Israel give Islam a run for its' money

[PoliticalNick]

Ten women arrested at Jerusalem's Western Wall over religious garb that Orthodox tradition sees as solely for men.

Israel detains women over prayer shawls - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Israeli police have detained 10 women at one of Judaism's holiest sites for wearing prayer shawls, which Orthodox tradition sees as solely for men, authorities confirm.

Among those detained on Monday at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City was Susan Silverman, a reform rabbi who is a sister of the famous US comedian Sarah Silverman, and her teenage daughter, police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld has said.

Two other US citizens and Israeli members of "Women of the Wall", a group that campaigns for gender equality in religious practice, were also detained.

The group routinely convenes for monthly prayer sessions at the Western Wall, revered by Jews as a perimeter wall of the Biblical Temple in Jerusalem.

Some of its members have been detained by police in the past for wearing prayer shawls at the site and released without charge.

The Western Wall is administered under strict Orthodox ritual law, which bars women from wearing the religious garb or publicly reading from the holy scriptures.

'High Court' ruling

Rosenfeld said the women had acted "against regulations set by the High Court", citing a decision of a decade ago upholding Orthodox rules at the site to avoid tension between worshippers.

The incident highlighted the divisions between the more liberal branches of Judaism and politically powerful Orthodox groups that traditionally limit the role of women in prayer.

Susan Silverman, who immigrated to Israel from Boston, said police escorted the group to a station after they refused to remove prayer shawls.

She said in a telephone interview from the police station where the group was held that they had been among more
than 100 women attending the hour-long prayer session.

"They [police] said 'take off your prayer shawls', and we said 'no'," Silverman said. Once the prayers were over they were escorted away, Silverman said.

Silverman also said the Orthodox tradition barring women from wearing prayer shawls amounted to "spitting on Sinai", naming the site where the Bible says God handed the ancient Israelite leader Moses the 10 Commandments.

"All Jews are in a covenant with God," regardless of their gender, she said.

It would appear that Orthodox Judaism has some things in common with radical Islam.

 

[DaSleeper]

And dress codes in a place of worship compares with dress codes in public???8O

 

[PoliticalNick]

And dress codes in a place of worship compares with dress codes in public???8O

It is just as discriminatory against women as a Burka. No two ways about it. There are a lot of ways that Orthodox Judaism is still in the stone-age just like radical Islam.

 

[DaSleeper]

It is just as discriminatory against women as a Burka. No two ways about it. There are a lot of ways that Orthodox Judaism is still in the stone-age just like radical Islam.

I can see why people would think you have comprehension issues.....:roll:
And I get fined if I wear my hat at the Royal Canadian Legion.... OMG!!!!!!

But I don't get stonned to death!

 

[taxslave]

I can see why people would think you have comprehension issues.....:roll:
And I get fined if I wear my hat at the Royal Canadian Legion.... OMG!!!!!!

But I don't get stonned to death!

Not to mention that if the place is full you will have one hell of a beer bill.
But I think that Nick's point is that a fundie is a fundie no matter what the religion. All are intolerant.

 

[petros]

Ten women arrested at Jerusalem's Western Wall over religious garb that Orthodox tradition sees as solely for men.

Israel detains women over prayer shawls - Middle East - Al Jazeera English





It would appear that Orthodox Judaism has some things in common with radical Islam.

Some things? Damn near identical.

I can see why people would think you have comprehension issues.....:roll:
And I get fined if I wear my hat at the Royal Canadian Legion.... OMG!!!!!!

But I don't get stonned to death!

Heebs just stone and hassle little girls on their way to school but no fvcking big deal right?

Google

Haredim stone, pour bleach on woman: Haredi Ultra-Orthodox assault Jewish woman in Beit Shemesh - YouTube

 

[Sal]

Are there any religions where women are totally equal in every respect?

 

[L Gilbert]

Are there any religions where women are totally equal in every respect?

Sikhism, Taoism (there's debate whether it can be termed as a religion, though), Buddhism, etc.; there are a few whose foundations are partially based upon the equality of women. Any religion can be contorted, though if the people in it don't follow the precepts.

 

[damngrumpy]

You are talking about a societal crossroad here. Dress codes from ancient religious beliefs
mingle with good manners and respect intersecting with the presence of time.
Yes Islam, Judaism and a host of other religions including Christianity do not treat women
with equality. There are many customs and dress codes still in effect in all societies.
Today there are millions of people who don't give a crap about the beliefs, customs or dress
codes of others and in fact manners themselves have gone to hell in a hand basket.
People point to one faith or another and claim they are the ones to blame. Christians have
come a way down the road but they don't treat women with equality even today.
In the twelfth century women were considered to be a man born incomplete and therefore
not allowed the same rights. Now of course women are equal, sort of, some religions more
than others. Catholics don't allow women priests and they are exempt from the labour code.
Laws of the land don't apply here when it comes to religion and that in itself is not equal.
All these customs aside, respect for others should never go out of fashion but if these faiths
want followers in a modern society they have to lighten up a bit. You cannot explain your
faith to people you cannot reach because you are dogmatic. Of course religion is dogmatic
in nature and that is why more and more people are passing it by in all faiths.
If it comes right down to it, if people seek out God then I don't think he cares what they are
wearing.

 

[earth_as_one]

Most First Nations are matriarchal. Your clan (last name) comes from your mother. Historically community property belonged to the clan (controlled by women) and guys would loose rights to the long house if they were deadbeats. The council of women elders elect the chiefs, but if they didn't do what the women wanted, they'd hold another election. ( As it was explained to me by the Mohawks in Akwasasne). Their system made a lot of sense.

 

[L Gilbert]

Most First Nations are matriarchal. Your clan (last name) comes from your mother. Historically community property belonged to the clan (controlled by women) and guys would loose rights to the long house if they were deadbeats. The council of women elders elect the chiefs, but if they didn't do what the women wanted, they'd hold another election. ( As it was explained to me by the Mohawks in Akwasasne). Their system made a lot of sense.

What does that have to do with their religions? Seems to me that natives could apply religious issues to everything on a personal basis, but leave it out of societal issues.

 

[earth_as_one]

Women are not subservient to men even when it comes to their religious leaders.

 

[PoliticalNick]

And dress codes in a place of worship compares with dress codes in public???8O

But it is a public place. It a wall along a street in public. It is not in a building, not in a church. This is a case of discrimination against women by a fundamentalist religious sect. Nothing more, nothing less. You can make excuses all you want because you don't like Judaism being likened to Islam but there is no denying the facts.

 

[petros]

But it is a public place. It a wall along a street in public. It is not in a building, not in a church. This is a case of discrimination against women by a fundamentalist religious sect. Nothing more, nothing less. You can make excuses all you want because you don't like Judaism being likened to Islam but there is no denying the facts.

He's blinded by imposed guilt just like many others. He bitches an whines about people who are PC (politically correct) yet, wears his PC guilt on his sleeve for all to see.

 

[earth_as_one]

Kosher and Halal are basically the same too.

But I wouldn't judge all Jews by the actions of the Orthodox Jewish extremists. The laws are there to accommodate religious parties which often hold the balance of power in the Knesset. Many mainstream and secular Jews think the Orthodox Jews are extremists too. (For example the Jewish women busted for wearing prayer shawls)

 

[L Gilbert]

Women are not subservient to men even when it comes to their religious leaders.

Sometimes that is "in spite of their religious leaders". I agree.

Anyway, nifty thing about native societies is that religious issues were as they should be, a personal thing, not a societal thing. It was simply an aspect of society like hunting/fishing/gathering, teaching, raising kids, etc.

 

[Cliffy]

Sometimes that is "in spite of their religious leaders". I agree.

Anyway, nifty thing about native societies is that religious issues were as they should be, a personal thing, not a societal thing. It was simply an aspect of society like hunting/fishing/gathering, teaching, raising kids, etc.

Their spirituality was all inclusive of everything they did. They did not compartmentalize various aspects of their lives the way western society does.

 

[petros]

Their spirituality was all inclusive of everything they did.

Everything? Really?

 

[L Gilbert]

Their spirituality was all inclusive of everything they did.

Yes, but it was still a personal issue not a governing issue.

They did not compartmentalize various aspects of their lives the way western society does.

True but at least in the Anishinaabe culture, different clans had different societal duties.

 

[Cliffy]

Yes, but it was still a personal issue not a governing issue. True but at least in the Anishinaabe culture, different clans had different societal duties.

Correct and most, if not all, had clans. The clan mothers held most of the decision making power.