Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

Does Israel have the right to exist with secure borders free from attack


  • Total voters
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CUBert

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Aug 15, 2010
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Effects of land blockade on Gaza

There have been several reports and studies analysing the effect of the blockade on Gaza.
In July, 2008, an UNRWA report on the situation in Gaza stated that "the number of households in Gaza below the consumption poverty line continued to grow, reaching 51.8 percent in 2007 (from 50.7 percent in 2006)".[104] In the same year, a Palestinian Bureau of Statistics study concluded that 80% of families in Gaza were living below the poverty line.[105] The CIA World Fact book places this figure at an estimated 70% for 2009.[106]
A World Health Organisation assessment conducted in 2009 claimed that the level of anemia in babies (9–12 months) was as high as 65%, while a Socio-economic and Food Security Survey Report stated that 61% of Gazans are food insecure and reliant on humanitarian aid. Of those that are food insecure, 65% are children under 18 years. Lastly, a European Network of Implementing Development Agencies (EUNIDA) report notes that, because of the security buffer zone imposed around Gaza as part of the blockade, as of June 2009, 46% of agricultural land was either inaccessible or out of production.[107]
On the 14th of June, 2010, the International Committee of the Red Cross noted that the increasing scarcity of items has led to rises in cost of goods while quality has fallen.[108] There is also "an acute electricity crisis", where electricity supplies are "interrupted for seven hours a day on average". As a consequence, they note that public services, particularly health services, have suffered, posing "a serious risk to the treatment of patients". In addition, medical equipment is difficult to repair, and medical staff cannot leave to gain more training. Lastly, the ICRC note that sanitation is suffering, because construction projects lack the equipment needed, or the equipment is of poor quality. Only 60% of the population is connected to a sewerage collection system, with the rest polluting the Gaza aquifer. As a result, water is largely "unfit for consumption".[109]
A 25 May 2010 United Nations Development Programme report stated that, as a result of the blockade, most of Gaza's manufacturing industry has closed, and unemployment stood at an estimated 40%, a decrease on previous years. The blockade has also prevented much needed construction, noting that almost "none of the 3,425 homes destroyed during Cast Lead have been reconstructed, displacing around 20,000 people". Less than 20% "of the value of the damages to educational facilities has been repaired", only "half of the damage to the power network has been repaired", "no repair has been made to the transport infrastructure", "a quarter of damaged farmland has been rehabilitated and only 40% of private businesses have been repaired".[110]
















Israel is genocidal, terrorist, and the blockade IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT LEGAL!
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I'm positive you've lost this argument already , numerous times in fact.
Yet you can't dispute his numbers.

Hmmm, interesting how you think you've won that argument. Are you prone to wistful thoughts of grandeur often?


And anyways, i'm not anti-jewish...
Yes you are.

then after that erroneous accusation of racism you've bestowed upon me,
Judaism isn't a race.

... my mind is still boggled..
No surprise there.

no i'm not part of Israel's problem, i just make my opinions known over a message board... i don't shoot rockets into israel . in reality i don't care to do anything, i'll just watch people kill themselves off and hope for an eventual extinction.
Who is it you wish to see go extinct?

You haven't won one yet
But I bet you think you have.

There you go, using wikiality again.

Did you miss the "60 years" part? Or just grasping at straws?

If we support the way Israel was created then we shouldn't be able to condemn how Saddam went into Kuwait. Rule of the biggest gun.
What a load of shyte. How in Gods name can you compare mandate to invasion by force?

What a tard you are, lol.
You're projecting again.

No country can legally interfere with the free flow of humanitarian aid.
This is true, which is why Israel has no control over UN and recognized Aid Groups, shipments. It's only control, is over private shipping.

A fact you seem incapable of graspping.

Since Israel restricts the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza to a trickle, humanitarian activists have every moral right to attempt to circumvent it.
Since Israel doesn't restrict the shipments from legitimate and recognized Aid Groups, there is no need to attempt to break the law.

If North Korea or Iran tried to starve and bomb people into suibmission, I doubt the main stream media would be as sympathetic and our leaders as silent.
This is true. Which is why the mainstream media isn't bleating the same BS lies you are.

Since this aid ship was in international waters when it was attacked, Israel`s actions were an act of piracy or an act of war against Turkey.
This has been proven erroneous several times, in several threads. The fact that you keep saying it, only confirms that you are what I say you are.


roflmfao....what a hypocrite.
Got anything more then that tripe to add Gh?

No country can legally block humanitarian aid.
Agreed, which is why Israel does not block recognized, legitimate Aid Groups.

Deliberating causing 1.5 m million people to suffer years of disease and malnutrition is a crime against humanity.
Yes, the new malls are filled with nothing but dust and dust bunnies.

Are dust bunnies as high in protein, as you are in BS?

Effects of land blockade on Gaza
Again with the wikiality? An article easily disproven with countless pics of street vendors and malls teaming with food stuffs.

Israel is genocidal, terrorist,
Colpy already proved that that statement is so beyond intelligent, that only a moron would utter it again.

and the blockade IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT LEGAL!
Then why was the case turned away by the International Courts, and why hasn't the UN forcefully removed it?

Oh ya, there's no legal standing.

Only morons believe the crap they utter incessantly, until it becomes fact in their small minds.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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What a load of shyte. How in Gods name can you compare mandate to invasion by force?
33 Nations stole Palestine from the people who lived there, theft by a pen or the sword is still theft, no matter how the 33 countries try to white wash it.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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33 Nations stole Palestine from the people who lived there, theft by a pen or the sword is still theft, no matter how the 33 countries try to white wash it.
That's not what you said.

But I can see how you would want to negate that fact. It was ridiculous. As are the whole of all your posts.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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No country can legally block humanitarian aid. Deliberating causing 1.5 m million people to suffer years of disease and malnutrition is a crime against humanity.

If this is your opinion then you are right, but there is no legal case supporting you. It is people/civilizations who start problems, allow problems to persist, put enough pressure on them and they might stop their goverment or whomever from doing what is making someone angry.
 

CUBert

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Aug 15, 2010
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Time to visit Palestine rather then an armchair expert. Time to really get the facts rather then sit behind your monitor defending Israel while Palestinians are being starved and slaughtered.
 

YukonJack

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Dec 26, 2008
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Time to visit Palestine rather then an armchair expert. Time to really get the facts rather then sit behind your monitor defending Israel while Palestinians are being starved and slaughtered.

Do you mean those duly and democratically elected Palestinian Arab members of the Knesset?
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Time to visit Palestine rather then an armchair expert.
Bet I've been closer then you.

Time to really get the facts rather then sit behind your monitor defending Israel while Palestinians are being starved and slaughtered.
He says as an armchair expert who relies heavily on wikiality for all his info, continuously confuses racism for bigotry, can't do his own research, and fails to concede when proven wrong (Which has been often)...

 

Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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Does a Mormon state in North America have the right to exist? What about a Sikh state in Northern India?

If the Mormon's developed separatist ambitions, would you then advocate blowing up Mormon children, on the grounds of freedom fighting, and resisting Mormon imperialism? Why aren't we blowing up Quebec separatists and calling ourselves freedom fighters resisting Francophone imperialism? Then when the Quebecers defend themselves we can accuse them of genocide.

Hence the problem in defining Israel's right to exist on the basis of religious prosecution, as that otherwise opens the door for religious nominations around the world to declare their independence,

Ummm, how does that not happen all the time already? Kosovo? Northern Nigeria? Ivory Coast? East Timor? Southern Sudan?

and of course, give them a casus beli to genocide millions (as Israel had done through the explusion of Palestinian Muslims).

lol It's been fascinating to see this history evolve just in the 6 years or so that I've been involved in this forum. 500-600k Arabs left Israel in 1948, (saying 10% of those by force would be generous) has now become the genocide of millions. Stay tuned. :)

No country can legally block humanitarian aid. Deliberating causing 1.5 m million people to suffer years of disease and malnutrition is a crime against humanity.

lol an open air prison of disease and malnutrition where life expectancy exceeds that of the rest of the middle east, and has an obesity problem.

Give it up, these are lies plain and simple, demonstrated as lies repeatedly. Even most leftists have dropped this argument, because it's so obviously false and so easily proven so.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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lol It's been fascinating to see this history evolve just in the 6 years or so that I've been involved in this forum. 500-600k Arabs left Israel in 1948, (saying 10% of those by force would be generous) has now become the genocide of millions. Stay tuned. :)



lol an open air prison of disease and malnutrition where life expectancy exceeds that of the rest of the middle east, and has an obesity problem.

Give it up, these are lies plain and simple, demonstrated as lies repeatedly. Even most leftists have dropped this argument, because it's so obviously false and so easily proven so.
Stop confusing the issue with facts, Just the Facts. You're so appropriately nic'd.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Now there's a post that epitomizes the deservance of a thumbs up! :)
Well your post was factual. As you said, it has been proven time and time again that not only is their a healthy Arab populace in Israel, a very small percentage of Arabs forced from Israel, in 48, and Palestine's supposed plight is a sham.

It's hard to fathom how the ethically challenged, morally bankrupt, neo nazi supporters can keep saying it with a straight face.

Facts and the left, just don't get along.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Visit Palestine or shut the **** up.


Excellent retort cubby. I see you haven't been honing those debating skills much.

It's a sham.

Besides that, I still bet I've been closer then you.

It's a sham, the evidence has been posted, time and time again. From obesity reports, life expectancies, to photo proof from Palestinian sites themselves, of street vendors and malls teaming with fresh fruits and vegetables, to baked goods and candies.

There's no denying it anymore, only a moron would attempt to perpetuate the sham.

Have I said it was a sham yet?
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Yup. And I read recently that Israel is on the verge of easing export restrictions, so now Gaza will actually be EXPORTING food.
Exporting you say?

Impossible!!!

They're being starved to death by the new nazi regime in Tel Aviv. Those genocidal Joos.

Ummm, did I mention you keep confusing the issue with facts?

Palestinian entrepreneurs ready as Israel eases export control - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

Exports, mostly of agricultural produce
WHAT!!!???

They're starving to death under the genocidal nazi Joos, and they're exporting the very foods they need to stave off this genocide!!!???

Say it isn't so!!!

Where is Hamas in all this!!!???
 

CUBert

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Excellent retort cubby. I see you haven't been honing those debating skills much.

It's a sham.

Besides that, I still bet I've been closer then you.

It's a sham, the evidence has been posted, time and time again. From obesity reports, life expectancies, to photo proof from Palestinian sites themselves, of street vendors and malls teaming with fresh fruits and vegetables, to baked goods and candies.

There's no denying it anymore, only a moron would attempt to perpetuate the sham.

Have I said it was a sham yet?

Debate your clearly ignorant comments? You're an armchair expert, you think you know what's going on, well visit Palestine and truly get the facts.. Who's opinion do you think would be most likely to change if we visited Palestine?

To say Palestinian's are perpetuating and shame and reality aren't suffering at all is a disgustingly gross comment akin to denying the holocaust.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Debate your clearly informed comments?
FIFY and you're incapable of doing so.

You're an armchair expert, you think you know what's going on, well visit Palestine and truly get the facts..
Why? I read a more balanced cross section of information outlets then you. That's obvious. Hence I'm the one that is capable of doing my own research, not using wikiality, not using propaganda sites, and have punched holes so large, in all your posts, that you can drive an aid convoy through them.
Who's opinion do you think would be most likely to change if we visited Palestine?
Neither. I would be proven right and you're simply not capable of accepting you're wrong.

I'm well aware that there's poverty in almost every country. Blaming the poverty in Palestine on Israel, while Palestine exports crops, is asinine at best.

To say Palestinian's are perpetuating and shame and reality aren't suffering at all is a disgustingly gross comment akin to denying the holocaust.


Ya, which is why they're exporting food now...

Great equation by the way. No limits on the stupidity you can stuff in a post eh?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Time to visit Palestine rather then an armchair expert. Time to really get the facts rather then sit behind your monitor defending Israel while Palestinians are being starved and slaughtered.
So when are you going? Big world out there to visit.