group, not Catholics, there is a big difference.

Just as Catholics ignore the Church’s teachings over contraception, abortion etc., they also ignore Church’s teaching about homosexuality. As I have mentioned before, support for gay marriage runs at 60% in Canada, clearly a substantial number of Catholics support gay marriage in Canada. But the Catholic Church doesn’t, Catholic Bishops were in the vanguard of opposition when the issue was being debated.

So the fact that there are more Catholics in Canada (though nowhere near five times as many, as Spade pointed out) is not inconsistent with the premise that Catholic Church is a hate group for gays.

The issue is that you, a Canadian, identified the Catholic church as an American gay hating organization. The irony is that Canada has nearly twice the percentage of Catholics as the US. You can dance around this for a dozen more posts but it will not make this irony go away.

I got my stats on the percentage of Roman Catholics from the web site I linked to.
Using Spades numbers (67 and 14) and long division I get a result of 5 times as many Catholics in the US as Canada. What's your answer?

I used 300,000,000 and 30,000,000 for the populations of our 2 countries.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The issue is that you, a Canadian, identified the Catholic Church as an American gay hating organization. The irony is that Canada has nearly twice the percentage of Catholics as the US. You can dance around this for a dozen more posts but it will not make this irony go away.

RanchHand, there is no irony here; the concept is perfectly simple to understand. I called Catholic Church a hate group towards gays (and I stand by it), not the American (or Canadian) Catholics. There is a big difference.

In fact, there are many prominent Catholic politicians in USA who are strong champions of gay rights (Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden etc.). And for that they have incurred the wrath of Catholic Church.

So I called Catholic Church a hate group, not the Catholics. If you don’t understand the difference, that is your problem.

Using Spades numbers (67 and 14) and long division I get a result of 5 times as many Catholics in the US as Canada. What's your answer?

You seem to be a stranger to the concept of percentages. Percentages are more important than absolute encumbers. Roughly 22% Americans and 45% Canadians identify themselves as Catholic. So more Canadians identify themselves as Catholics than Americans do.

If you are such a firm believer in absolute numbers (you evidently seem to feel that percentages are meaningless), then answer my question which I have posed in several of my posts.

India has many more Christians than Belgium. Since Belgium is obviously a Christian country would you also say that India is a Christian country??

 

[Colpy]

Sir Porter, I take exception to the label "hate group" as applied to those that disapprove of homosexuality........such an attitude is arrogant in the extreme.

The attitude of the Church, often very poorly expressed, should be "love the sinner, hate the sin"........that the Church disapproves of homosexuality does NOT make them a "hate group" in any way shape or form. And I'm NOT a Catholic.

Now, the story goes that Islamic scholars were having a debate on homsexuality called "The Question of Homosexuality: Should Homosexuals be Stoned, Hanged, Shot, or Thrown Off High Buildings?".....yet I somehow doubt you would call Islam a "religion of Hate"......would you? And if you did, you'd soon be hauled in front of the Canada Human Rights Commission.....

BTW, my only surviving brother is gay......and I disapprove, as well as love him dearly.....does that make me a "hater"?

You paint with a broad brush.....too broad.....

 

[SirJosephPorter]

yet I somehow doubt you would call Islam a "religion of Hate"......would you? And if you did, you'd soon be hauled in front of the Canada Human Rights Commission.....

Colpy, I did NOT call Catholic religion a religion of hate, I called it a hate group towards gays. I did not say it was a hate group in general (really, I think they should give courses in how to read in our schools, many people here seem totally incapable of reading a post in a straightforward manner).

Thus there are many things about Catholic religion I like. Its compassion towards poor, its opposition to death penalty etc. It even has an enlightened attitude towards science (it learned its lesson after persecuting scientists in medieval Europe). Thus it embraces evolution, which the religious right nuts reject.

However, when it comes to gays, it is very much a hate group.

Should Homosexuals be Stoned, Hanged, Shot, or Thrown Off High Buildings?".....yet I somehow doubt you would call Islam a "religion of Hate"......would you?

For your information Colpy, I have called Islam a religion of hate, in another context. In a recent thread I was having a discussion with eanassir, and there I wrote the following:

So let us see, homosexuals are put to death, women who commit adultery are stoned to death, any woman can be killed by her father, her son, her brother etc. if that father, son or brother thinks that his honour has been violated.

And this is the religion that you proclaim is the true religion, the one that everybody should embrace? Well, you can keep it. I have no desire to kill my wife, my mother or my sister (I don’t have a daughter), no matter what they do.

Now I may not have said it in so many words, but I have no problem with saying it here. In my opinion, Islam is a religion of hate towards women and homosexuals.

 

[Colpy]

Colpy, I did NOT call Catholic religion a religion of hate, I called it a hate group towards gays. I did not say it was a hate group in general (really, I think they should give courses in how to read in our schools, many people here seem totally incapable of reading a post in a straightforward manner).

Oh, well Excuse me!!!!!

Perhaps you should climb down off your high horse long enough to enroll in that reading comprehension class you seem to think the REST of us need........NOWHERE did I say you called Catholicism a "religion of hate".........what I DID say was you called the Catholic Church a "hate group".....which you did.

Although the difference is merely irrelevant semantics.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

what I DID say was you called the Catholic Church a "hate group".....which you did.

Copy, there is a big difference between ‘hate group’ and ‘hate group toward gays’. Calling a group ‘hate group’ implies that all or most of is policies are hate oriented. Thus, KKK or the Nazi Party could be considered hate groups.

Catholic Church on the other hand, has many admirable, worthy policies. But when it comes to homosexuality, it is a hate group.

.NOWHERE did I say you called Catholicism a "religion of hate".

No you didn’t. but then what was the following question about?

yet I somehow doubt you would call Islam a "religion of Hate"......would you?

If you ask me this question, there is the clear implication that you think I called Catholicism a ‘religion of hate’. After all you didn’t ask me

yet I somehow doubt you would call Islam a " Hate group towards gays"......would you?

So at least to me, the implication was clear. You implied that I said Catholicism is a religion of hate and then wondered why I wouldn’t say the same thing of Islam.

 

[Tyr]

The issue is that you, a Canadian, identified the Catholic church as an American gay hating organization. The irony is that Canada has nearly twice the percentage of Catholics as the US. You can dance around this for a dozen more posts but it will not make this irony go away.

I got my stats on the percentage of Roman Catholics from the web site I linked to.
Using Spades numbers (67 and 14) and long division I get a result of 5 times as many Catholics in the US as Canada. What's your answer?

I used 300,000,000 and 30,000,000 for the populations of our 2 countries.

I used 300,000,000 and 30,000,000 for the populations of our 2 countries.

Close... but still wrong. Try x9.11

and yes, there are more Catholics in Canada as a percentage - it's the Quebec factor.

Are there alot of "practising" Catholics in either country. Not really. It's a "birth identifier" and has a low percentage of ardent believers

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Tyr, there has been a particular sea change in Québec. A generation ago it was highly Catholic, very conservative. I think it was Quebec who imprisoned Dr. Morgenthaler for performing abortions, by using some extra legal techniques (or was it Ontario?).

These days Quebec is the most liberal province in Canada. It has thrown off the yoke of Catholic Church in a big way.

 

[RanchHand]

"Using Spades numbers (67 and 14) and long division I get a result of 5 times as many Catholics in the US as Canada. What's your answer?

You seem to be a stranger to the concept of percentages. Percentages are more important than absolute encumbers. Roughly 22% Americans and 45% Canadians identify themselves as Catholic. So more Canadians identify themselves as Catholics than Americans do."

I have no idea what you are trying to say. I have expressed nbr Catholics US vs Canada as:
43% of Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic vs 24% in the US
5 times as many Americans as Canadians identify themselves as Roman Catholic
How else would you like me to state the difference?

"So I called Catholic Church a hate group, not the Catholics. If you don’t understand the difference, that is your problem."

No, you listed it as an American hate group. Thus the 20 posts comparing nbr Catholics US vs Canada.
What makes it a hate group? It doesn't agree with your opinion? If a Catholic misses mass on Sunday it's a mortal sin. Does that make the church an anti-NFL hate group? Unless the rescinding of the restriction on eating meat on Friday was retroactive, there's a lot of Canadians burning in hell even as we speak. Did that make the Catholic church an anti-Chicken farmer hate group? Obviously you can say you strongly disagree with the Catholic church's stand on gays, but to call them a hate group is mighty narrow minded. You strike me as wanting to be a free thinker as long as whatever it is agrees with you. Look at your opening post to the thread. You might as well have led by saying George Bush's Texas will lynch you if you're gay as a lead in to a story about some people objecting to 2 homosexuals kissing in a mall.

 

[lone wolf]

If it takes a chicken and a half a day and a half to lay and egg and a half, how long does it take a frog with a wooden leg to kick the seeds from a dill pickle?