Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

[Just the Facts]

OK I started watching but I don't feel like watching a speech by Obama. What was the content of the video she smuggled out, and how does it contradict the Israeli version of what happened?

Would calling you a liar motivate you to supply the list?
They have only ever released a 'partial list' the longer one has about 3,000 more items on it, like steel and cement and wheel-chair batteries..

lol no it would only make you wrong. Steel and cement is listed on the link I gave you. I also heard that the story about the wheelchair batteries was BS, the batteries were removed to preserve them. And in fact, it was Hamas that roadblocked the delivery of the goods into gaza. Also, if you read on, the liquid in batteries can be used to manufacture explosives. The batteries that were shipped in the flotilla were gel batteries that are reugularly allowed into Gaza. lol whoops Hamas! I guess they ordered the liquid ones and wren't expecting the gel batteries.

The spokesman said that first of all, Hamas can’t know what Israel is doing because they are not allowing the aid into the Strip. Secondly, one needs to take out the batteries from the wheel chairs because if they are stored for a long time in the heat with the batteries, the batteries get ruined. He then took the journalists to the inside storage space, which is kept cool. There all the batteries were neatly placed in boxes all lined up. He said that the minute they will get a green light from Gaza, Israel can transfer everything into the Strip. Then the batteries will be transferred together with the chairs.
Hamas, Israel and the Flotilla Aid Ray Cook


And you wanted to call me a liar. tsk tsk.

 

[Colpy]

irrelevant that Amnesty International isn't a adjudicator of International Law, they understand International law better than any of us here. Any of us questioning their knowledge is sheer arrogance.
you want to defend a brutal government who cares nothing for human rights over an organization whose sole purpose is to protect human rights. are you a misanthrope like me?



you easily are fed israeli propaganda and do not hesitate at all to believe any of it. it's not even logical, a couple jihadi's with knives want to take on the armed israeli military? :lol:
i believe what happened was a reaction to defend themselves after an unprovoked act of Israeli aggression, it simply makes more sense.



do you have any links of stories where Canada has boarded ships in international waters? I want to read about some of this.



most israeli propaganda.

YouTube - Israeli Attack on Gaza Aid Flotilla - Paintball Guns or Uzis?



i'm not sure where you get this is a legal blockade, from what i've been reading it sounds anything but.
The U.N which has been determining the legality of blockades since 1945 actually considers it illegal, as well as the international committee of the red cross.
david cameroon, prime minister of great britain referred to it as a prison camp. even hilary clinton says it's unacceptable.

a quote
Israel allows only limited humanitarian supplies from aid organizations into the Strip.[4] In 2009 the amount of goods Israel allowed into Gaza was one quarter of the pre-blockade flow.

this seems not only illegal but unquestionably immoral.





New Video Smuggled Out from Mavi Marmara of Israel?s Deadly Assault on Gaza Aid Flotilla : Political Theatrics

here's a women who was on the ship (she really seems like a violent jihadist!! :lol::lol who explains what happened on the ship.
other questions come to my mind such as, why if israel was innocent in all of this , why did they feel to the need to confiscate images and videos? as well as afterwards reject an international investigation ??

I can read....if you consider the fact that I read and analyze things for myself as arrogant....well, what can I say?

Islamists attack Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies........I can not explain the actions of lunatics seeking martyrdom.

Canada boarding one of hundreds of ships she has boarded in the last 20 years........please note our troops are NOT carrying paintball guns:

Canadian Forces Navy Boarding Party Photos

BTW I have spent a lifetime interested in weapons....and IMHO that is NOT a suppressed Uzi, in fact (although it is extremely unclear) I believe you can see the paintball magazine on the top of the weapon.... BTW for numerous reasons, the Israeli military does not use the Uzi anymore......it is extremely outdated, being only a second generation SMG. certainly not used by elite commandos, and it does not even appear on a list of current IDF small arms....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_equipment_of_Israel#Small_Arms

The UN is, on the whole, unhappy that all the Jews weren't fed into ovens 70 years ago.....yet I have NEVER heard anywhere that the UN considered this blockade illegal....link?

And the smuggled vids show nothing of the actual assault, they do show the "humanitarians" (otherwise known as useful idiots) helping wounded Israelis and Jihadists, as I mentioned above. How do you think the Israelis got wounded if they landed with SMGs blazing???

Answer me that!

 

[MHz]

Secondly, one needs to take out the batteries from the wheel chairs because if they are stored for a long time in the heat with the batteries, the batteries get ruined.

And you wanted to call me a liar. tsk tsk.

You are, Israel has never released a full list of the banned items.

Cement is not a weapon and if the transfer was to be 'quick' there would be no need to put the batteries in storage. Parts to repair the civilian infrastructure are not weapons either but what has been repaired not been repaired since Operation Cast Lead? Pretty much everything that got 'broken' is still broken.

The aid was refused because it was not inn the same condition as when sent. Perhaps there are some photo's around that show how the goods were packed prior to Israel getting their hands on it.

 

[eanassir]

Allahu Akbar on such people as want to justify any Israeli action whether good or evil in anyway.

 

[CUBert]

I can read....if you consider the fact that I read and analyze things for myself as arrogant....well, what can I say?

Islamists attack Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies........I can not explain the actions of lunatics seeking martyrdom.

i don't know. i guess before you could understand that, you'd also have to understand what it's like living in unlivable conditions, witnessing brutal atrocities against your friends and families. also being hungry all the time because of the immoral blockade which is preventing a sufficient amount of food into your region.. until then you wouldn't understand the intense anger but also the sheer hopeless feeling which leads to one not only killing him or herself but also taking with you some of the people who've inflicted this harm.

Canada boarding one of hundreds of ships she has boarded in the last 20 years........please note our troops are NOT carrying paintball guns:

Canadian Forces Navy Boarding Party Photos

Canada has had permission for a long time to use Oman's ports.
Israel had no authority to board the ship in international waters.

BTW I have spent a lifetime interested in weapons....and IMHO that is NOT a suppressed Uzi, in fact (although it is extremely unclear) I believe you can see the paintball magazine on the top of the weapon.... BTW for numerous reasons, the Israeli military does not use the Uzi anymore......it is extremely outdated, being only a second generation SMG. certainly not used by elite commandos, and it does not even appear on a list of current IDF small arms....

Military equipment of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So I need to take your unclear opinion and a list made on wikipedia with something more than a grain of salt ?

The UN is, on the whole, unhappy that all the Jews weren't fed into ovens 70 years ago.....yet I have NEVER heard anywhere that the UN considered this blockade illegal....link?

2007?present blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Nations have called the blockade illegal according to the Geneva Conventions on a number of occasions, a call also echoed by the International Committee of the Red Cross. Both organizations repeatedly urge Israel to lift the blockade.

And the smuggled vids show nothing of the actual assault, they do show the "humanitarians" (otherwise known as useful idiots) helping wounded Israelis and Jihadists, as I mentioned above. How do you think the Israelis got wounded if they landed with SMGs blazing???

Answer me that!

this was an interview with someone who was actually on the boat. you're going to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with what you think happened?
are you crying about a few wounded soldiers when most of the violence was actually done by the israeli's? no israeli's died. but there were humanitarians that died.
if they're going to martyr themselves, you'd think maybe they'd set off a bomb once the israeli's landed would be a little more effective than a couple knives vs an armed military? come on ... painball guns, please.


and you never did answer my questions.

 

[Colpy]

i don't know. i guess before you could understand that, you'd also have to understand what it's like living in unlivable conditions, witnessing brutal atrocities against your friends and families. also being hungry all the time because of the immoral blockade which is preventing a sufficient amount of food into your region.. until then you wouldn't understand the intense anger but also the sheer hopeless feeling which leads to one not only killing him or herself but also taking with you some of the people who've inflicted this harm.



Canada has had permission for a long time to use Oman's ports.
Israel had no authority to board the ship in international waters.



So I need to take your unclear opinion and a list made on wikipedia with something more than a grain of salt ?



2007?present blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Nations have called the blockade illegal according to the Geneva Conventions on a number of occasions, a call also echoed by the International Committee of the Red Cross. Both organizations repeatedly urge Israel to lift the blockade.




this was an interview with someone who was actually on the boat. you're going to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with what you think happened?
are you crying about a few wounded soldiers when most of the violence was actually done by the israeli's? no israeli's died. but there were humanitarians that died.
if they're going to martyr themselves, you'd think maybe they'd set off a bomb once the israeli's landed would be a little more effective than a couple knives vs an armed military? come on ... painball guns, please.


and you never did answer my questions.

WOW!

First of all, the population of Gaza is NOT suffering starvation from Israel's attempts to keep Hamas from weapons....look below to the Gaza Mall, and elsewhere for pics of markets overflowing with food........you might want to pin some of the blame on Hamas, who refuse to recognize Israel and continue to fire rockets into the country on a daily basis....they have destroyed the Gaza economy and are obviously failing to ensure proper food distribution.......... suicide bombings are the result of a campaign of hatred directed towards Jews from the earliest age.....

Ahhh...look again, the ships are being boarded on the high seas....what does Oman have to do with it?

The UZI site lists the IDF as finally completely de-listing the Uzi for military use in 2003. It is greatly obsolete, certainly not suitable for use at sea (it fires from an open bolt)......the guy in the film does NOT have an UZI......full stop. I still think it is a paintball gun.

I will grant you your point on the UN....not that I give a rat's ass what that bunch think, or about Internationa Law, for that matter.....but you are right, the UN has called it illegal. So what.

I discount it because it shows no evidence to refute the Israeli version of events.......that simple.

No Jihadists died, the last guy on board had seen that Jihadists were murdering his brothers in arms, so he dropped his paintball gun, drew his 9mm, and started sending Jihadists seeking martyrdom into the arms of Allah....he is currently up for a high military award for valour....and well-deserved.

Why was Israel able to stop 6 ships peacefully?????? No trouble.

And please get it straight on the Canadian Navy....they are on the high seas.....

 

[CUBert]

WOW!

First of all, the population of Gaza is NOT suffering starvation from Israel's attempts to keep Hamas from weapons....look below to the Gaza Mall, and elsewhere for pics of markets overflowing with food........you might want to pin some of the blame on Hamas, who refuse to recognize Israel and continue to fire rockets into the country on a daily basis....they have destroyed the Gaza economy and are obviously failing to ensure proper food distribution.......... suicide bombings are the result of a campaign of hatred directed towards Jews from the earliest age.....

Ahhh...look again, the ships are being boarded on the high seas....what does Oman have to do with it?

The UZI site lists the IDF as finally completely de-listing the Uzi for military use in 2003. It is greatly obsolete, certainly not suitable for use at sea (it fires from an open bolt)......the guy in the film does NOT have an UZI......full stop. I still think it is a paintball gun.

I will grant you your point on the UN....not that I give a rat's ass what that bunch think, or about Internationa Law, for that matter.....but you are right, the UN has called it illegal. So what.

I discount it because it shows no evidence to refute the Israeli version of events.......that simple.

No Jihadists died, the last guy on board had seen that Jihadists were murdering his brothers in arms, so he dropped his paintball gun, drew his 9mm, and started sending Jihadists seeking martyrdom into the arms of Allah....he is currently up for a high military award for valour....and well-deserved.

Why was Israel able to stop 6 ships peacefully?????? No trouble.

And please get it straight on the Canadian Navy....they are on the high seas.....

Of course they're starving ! There is a ****ing blockade only allowing minimal supplies into a region of 400,000 ! Are you that naive really? The mall is just Gaza's attempt to modernize. The reality though, is that only very few people can actually afford anything in it.
How do you reject U.N's opinion , as I've said they've been determining legality of blockades since '45, if they say it's illegal it probably is!

I don't know what that crap was in the link you posted about the Canadian navy but if they attempted to board ships in international waters that would be illegal.

You've seen normal people that were on the boat, for instance in that interview, that women was completely sane and not any sort of fundamentalist. There were also reports of children on the boat.
This WAS NOT a boat attempting to fight with the Israeli military and martyr themselves ! Israel provoked it, the men on the boat acted in self-defense.
And unless you can convincingly answer these questions I posed earlier

other questions come to my mind such as, why if israel was innocent in all of this , why did they feel to the need to confiscate images and videos? as well as afterwards reject an international investigation ??

I feel no reason to change my opinion.

 

[Goober]

Of course they're starving ! There is a ****ing blockade only allowing minimal supplies into a region of 400,000 ! Are you that naive really? The mall is just Gaza's attempt to modernize. The reality though, is that only very few people can actually afford anything in it.
How do you reject U.N's opinion , as I've said they've been determining legality of blockades since '45, if they say it's illegal it probably is!

I don't know what that crap was in the link you posted about the Canadian navy but if they attempted to board ships in international waters that would be illegal.

You've seen normal people that were on the boat, for instance in that interview, that women was completely sane and not any sort of fundamentalist. There were also reports of children on the boat.
This WAS NOT a boat attempting to fight with the Israeli military and martyr themselves ! Israel provoked it, the men on the boat acted in self-defense.
And unless you can convincingly answer these questions I posed earlier



I feel no reason to change my opinion.

Provoked with Paint Guns - then they had the literal crap kicked out of them along with shooting - from the people on the boat-

I do not now why the Israeli's ever wanted to practice self preservation - They should have stood up and become Martyrs - Oh Oh - wrong religion.

 

[Just the Facts]

You are, Israel has never released a full list of the banned items.

Cement is not a weapon and if the transfer was to be 'quick' there would be no need to put the batteries in storage. Parts to repair the civilian infrastructure are not weapons either but what has been repaired not been repaired since Operation Cast Lead? Pretty much everything that got 'broken' is still broken.

The aid was refused because it was not inn the same condition as when sent. Perhaps there are some photo's around that show how the goods were packed prior to Israel getting their hands on it.

lol broken record much? It's clear why cement is restricted, it's a dual use item. Israel allow cement under supervision to make sure it's not being used to build more bunkers and underground tunnels....it's allowed for thing like, well, malls and shopping centers. I guess you also missed the part about sanitation pipes being used to build rockets. You also contradict yourself about the batteries, you admit Hamas was responsible for holding up the shipment because it wasn't "in the same condition (lol)" yet you vilify Israel for not shipping quickly.

Knowing nothing about a "secret" list hardly makes me a liar. But thanks for the laugh, I needed a good one.

 

[MHz]

NP, thanks for the link though, it was quite interesting . I like the way the 'boat crew' are classified as terrorists for having bats and such and going against unarmed people. Seems that is the very same tactic that Israel used in the documentary Occupation 101. Big bats, big men, dark of night. BTW the ones escorting the beaten IDF Commandos were the same ones that subdued them so that is who saved them from being killed in the spot

YouTube - Former US Marine Kenneth O' Keefe Rebuts Israeli Lies Over Flotilla Massacre (Part 1of 3)
YouTube - Former US Marine Kenneth O' Keefe Rebuts Israeli Lies Over Flotilla Massacre (Part 2 of 3)
YouTube - Former US Marine Kenneth O' Keefe Rebuts Israeli Lies Over Flotilla Massacre (Part 3 of 3)


BTW the open market pic that keeps being shown will not feed 1.5 Million people and the small stretch of beach they are 'allowed' is about 1% of the shoreline and they wouldn't have needed a new mall if the old one hadn't been blown up. Show some real works, like a modern hospital and modern schools with all the up-to date hardware. Show me the export check for the excess power they have. Show me the offers from Iran/China/Russia to develop their offshore gas field. (Stupid Brits always giving away the most valuable land lol)

 

[CUBert]

Nice videos MHZ

 

[MHz]

Nice videos MHZ

A few as calm and direct as him would end a lot of conversations. He also comes as an 'action figure'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEGX7qEyHmc&NR=1

 

[CUBert]

btw , my mistake when i said 400,000 residents in gaza, of course it's 1.5 million. typo that won't let me edit.

 

[Just the Facts]

they wouldn't have needed a new mall if the old one hadn't been blown up.

Of course, if they hadn't kept firing rockets at Israel day in day out, year in year out, their mall never would have been blown up. In fact, there wouldn't even be a blockade. Funny thing, myself and many others rightch 'eer at CC were warning for years that something like Cast Lead would happen if the Palestinians didn't stop poking the lion. If we could see it coming, surely Hamas could see it coming. It's almost as if....as if....they WANTED war with Israel. 8O

Show some real works, like a modern hospital and modern schools with all the up-to date hardware. Show me the export check for the excess power they have. Show me the offers from Iran/China/Russia to develop their offshore gas field. (Stupid Brits always giving away the most valuable land lol)

Yeah!! Hey Hamas!! Let's see your urban renewal plans! lol

I guess you also missed the part about Israel urging Hamas to do just that.

 

[MHz]

Of course, if they hadn't kept firing rockets at Israel day in day out, year in year out, their mall never would have been blown up. In fact, there wouldn't even be a blockade. Funny thing, myself and many others rightch 'eer at CC were warning for years that something like Cast Lead would happen if the Palestinians didn't stop poking the lion. If we could see it coming, surely Hamas could see it coming. It's almost as if....as if....they WANTED war with Israel. 8O

lol broken record much?

 

[CDNBear]

The usual suspects are still in denial...



How can a blockade be killing off 1.5 million people, if the blockade allows for the building of a mall, and the stocking of a mall, and several high end restaurants?

 

[CUBert]

How about we set the record straight on the Gaza mall too; excellent short article on the topic


July 25, 2010
1 month ago

The Gaza "shopping mall": reality and hasbara


When he came to Washington a few months ago, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was touting the multiplex cinemas and shopping malls that have supposedly sprouted up in the West Bank as evidence of the "economic renaissance" going on there. There is no such economic renaissance -- it is a mirage promoted by Israel and its collaborators -- under the rubric of "economic peace." In fact, in large parts of the West Bank, people are poorer even than in Gaza, which is saying something given the wretched poverty and unemployment in Gaza.
Now, Israel's supporters have leapt on a minor story -- the opening of a shopping "mall" in Gaza -- to perform a similar hasbara trick: 'there is no poverty in Gaza, no siege, no hunger, no malnutrition. Just look at them, they are living better than we do!' I have seen such messages on many right-wing and pro-Israel sites.
Israel's Ynet reported:

While Hamas continues to demand a full lifting of the blockade, the Gaza market seems to be doing alright. Gaza Mall, the first ever shopping center in the Strip was opened last Saturday with masses storming the new attraction.
The two-floor compound, each stretching over roughly 9,700 sq. ft, offers international brands as well as much-needed air conditioning. Tens of thousands of shoppers from Rafah to Beit Hanoun have already visited the site within a matter of days, making the center Gaza's new craze.
​

First, note that the reported size is about 20,000 square feet (1,850 square meters). To put this in perspective, the average size of a Wal-Mart store in the US is five times larger than the entire Gaza "mall": 108,000 square feet (with the largest Wal-Mart stores going up to 185,000 square feet!).
Now I have received this eyewitness account from a source in Gaza:

"I found out about the Gaza mall. Yes it exists. The goods in there are very expensive and it's not a real mall, barely bigger than a little supermarket. It has 4 sections, one sells vegetables grown in Gaza, the 2nd section sells clothes and shoes, a 3rd section is like a huge supermarket with things brought to Gaza through the tunnels, and the last sells electric materials, TVs, stereos... The owners are very rich people in the Gaza Strip. Most of the stuff being sold are either made in Gaza, or brought via tunnels. And there are no thousands visitors, when I went there, I saw about 15-20 people only."
​

Gaza is a territory with 1.5 million people. They ought to have a normal life. That this small store is being celebrated as a major achievement shows just how hard the Israeli siege is biting. It also shows -- as I reported in a previous blog post -- that the siege is producing a small wealthy economic elite, while the vast majority suffers.

The Gaza "shopping mall": reality and hasbara - Ali Abunimah

 

[eanassir]

The Israelits are the true terrorists

What Zionists do to Gaza and its forbearing people is not good; such action against Gaza and Palestinian people is far more than any terrorism; the Israeli acts are the terrorism in fact.

God advised them in the Quran to be good concerning the Palestinians, the Arab and the Muslims in general. But they refused its commands and instruction; so the Israelites are the terrorists in fact.

Now they have the riches and wealth, and they are aided by the European and American governments; so they have the self conceit, but this will not last forever, and their future is according to an Egyptian parable وقعتهم سودة مطينة بطين which means: their outcome is omenous.

 

[Just the Facts]

Now they have the riches and wealth, and they are aided by the European and American governments; so they have the self conceit, but this will not last forever, and their future is according to an Egyptian parable وقعتهم سودة مطينة بطين which means: their outcome is omenous.

They've also had the constant barrage of rockets raining down on them for almost ten years, lets not forget about that. Even today Hamas swears to eliminate the Jewish state. Not a good formula for peace.

I don't know the answer, but I'm curious, how does the annual per capita aid to Israel compare to the per capita aid to the Palestinians?

 

[eanassir]

Whatever you say, the work of the Israelites is exposed before all people, and their tricks like: the terrorism, and the stones of the Palestinians will not pass any more; all these are not any excuse to kill the Palestinians and besiege Gaza and other parts of Palestine.